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Old
05-06-2012, 10:41 AM
  #276
ChicagoBlues
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Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
Malkin traded to St. Louis? You guys must be smoking some potent herb.
"Pass the dutchie on the left hand side."

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05-06-2012, 10:45 AM
  #277
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Malkin

We called it a "pipe dream", didn't we?

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05-06-2012, 11:18 AM
  #278
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I agree that our top needs are a LD and a potential top line or very good 2nd line center. We have enough good wingers for 3 scoring lines. If Backes' line is our shut down line, we don't need a checking line other than the 4th line.

Here are a couple of top line or potential top line centers that might be available.

1) Paul Stastny - With the emergence of Duchene and O'Reilly, as well as Stastny's recent struggles and overpriced contract ($6.6MM/yr), he will likely be available. However, Colorado won't give him away, they are close to the cap floor, and they are probably looking for defense and goaltending. We don't make the best trade partners. I would ideally package Stewart for a center, but they aren't going to want him back. With our LD situation, I don't want to give up Cole because that just opens up another hole.

2) Jordan Staal - He is a UFA in a year. Pittsburgh would likely want defense, however. He'll likely get overpaid as a UFA. Do we really want to drop $5+MM/yr on a guy who has never scored more than David Backes in a season or let him walk one year after trading for him?

3) Ryan Getzlaf - He is one year away from UFA as well. However, the price would likely be too high.

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05-06-2012, 11:57 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
Malkin traded to St. Louis? You guys must be smoking some potent herb.
*looks at bowl*

*realizes it is still half full*

"Man, your right. This IS some potent stuff!"


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05-06-2012, 12:01 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by jmwc95 View Post
I agree that our top needs are a LD and a potential top line or very good 2nd line center. We have enough good wingers for 3 scoring lines. If Backes' line is our shut down line, we don't need a checking line other than the 4th line.

Here are a couple of top line or potential top line centers that might be available.

1) Paul Stastny - With the emergence of Duchene and O'Reilly, as well as Stastny's recent struggles and overpriced contract ($6.6MM/yr), he will likely be available. However, Colorado won't give him away, they are close to the cap floor, and they are probably looking for defense and goaltending. We don't make the best trade partners. I would ideally package Stewart for a center, but they aren't going to want him back. With our LD situation, I don't want to give up Cole because that just opens up another hole.

2) Jordan Staal - He is a UFA in a year. Pittsburgh would likely want defense, however. He'll likely get overpaid as a UFA. Do we really want to drop $5+MM/yr on a guy who has never scored more than David Backes in a season or let him walk one year after trading for him?

3) Ryan Getzlaf - He is one year away from UFA as well. However, the price would likely be too high.
If obtaining a top 6 center was easy, Toronto would have done it years ago.

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05-06-2012, 12:02 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmwc95 View Post
I agree that our top needs are a LD and a potential top line or very good 2nd line center. We have enough good wingers for 3 scoring lines. If Backes' line is our shut down line, we don't need a checking line other than the 4th line.

Here are a couple of top line or potential top line centers that might be available.

1) Paul Stastny - With the emergence of Duchene and O'Reilly, as well as Stastny's recent struggles and overpriced contract ($6.6MM/yr), he will likely be available. However, Colorado won't give him away, they are close to the cap floor, and they are probably looking for defense and goaltending. We don't make the best trade partners. I would ideally package Stewart for a center, but they aren't going to want him back. With our LD situation, I don't want to give up Cole because that just opens up another hole.

2) Jordan Staal - He is a UFA in a year. Pittsburgh would likely want defense, however. He'll likely get overpaid as a UFA. Do we really want to drop $5+MM/yr on a guy who has never scored more than David Backes in a season or let him walk one year after trading for him?

3) Ryan Getzlaf - He is one year away from UFA as well. However, the price would likely be too high.
Staal is interesting in that he is high risk but high reward.

He has never put up huge numbers but he is only 23 and was on pace for 65 points this year over a full season. He has also never been given much time on the power play which is a big reason why he has been held around 50 points a year for his career. He only averaged 1:59 a game on the PP this year and has usually been on the 2nd unit.

If you sign him for like 5 years, 25-30 million, you might end up getting one of the best bargains in hockey if he turns out to be a 65-70 point center or you might get a guy that is a little overpaid but is still perfect for the Blues because he is a big center that plays strong defense.

If I'm Army, I'd make a hard push to get Jordan Staal. That would also allow Army to move Berglund for a great young d-man down the road.

Chris Stewart would be an ideal addition for Pittsburgh. He would fit perfectly in their system.

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05-06-2012, 12:10 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
Staal is interesting in that he is high risk but high reward.

He has never put up huge numbers but he is only 23 and was on pace for 65 points this year over a full season. He has also never been given much time on the power play which is a big reason why he has been held around 50 points a year for his career. He only averaged 1:59 a game on the PP this year and has usually been on the 2nd unit.

If you sign him for like 5 years, 25-30 million, you might end up getting one of the best bargains in hockey if he turns out to be a 65-70 point center or you might get a guy that is a little overpaid but is still perfect for the Blues because he is a big center that plays strong defense.

If I'm Army, I'd make a hard push to get Jordan Staal. That would also allow Army to move Berglund for a great young d-man down the road.

Chris Stewart would be an ideal addition for Pittsburgh. He would fit perfectly in their system.
Not to mention that acquiring a top line center will have a trickle down effect, similar to LA adding Carter, or Nashville adding Radulov. Pushing others down in the line-up should help those players as well.

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05-06-2012, 12:27 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
Staal is interesting in that he is high risk but high reward.

He has never put up huge numbers but he is only 23 and was on pace for 65 points this year over a full season. He has also never been given much time on the power play which is a big reason why he has been held around 50 points a year for his career. He only averaged 1:59 a game on the PP this year and has usually been on the 2nd unit.

If you sign him for like 5 years, 25-30 million, you might end up getting one of the best bargains in hockey if he turns out to be a 65-70 point center or you might get a guy that is a little overpaid but is still perfect for the Blues because he is a big center that plays strong defense.

If I'm Army, I'd make a hard push to get Jordan Staal. That would also allow Army to move Berglund for a great young d-man down the road.

Chris Stewart would be an ideal addition for Pittsburgh. He would fit perfectly in their system.
I understand what you are saying here but I just dont see eye to eye with you here. The problem I have is that adding someone like Staal would not fill the need of the goal scoring forward in my opinion. Staal is like Backes in that he plays responsible defense and can still put the puck in the net while going up against top lines. Adding to the center position doesn't quite do what I would like to better the team. This would also push Berglund to the third line which will be bad for him but would also affect his trading value in the future (even though he is one of the guys I like to think of as "untouchable" due to the fact he will keep getting better)

I would like to see that top 2 LHD come in FA or a trade at the draft. This second round has been an eye opener for me and I agree with some previous comments about some of the players that are not needed anymore. Arnott and Langs, while I like them, will not both be needed next year and honestly we may not need either one depending on the Tarasenko situation. To me, Nichol has done what the veteran players are supposed to do and I think he is the one to keep out of those three. Keeping Huskins doesn't really hurt as we dont pay him much but Cola really needs to go.

I would like to see more play from Porter and Reaves with Nichol for our 4th checking line with Crombeen moving in and Porter possibly moving up to the 3rd line or switching out depending on his play. Schwarz and Tarasenko will add some flair and hopefully some scoring touch.

If, by midseason, we are still missing the goal scorer, we could address that but I really think that with the youth we have and the guys who got playoff experience this year, we dont need to make the splash at the forward position. I would like to see them stick with what we have and let our guys develop for a while next year before we really push for that top end, high pay sniper type player

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05-06-2012, 12:47 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by CitizenSnips View Post
I understand what you are saying here but I just dont see eye to eye with you here. The problem I have is that adding someone like Staal would not fill the need of the goal scoring forward in my opinion. Staal is like Backes in that he plays responsible defense and can still put the puck in the net while going up against top lines. Adding to the center position doesn't quite do what I would like to better the team. This would also push Berglund to the third line which will be bad for him but would also affect his trading value in the future (even though he is one of the guys I like to think of as "untouchable" due to the fact he will keep getting better)

I would like to see that top 2 LHD come in FA or a trade at the draft. This second round has been an eye opener for me and I agree with some previous comments about some of the players that are not needed anymore. Arnott and Langs, while I like them, will not both be needed next year and honestly we may not need either one depending on the Tarasenko situation. To me, Nichol has done what the veteran players are supposed to do and I think he is the one to keep out of those three. Keeping Huskins doesn't really hurt as we dont pay him much but Cola really needs to go.

I would like to see more play from Porter and Reaves with Nichol for our 4th checking line with Crombeen moving in and Porter possibly moving up to the 3rd line or switching out depending on his play. Schwarz and Tarasenko will add some flair and hopefully some scoring touch.

If, by midseason, we are still missing the goal scorer, we could address that but I really think that with the youth we have and the guys who got playoff experience this year, we dont need to make the splash at the forward position. I would like to see them stick with what we have and let our guys develop for a while next year before we really push for that top end, high pay sniper type player
We aren't going to be able to get any superstar PPG forwards next year. Our best hope is to put out 3 deep forward lines that all can score and rely on depth rather than a top end guy to provide the scoring. How did having top end guys help the Sharks? They got shut down and had no depth to back it up. We have 3 full lines of scoring line wingers. Shoot, you could actually say we have 4 lines if you included D'Agostini and Sobotka. We just need another center to go along with them. Pushing Berglund down to the 3rd line isn't going to hurt him at all if he's playing with the exact same wingers. Boston won the cup with 3 scoring lines. If we got Staal, our top 3 lines would be even better. Besides, Tarasenko and Schwartz both project to be top end guys anyway. I'd rather have my top end guys on entry level contracts.

Add up the goals. If you got Staal, this is what I would expect out of goalscoring next year:

Steen(20)/Backes(25)/Oshie(20)
Perron(25)/Berglund(20)/McDonald(25)
Schwartz(15)/Staal(25)/Tarasenko(20)
Sobotka(7)/UFA C(5)/Crombeen(3)

UFA LD(5)/Pietrangelo(12)
Cole (3)/Shattenkirk(9)
Russel(5)/Polak(2)

If you add up those numbers, that is 3 goals/game.

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05-06-2012, 12:59 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by bluemandan View Post
*looks at bowl*

*realizes it is still half full*

"Man, your right. This IS some potent stuff!"

I see I'm not the only one who loses himself. lol

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05-06-2012, 02:06 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by CitizenSnips View Post
I understand what you are saying here but I just dont see eye to eye with you here. The problem I have is that adding someone like Staal would not fill the need of the goal scoring forward in my opinion.

Staal has only been below 20 goals twice in his career, and only once when he's played more than 42 games(his sophomore year); and he's done that as a 3rd liner with very limited PP time. In a top 2 line role with PP time, the guy could easily clip 30 goals; especially in Hitchcock's system where the center is the primary goal scorer.


[quote] Staal is like Backes in that he plays responsible defense and can still put the puck in the net while going up against top lines.[quote]

Exactly.
Teams have a hard enough time finding ways to neutralize Backes, how are they going to neutralize Backes AND Staal(and even if they did, what would they do about Berglund in the 3rd wave).



Quote:
Adding to the center position doesn't quite do what I would like to better the team.
And this is where you completely lose me.
As it currently stands, we have Backes, Berglund and Sobotka as our centers next year. We need another center regardless(and don't bring up any of our "versatile" wingers; not one of them is a good fit at the position in this system). The only question is whether we should look for a top line center or a 4th line center.
IMO, Army should target a top line center; and Staal is tailor made for Hitchcock's system.


Quote:
This would also push Berglund to the third line which will be bad for him but would also affect his trading value in the future (even though he is one of the guys I like to think of as "untouchable" due to the fact he will keep getting better)
How would this be "bad for Berglund"?
He'd still get his PP time(Staal would slide into Arnott's slot on the PP, he would affect Berglund), he'd still have good wingers(likely Schwartz and Tarasenko) and he'd be going up against weaker opponents.
Berglund would be in a better position to produce offense if we were to grab Staal, and that would lead to a higher payday in the future.


Quote:
I would like to see that top 2 LHD come in FA or a trade at the draft.
And Staal would affect that how?
He's already under contract next year at 4 mil.
Just dropping Cola, Porter and Huskins gets you to that mark(leaving the Langenbrunner, Arnott and Stewart money to go after said D man, even if you subtract Tarasenko's ELC from that you'd have over 6 mil to spend on a top pairing D man).


Quote:
Arnott and Langs, while I like them, will not both be needed next year and honestly we may not need either one depending on the Tarasenko situation. To me, Nichol has done what the veteran players are supposed to do and I think he is the one to keep out of those three. Keeping Huskins doesn't really hurt as we dont pay him much but Cola really needs to go.

Why keep any of them?
If we were to bring in Staal, he would replace a lot of the leadership we'd be losing.
That gives you Staal, Backes, Berglund and Sobotka up the middle and almost 10 mil to grab 2 lefty D men.



Quote:
I would like to see more play from Porter and Reaves with Nichol for our 4th checking line with Crombeen moving in and Porter possibly moving up to the 3rd line or switching out depending on his play. Schwarz and Tarasenko will add some flair and hopefully some scoring touch.
Porter is a UFA and I doubt he comes back with Crombeen, Reaves and Grachev already signed as 4th line wingers.

McDonald (Staal) Perron
Steen Backes Oshie
Schwartz Berglund Tarasenko
Crombeen Sobotka Reaves
Grachev and D'Agostini as reserves.

All we need to do is get Tank signed and find a top line center.


Quote:
If, by midseason, we are still missing the goal scorer, we could address that but I really think that with the youth we have and the guys who got playoff experience this year, we dont need to make the splash at the forward position. I would like to see them stick with what we have and let our guys develop for a while next year before we really push for that top end, high pay sniper type player

1) Again, we need to find a center regardless. Arnott is going to walk as a UFA and he was a big part of our offense early in the year.

2) We need to figure out what we're doing about Stewart. You don't keep a guy that expensive for the 3rd line.

The logical thing to do is move Stewart for a center, and a deal for Staal would make a lot of sense for both teams. Stewart would give Crosby the winger he's been looking for and Staal is a perfect fit for Hitchcock's system. The money is practically even and it wouldn't hurt us in the future either.

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05-06-2012, 02:15 PM
  #287
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Don't get me wrong, I'd be very excited to acquire Staal and I agree about what it does for the lineup adding another two-way center. I think Stewart is not near enough. Given how few young top-two centers (with size) are available and their relative scarcity to quality wingers, other teams will be able to put strong offers on the table if Staal is really available. It might take an offer of Perron + Cole to get it done.

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05-06-2012, 06:28 PM
  #288
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Don't get me wrong, I'd be very excited to acquire Staal and I agree about what it does for the lineup adding another two-way center. I think Stewart is not near enough. Given how few young top-two centers (with size) are available and their relative scarcity to quality wingers, other teams will be able to put strong offers on the table if Staal is really available. It might take an offer of Perron + Cole to get it done.
I'd like to do it for Stewart, Cole and a 3rd Rounder. But I wonder if Pittsburgh would go for that?

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05-06-2012, 06:40 PM
  #289
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I'd like to do it for Stewart, Cole and a 3rd Rounder. But I wonder if Pittsburgh would go for that?
Unless they are desperate for Stewart, then I can't see it. More than half the teams in the League will be interested in Staal, and I expect at least 1 GM to put together a big package for him.

I'm not sure they would be interested in Cole. They have Després coming up full time next season, so even if they shift Martin they are still okay with Orpik, Niskanen and Després.

Stewart and Rattie is the minimum I could see him costing, maybe Stewart, Rattie & a second.

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05-06-2012, 06:44 PM
  #290
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You can look at why they lost this series and see that in Game 1 things were pretty even until the Pietrangelo hit. He's dazed, not allowed to get off the ice and gets disoriented on the SHG. Game 2 was a total loss of composure and failure to be resilient without their far and away best player. Game 3 was a **** show by Elliott, but also yet another poor one defensively. Game 4 there was no ability to clear the zone until the Kings decided to try and protect a lead. Whenever the game was tied, the Kings came in waves and the Blues couldn't clear their zone. They would have to spend third, fourth and fifth efforts just to get the puck out once.

Bottom line is if that's the case there is no way another quality center is going to make the difference. It's the D. People who point to them being #1 in the regular season defensively miss the reality that most teams can't bring pressure like the Kings brought this series. There were shifts and stretches of shifts during the regular season where the Blues allowed the forecheck to pile up on their defense but not very many. But it will ALWAYS happen in the playoffs. Inevitably, they will run into a playoff team that can do this. Teams will see that this is the key to beating the Blues. Therefore they need to add more quality on the blueline before they do anything else. If they could get the puck out of the zone the way the Kings did all series until they tried to protect the lead late in Game 4, their opponent will grow frustrated and start taking the reactionary penalties like the Blues took this series.

Jackman and Colaiacovo simply cannot handle playoff-paced pressure. Shattenkirk had a very rough playoff ride on this front but he's far younger than those other two and has time to learn. He needs time to remain a little sheltered and continue learning. They need serious help on defense or they will continue to lose series for the reason we saw them lose it this year.

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05-06-2012, 06:48 PM
  #291
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I think we definitely need to check out Yandle and see if he is available. If we can't get him, hopefully we go after Garrison early. The offense will be getting Tarasenko and Schwartz at a minimum, that is if Tarasenko comes over. Hopefully we can get one of the top available defensemen.

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05-06-2012, 06:57 PM
  #292
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I think we definitely need to check out Yandle and see if he is available. If we can't get him, hopefully we go after Garrison early. The offense will be getting Tarasenko and Schwartz at a minimum, that is if Tarasenko comes over. Hopefully we can get one of the top available defensemen.
I would still trade one of our wingers for a centerman. Come at them in 3 waves. Sign a LD (Garrison) and go with Cole. That would be plenty good on D during the regular season. If we need an upgrade to Cole in the playoffs, trade for one at the deadline.

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05-06-2012, 06:59 PM
  #293
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I posted this on the asylum...have at it:

Now that the season, a completely successful season is over lets see who you would sign from the UFA/RFA pool on our own Roster:

Chris Sterwart - RFA - 2.875MM
Jason Arnott - UFA - 2.875MM
Jaime Langenbrunner - UFA - 2.75MM
T.J. Oshie - RFA - 2.35MM
David Perron - RFA - 2.15MM
Scott Nichol - UFA - 700K
Chris Porter - UFA - 600K
Barrett Jackman - UFA - 3.625MM
Carlo Colaiacovo - UFA - 2.125MM
Kent Huskins - UFA - 1.00MM

Committed monies are ~36MM, Cap Space is ~28MM, Projected Cap (depending on new CBA) is ~64MM

Who walks, who retires, who do you re-sign, who do you use the freed up mony to go after. If you let Carlo & Huskins go and more to the payroll, Ryan Suter is a possibility. TJ Oshie will be re-signed at 2.5-ish possibly.

Any thoughts

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05-06-2012, 07:03 PM
  #294
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Did you meant to say Oshie at 2.5 or is that a typo for 3.5? 2.5 is not a possibility.

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05-06-2012, 07:09 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by BDEuph View Post
I posted this on the asylum...have at it:

Now that the season, a completely successful season is over lets see who you would sign from the UFA/RFA pool on our own Roster:

Chris Sterwart - RFA - 2.875MM
Jason Arnott - UFA - 2.875MM
Jaime Langenbrunner - UFA - 2.75MM
T.J. Oshie - RFA - 2.35MM
David Perron - RFA - 2.15MM
Scott Nichol - UFA - 700K
Chris Porter - UFA - 600K
Barrett Jackman - UFA - 3.625MM
Carlo Colaiacovo - UFA - 2.125MM
Kent Huskins - UFA - 1.00MM

Committed monies are ~36MM, Cap Space is ~28MM, Projected Cap (depending on new CBA) is ~64MM

Who walks, who retires, who do you re-sign, who do you use the freed up mony to go after. If you let Carlo & Huskins go and more to the payroll, Ryan Suter is a possibility. TJ Oshie will be re-signed at 2.5-ish possibly.

Any thoughts
Tender Stewart a qualifying offer.
Let Arnott, Langenbrunner, Nichol, Porter, Colaiacovo, Huskins, and Jackman walk.
Re-sign Oshie and Perron for 2-3 years/$3MM/yr.
Sign Tarasenko.
Sign Garrison (4 years, $4.75MM/yr, it's what it will cost).
Trade either Stewart, Oshie, or Perron in a package for a #1/2 C like Staal or Stastny.
Sign a depth defensman ($1.5MM, 1 year).
Sign a 4th liner (C or LW, 2 years, $3MM total).

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05-06-2012, 07:10 PM
  #296
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Also expect an official announcement in the next few days about ownership. I think they've been waiting til the season is over. It's one of those pieces of good news you save to cheer people up when they're disappointed. There hasn't been any particular need to be a distraction during the playoffs with that news.

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05-06-2012, 07:14 PM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Did you meant to say Oshie at 2.5 or is that a typo for 3.5? 2.5 is not a possibility.
I'm no expert, just throwing it out there, but you may be right, may take 3.5-4 ish.

I am fighting my Jackman fandom, but if he and Carlo walk, that could free some money for that to pairing D-man.

Could the D pairings be:

Petro - FA (Stuart, Suter, Bryan Allen, or any LD)
Russell-Polak
Shatty-Cole

Might not be enough experience on that lineup, but Cole needs to bring it com camp time to see if he was worth the 1st round pick.

Or do you use the freed up monies to go after a top 6 fwd.

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05-06-2012, 07:16 PM
  #298
Alklha
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Originally Posted by BDEuph View Post
I posted this on the asylum...have at it:

Now that the season, a completely successful season is over lets see who you would sign from the UFA/RFA pool on our own Roster:

Chris Sterwart - RFA - 2.875MM
Jason Arnott - UFA - 2.875MM
Jaime Langenbrunner - UFA - 2.75MM
T.J. Oshie - RFA - 2.35MM
David Perron - RFA - 2.15MM
Scott Nichol - UFA - 700K
Chris Porter - UFA - 600K
Barrett Jackman - UFA - 3.625MM
Carlo Colaiacovo - UFA - 2.125MM
Kent Huskins - UFA - 1.00MM

Committed monies are ~36MM, Cap Space is ~28MM, Projected Cap (depending on new CBA) is ~64MM

Who walks, who retires, who do you re-sign, who do you use the freed up mony to go after. If you let Carlo & Huskins go and more to the payroll, Ryan Suter is a possibility. TJ Oshie will be re-signed at 2.5-ish possibly.

Any thoughts
Perron and Oshie are going to cost in the region of $7m next season.

Huskins might be back as a depth guy, depends on whether on not there is someone else they like for that role.

I wouldn't be surprised if we let Jax walk. If Garrison wants out of Florida, how about trading the right to Jackman for the rights to Garrison

Stewart will almost certainly be traded.

The rest are gone.

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05-06-2012, 07:19 PM
  #299
BDEuph
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Perron and Oshie are going to cost in the region of $7m next season.

Huskins might be back as a depth guy, depends on whether on not there is someone else they like for that role.

I wouldn't be surprised if we let Jax walk. If Garrison wants out of Florida, how about trading the right to Jackman for the rights to Garrison

Stewart will almost certainly be traded.

The rest are gone.
Stewart is an RFA, but after this bad season, he's gonna get a pay cut, no one is going to tender him an offer above or near his current of 2.875

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Old
05-06-2012, 07:28 PM
  #300
PocketNines
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Originally Posted by BDEuph View Post
Stewart is an RFA, but after this bad season, he's gonna get a pay cut, no one is going to tender him an offer above or near his current of 2.875
You're using his cap number. He got paid 3.25M this year, and qualifying offer rules stipulate that if the RFA is making over 1M then you need to qualify him at 100% of his previous season's salary. So the QO will be 1yr, 3.25M. Based on how they handled the Oshie situation last year, I expect Armstrong to ask Stewart to play for that contract before they commit more money to him. Then it will be on Stewart. I can't envision the Blues offering more years or more dollars. He'll have from July 1 to July 5 to sign an offer sheet, and by July 5 he'd have to declare for arbitration. He can still let the arbitration deadline go by and see if an offer sheet arrives, and fall back on signing the QO.

This season 3.1M to 4.7M the compensation was a first and third round pick, and I would take that if I'm the Blues and someone signs him to a contract in that range. I could see some team offering him 2 years, 3.5M per year and him signing. That's not a crazy offer sheet.

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