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05-06-2012, 06:33 PM
  #301
BDEuph
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
You're using his cap number. He got paid 3.25M this year, and qualifying offer rules stipulate that if the RFA is making over 1M then you need to qualify him at 100% of his previous season's salary. So the QO will be 1yr, 3.25M. Based on how they handled the Oshie situation last year, I expect Armstrong to ask Stewart to play for that contract before they commit more money to him. Then it will be on Stewart. I can't envision the Blues offering more years or more dollars. He'll have from July 1 to July 5 to sign an offer sheet, and by July 5 he'd have to declare for arbitration. He can still let the arbitration deadline go by and see if an offer sheet arrives, and fall back on signing the QO.

This season 3.1M to 4.7M the compensation was a first and third round pick, and I would take that if I'm the Blues and someone signs him to a contract in that range. I could see some team offering him 2 years, 3.5M per year and him signing. That's not a crazy offer sheet.
Thanks for the clarification, I am just starting to learn the business portion of this now. Stewart may have to eat crow and get a "earn you contract" contract. Oshie did and he was a beast. I am curious how much money Tom will allow the org to spend...~60MM...should be enough with room to spare, no?

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05-06-2012, 06:38 PM
  #302
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There is no doubt that Stewart will get offersheets of $3.25m+, so he won't be getting a pay-cut next season. The Penguins would probably happily give up their 2013 1st and 3rd for him, the way the Flames work they probably would give him an offer too etc.

That is why he will be traded pre-draft, so we can have more of a say over the return we get.

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05-06-2012, 06:49 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDEuph View Post
Thanks for the clarification, I am just starting to learn the business portion of this now. Stewart may have to eat crow and get a "earn you contract" contract. Oshie did and he was a beast. I am curious how much money Tom will allow the org to spend...~60MM...should be enough with room to spare, no?
That's honestly why I thought you had just made a typo on the Oshie prediction because he made 2.35 on a one year deal and responded well. He didn't earn some ridiculous contract but probably just north of Steen (who's at 3.567M) and less than 4M.

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05-06-2012, 06:58 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by BDEuph View Post
Thanks for the clarification, I am just starting to learn the business portion of this now. Stewart may have to eat crow and get a "earn you contract" contract. Oshie did and he was a beast. I am curious how much money Tom will allow the org to spend...~60MM...should be enough with room to spare, no?
$60m in actual dollars spent?

McDonald - Backes - Oshie
Schwartz - Berglund - Perron
Steen - ????? - Tarasenko
Crombeen - Sobotka - Reaves
Grachev/D'Agostini

Cole - Pietrangelo
????? - Shattenkirk
Russell - Polak
?????

Halak
Elliott

That is $40.5m (+potential bonuses, with Oshie & Perron signed for $7m) in actual $ that we have committed for next season, with 3 roster spots. We won't get close to spending $60m next season unless we make a big move in free agency and heavily front load the contract.

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05-06-2012, 06:58 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
There is no doubt that Stewart will get offersheets of $3.25m+, so he won't be getting a pay-cut next season. The Penguins would probably happily give up their 2013 1st and 3rd for him, the way the Flames work they probably would give him an offer too etc.

That is why he will be traded pre-draft, so we can have more of a say over the return we get.
Two weeks from today the WCs end, so we'll know probably the week following what Tarasenko wants to do. The story about the November visit JD made to him in Finland discusses how aware he is about getting off to an early acclimatized start. There will be about a month between that news and the draft. Blues have either pick 24 or pick 25 depending on whether the Rangers advance.

I'd be quite happy trading Stewart to the Pens for this year's first and Scott Harrington. The Pens will pick 22 or 21 depending on the Rangers (assuming Phoenix advances). If they could then draft two players who have strong development years next year, during the season they can make a deadline add because their pipeline is still robust and stocked.

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05-06-2012, 07:03 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
$60m in actual dollars spent?

McDonald - Backes - Oshie
Schwartz - Berglund - Perron
Steen - ????? - Tarasenko
Crombeen - Sobotka - Reaves
Grachev/D'Agostini

Cole - Pietrangelo
????? - Shattenkirk
Russell - Polak
?????

Halak
Elliott

That is $40.5m (+potential bonuses, with Oshie & Perron signed for $7m) in actual $ that we have committed for next season, with 3 roster spots. We won't get close to spending $60m next season unless we make a big move in free agency and heavily front load the contract.
By 60MM, I mean 60 of the 64 mill of cap monies. In 11-12 the cap number for the blues was 54.8MM, Id like to see us spend about 5MM more if possible.

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05-06-2012, 07:20 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by BDEuph View Post
By 60MM, I mean 60 of the 64 mill of cap monies. In 11-12 the cap number for the blues was 54.8MM, Id like to see us spend about 5MM more if possible.
Even then, the above line up is only $47.5m in terms of caphit, with Tarasenko signing the max deal.

To get to $60m we'd have to get Suter, trade for Staal and then bring in that depth defenseman. I guess we can dream, but I think $60m in terms of the cap won't be happening next season.

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05-06-2012, 07:28 PM
  #308
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We can easily take on a big contract next season and have our payroll remain very close to what it is now.

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05-07-2012, 10:07 AM
  #309
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Have a safe and enjoyable summer everyone.

Great to read everyone's comments this season.

It was a great winter to be a Blues fan, one of the best in along time.

Thanks to everyone.

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05-07-2012, 10:22 AM
  #310
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The Blues have one legitimate top pairing d-man. I would also argue that their 2nd pairing d-man should be 3rd pairing. I am not as sold on Shatty as most. He needs to play with a strong LHD to help him out. Polak is a fine 3rd pairing dman. I would be fine with him and Cole on the 3rd. The Blues need 2 strong LHD for next year. This is where I spend my money. Need to bigger and stronger on D.

?/ Petro
?/ Shatty
Cole / Polak

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05-07-2012, 10:35 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
The Blues have one legitimate top pairing d-man. I would also argue that their 2nd pairing d-man should be 3rd pairing. I am not as sold on Shatty as most. He needs to play with a strong LHD to help him out. Polak is a fine 3rd pairing dman. I would be fine with him and Cole on the 3rd. The Blues need 2 strong LHD for next year. This is where I spend my money. Need to bigger and stronger on D.

?/ Petro
?/ Shatty
Cole / Polak
In fairness to me and the other members here I don't think most are sold on Shattenkirk. He had a little bit of a sophomore slump and got schooled in his first playoffs. Not sold on him, but he'll probably be fine.

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05-07-2012, 10:49 AM
  #312
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In fairness to me and the other members here I don't think most are sold on Shattenkirk. He had a little bit of a sophomore slump and got schooled in his first playoffs. Not sold on him, but he'll probably be fine.


Yeah, I am not saying get rid of him. Keep him on 2nd but pair him with somebody stronger.

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05-07-2012, 10:58 AM
  #313
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Yeah, I am not saying get rid of him. Keep him on 2nd but pair him with somebody stronger.
I'm with you.

He was pretty darned good in Game 4.

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05-07-2012, 11:14 AM
  #314
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Out of curiosity, whats with the lack of kris russell?

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05-07-2012, 11:14 AM
  #315
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Kimzey

The point I was making about Staal being like Backes is that we have those kind of players and in my opinion, we need a guy that we can lean on that will go out and get a goal (or two) when we need it most. Just because Staal 'could' get 30 goals doesn't mean he is the guy we can rely on when we need it most. Backes doesn't do that. I'm not trying to take away what any of those guys do, but it just doesn't do it for me and where I would like to see the Blues add next season. I agree that Staal is made for this system and would do very well here. If Tarasenko and Schwarz can pull together and become goal scorers like we needed Perron to be when he came back (and did fairly well) we should be fine with signing Staal.

For Berglund, I would like to see him continue to play in a line where he can play that puck control game that works to his advantage with guys like McDonald and Perron on his wings where he can be the front of the net presence or control the puck in the corner with shifty type wingers to feed the puck to before he goes right back to his spot. I would also like to see him continue to play on the PK as I felt he did quite well there this season. Putting him down on the third line would be fine if we can keep that formula but if we get him down there with Stewart/Langenbruner-type players, I think his performance will go down and so will his learning curve. Lets not forget he has only just finished his fourth season.

I thought Nichols play for the season was quite good and he brings those talents like top PKer and very good in the faceoff circle that our team really needs. Nichol and Sobotka played very well together on the PK and it would be a bummer to split them up.

Porter is another guy I would really like to keep. He has great speed and see's the ice very well. It isn't going to cost much to keep him so I see no reason to let him go. Grachev was the disappointment and Crombeen (even though I really like him) doesn't do much for the team. Reaves can play Crombeens spot better and with more energy. Crombeen and Grachev could have a little bit of value at the draft or as reserve players next year.

To sum up, I understand what you are saying and it wouldn't be the worst plan to move Stewart to pick up Staal and hit the UFA's for someone to play with Petrangelo but still need that scoring touch which is why I thought to see how Tarasenko and some others are doing at midseason before we go after someone. I feel the biggest need is to pick up the top LHD and see who walks before we trade the only asset I would like to see go (Stewart). It might make sense for Pittsburgh but I dont know what else we would have to look at giving them for Staal. Depending what it is, I would like to see some interest in a guy we can rely on putting the puck in the net when we need it most

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05-07-2012, 12:03 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by ManyIdeas View Post
Out of curiosity, whats with the lack of kris russell?
Russell could fit with Polak, as he was in this last series, and Cole can move up and pair with Shattenkirk, but would make for a very young 2nd pairing. Huge potential, but huge risks. Once we play out this scenario we see that inserting Russell into the top 6 D is not going to work very well unless Shattenkirk blows a tire or something and the defensemen carousel begins.

Mike Liut is right. Where would Russell fit? Pietrangelo needs a LHD stud, not Russell.

Shattenkirk could use some veteran, shut-down presence in his pairing, which is not Russell.

Polak and Cole makes the most sense at this point.

I see Russell getting traded. His value is pretty high.

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05-07-2012, 12:16 PM
  #317
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In that case, it makes complete sense. I just assumed we would put cole with shatty/pie and keep russell and polak together and bring in a top lhd.

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05-07-2012, 12:38 PM
  #318
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Honestly, i kind of want to keep Stewart. Maybe not give him a giant raise, but give him a one year contract, tell him he's got this season to prove he can make it, and see what he can do next year. He started showing up at the end of the playoffs a bit more than before.
I think he had an off year, but i hate to think what he could be if given the chance with some other team. The guy has a lot of skills, and with a summer to work on it, and work out, he could come back bigger and better next year.

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05-07-2012, 01:18 PM
  #319
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The only thing that Pietrangelo needs is a solid LHD, who compliments his game. That might be Cole, but I haven't seen that yet.

The difference between an elite-elite pairing and an elite-solid pairing is going to be nominal in terms of results. If we got someone like Suter, then I'm sure that Shattenkirk would be his partner.

The problem with a Cole-Polak pairing is that they are too similar. Cole-Shattenkirk is too young. Cole-Pietrangelo is the best bet, but it hasn't shown to be ideal. That is the problem with finding a place for Cole.

I think that Russell-Polak is probably the safest bet to be a pairing come the start of next season, but who knows.

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05-07-2012, 04:25 PM
  #320
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The only thing that Pietrangelo needs is a solid LHD, who compliments his game. That might be Cole, but I haven't seen that yet.

The difference between an elite-elite pairing and an elite-solid pairing is going to be nominal in terms of results. If we got someone like Suter, then I'm sure that Shattenkirk would be his partner.

The problem with a Cole-Polak pairing is that they are too similar. Cole-Shattenkirk is too young. Cole-Pietrangelo is the best bet, but it hasn't shown to be ideal. That is the problem with finding a place for Cole.

I think that Russell-Polak is probably the safest bet to be a pairing come the start of next season, but who knows.
You've touched upon an issue; Cole and Polak are too similar. However, we really don't know what the Blues have in Cole.

At least Cole does have some offensive upside, which somewhat balances that pairing. Cole's mind is kind of blown right now (or at least it seemed that way when he was on the ice for those two playoff games).

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05-07-2012, 04:42 PM
  #321
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Something to point out is that the Blues are not very big up front. Backes plays tough and Berglund has good size but after that Oshie, Steen and hopefully Tarasenko are forwards that compete every game but they are not big forwards. Many want to get rid of Stewart. I don't. The Blues are a good skating team but not a big team. I look forward to the new ownership and what Armstrong can get done over the off season.

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05-07-2012, 04:46 PM
  #322
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The Blues are a big team. Nearly every opposing announcer group would specifically comment on the Blues' size throughout the course of the season.

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05-07-2012, 04:47 PM
  #323
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Honestly, i kind of want to keep Stewart. Maybe not give him a giant raise, but give him a one year contract, tell him he's got this season to prove he can make it, and see what he can do next year. He started showing up at the end of the playoffs a bit more than before.
I think he had an off year, but i hate to think what he could be if given the chance with some other team. The guy has a lot of skills, and with a summer to work on it, and work out, he could come back bigger and better next year.
You are not the only one. I get why some others feel it maybe time to move him, but when he is on, he is really really hard to stop - physical, fast, great backhand... fights...

But, keeping him in a 3rd line role isn't ideal either. Playing with Sabotka helped him alot because Sabotka moves the puck well, the issue with Backes, Berglund is both tend to be shoot first and not the best vision. Which hurts Stewies game.

I like Russel, I think he plays very well in the dzone - and can handle the big forwards with speed. Uses his speed very well and has great vision. I would keep him in the bottom pairing. Much more useful on the PP then Cola ever was.

As for where to fit Cole. I would put him with Pie and really see how it goes. One game isn't enough to get an idea (especially in that situation - make it or break it) of what he can do. I really would have liked to see him play 8-10 games with Pie to develop chemistry. It takes awhile to do it, especially for young guys. Communication is so critical.

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05-07-2012, 05:01 PM
  #324
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The only complaint I've had about Cole has been his discipline. It's time to let the kid play. Don't sign Jackman unless we can't get an upgrade to pair with Shatty. Spread the talent out for depth and let Cole come into his own with one of the best in the game. Are we really going to complain about Cole more than we would Colaiacovo? I really doubt it. What does Colaiacovo do better than Cole? Cole is a much better skater, is good with keep-ins at the point, and makes very good reads on his pinches. I have NO idea what the lineup will look like up front though. Army and Hitch have a lot of work to do before, during, and after training camp to figure that out.

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05-07-2012, 05:11 PM
  #325
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As for where to fit Cole. I would put him with Pie and really see how it goes. One game isn't enough to get an idea (especially in that situation - make it or break it) of what he can do. I really would have liked to see him play 8-10 games with Pie to develop chemistry. It takes awhile to do it, especially for young guys. Communication is so critical.

We tried playing Cole with Pietrangelo earlier in the year(while Huskins and Cola were both out) over a stretch of 13 games.
Cole started out fine, but couldn't maintain his compete level after about 5 games. Cole needs to improve his stamina and his mental focus just a bit.

IMO putting Cole with Pietrangelo would not be a good idea. I think Cole still needs to get a bit of experience and he just isn't ready for the top pairing of a Cup contending team. IMO the best place for Cole next year is next to Shatty on the 2nd pairing. We already know the two have chemistry together(we saw that in 2010-2011) and Cole is pretty much exactly what we need to replace Jackman(more mobile and slightly more offense while not giving up too much in terms of defensive play and physicality). If Cole isn't cutting it, you give the Polak/Russell pairing a few more minutes to compensate.

For Pie's partner you want somebody that has proven he can handle a top 3 role and is capable of stepping up a level if injuries occur. Cole has a lot of upside, but he is just not ready for that kind of role just yet.

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