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Old
06-04-2012, 05:53 PM
  #776
Harley83
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If the Blues let go of Jackman who is going to be willing to bang it out down low in front of the crease? Cole, Shatty, Petro, Russell, Cola, nor Huskins play physical in front of the net to keep the opposition from piling up in front of Ells/Jaro. Being confrontational is a big part of the defenseman position and the Blues are seriously lacking in that department as it is. Why not pile in front of the net if you don't have to pay the price? Stuart, Suter, Salvador and Gleason are the only people who are within Jackman's skill level and price range and we can probably cross off Stuart, Suter, and Salvador. Salvador is going to probably get resigned by NJ, Stuart wants to go out west and Suter is gonna fill Lidstroms role in Det, Gleason could be a good possibility though. As much as the Blues want Suter so does 29 other teams. I'm for keeping Jackman to retain a stay-at-home, gritty defenseman. Free Agency is slim pickings for defenseman this year.

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06-04-2012, 05:57 PM
  #777
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I personally wouldn't have much interest in resigning Langenbrunner. He honestly seemed like he was just about done to me, watching him last year. He just seems like he isn't a good enough skater anymore to have a positive impact on any part of the game. Need younger, fresher legs there.

I understand what the Blues were trying to do bringing in Arnott and Langenbrunner last year, and being that the Blues won the division and made the 2nd round of the playoffs...you could even make a strong argument that it worked.

That said at this point players like Backes, Oshie, Perron, Berglund would all be considered seasoned veterans. They know what it takes to win, they don't need a guy who is on the downside of his career to tell them.

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06-04-2012, 06:04 PM
  #778
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The chances of Langenbrunner returning took a big blow with Tarasenko agreeing to come over. Just a numbers game. The caveat is we don't know what trades, if any, may go down before July 1 that would affect the number of bodies on the wing. Even if you assign Schwartz to the minors there will still be 10 wings who won't be sent down (nine on one-way contracts plus Tarasenko). They need to start four centers and that's 14 forwards.

IF they sign Langenbrunner, I'd take that as a major sign they intend to use one of their current wingers to fill Arnott's spot.

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06-04-2012, 06:06 PM
  #779
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Harley, If the Blues let Jackman go they would do so with the understanding that the player(s) they add to the defensive group need to be capable of playing a physical, defense first kind of game.

On the other hand, this is what Ian Cole has always been projected to be. A solid stay at home defenseman, who has adequate skating and outlet passing. Whether or not it materializes in the NHL, who knows.

Also Kent Huskins is a UFA and I would be surprised if any team signs him to an NHL contract. Colaiacovo is also a free agent and I'd be shocked if the Blues resigned him.

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06-04-2012, 06:24 PM
  #780
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At this point in the offseason, I'd say sign Chris Kelly (3yr, 7.8M) and Jason Garrison (5yr, 25M) as the ideal plan and you're pretty much done. Allow Barret Jackman to walk. Re-sign Scott Nichol to a 1yr 700K deal, let all the other UFAs go.

Perron–Backes–Oshie
McDonald–Berglund–Tarasenko
Steen–Kelly–Stewart
Sobotka–Nichol–Reaves
Crombeen, D'Agostini

Garrison-Pietrangelo
Cole-Shattenkirk
Russell-Polak
7th

Halak/Elliott

Money is very doable unless the budget is being cut from this season.


Last edited by PocketNines: 06-04-2012 at 06:33 PM.
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06-04-2012, 07:14 PM
  #781
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I'm curious as to why most think Schwartz will start in the AHL next year.

Numbers game? Not strong enough? Something else?

I know he didn't crack the playoff roster, but I figured that had more to do with experience than skill level.

I just don't see how the AHL will help him? With a full off season of training I see no reason why he won't start this season with the parent club. He has the skill, he just didn't play enough to make enough of an impact. He had 3pts in 7 games, not terrible, but his offensive talent was quite obvious. I just think starting him in the AHL is just going to slow his development or maybe not progress fast as he could. He definitely has a skill set this team could use, playmaking ability.

The biggest thing is that if he cracks the opening day roster, we will have to move a few pieces. Although I wonder if Army and Hitch would put Oshie or Mac at center?

Steen-Backes-Mac/Oshie
Perron-Berglund-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Oshie/Mac-Stewart
Sobotka-Nichol/McRae-Reaves

I would like to see the Blues sign Garrison, pencil in Cole and trade for Backlund from Calgary, he would be a great pickup for our 3rd line center and go with that lineup into season.

Steen-Backes-Mac
Perron-Berglund-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Backlund-Oshie
Sobotka-Nichol-Reaves

That leaves out Stewart and Dags. Both would be great trade pieces. Although I would not move Stewart for Backlund, maybe a package with Dags as a piece or something with Rattie(who I don't really want to move yet). Just an idea. I would still like to move Stewart for a partner for Petro.

Petro-??
Shattenkirk-Garrison
Polak-Cole
Russell

And have a dominant top 4,

But most likely

Petro-Garrison
Shattenkirk-Cole
Polak-Russell
FA 7th

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06-04-2012, 07:20 PM
  #782
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For me pure numbers game and AHL is better for him than being the 13th or 14th. He'd be the very first callup on a skill injury. If they trade a winger, I'd expect to see Schwartz up with the Blues. The instant the Blues do such a thing (or we start hearing rumblings about one of the wingers moving to #3C) I'll plug Schwartz back in. I'm also on board with the Backlund idea.

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06-04-2012, 07:29 PM
  #783
Crumblin Erb Brooks
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Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
Ditto
Why? What has Phil McRae ever done? Not saying he doesnt have a future, but he hasnt exactly set the world on fire in Peoria the last two seasons. He certainly shouldnt be penciled in front of guys who have a lot of NHL experience, at least until he shows what he can do in camp.

Not saying McRae wont continue to grow as a player, but he hasnt done **** yet.

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06-04-2012, 07:39 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by Crumblin Erb Brooks View Post
Why? What has Phil McRae ever done? Not saying he doesnt have a future, but he hasnt exactly set the world on fire in Peoria the last two seasons. He certainly shouldnt be penciled in front of guys who have a lot of NHL experience, at least until he shows what he can do in camp.

Not saying McRae wont continue to grow as a player, but he hasnt done **** yet.
McRae's at a little bit of an early crossroads in his career. Last year was uneven and could be described as a bit of a stalling out of what had been somewhat steady progress toward the NHL. It's only one year and it wasn't all negative, but he really has to make some improvement if he has a future with the Blues. This is the last of his 3 ELC years. So far he hasn't shown enough to be trusted with an NHL spot (particularly on a deep roster). However, a strong offseason and a strong start to this next year and suddenly I think everyone's feeling a lot better about his future. We're not in Brett Sonne territory yet with him.

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06-04-2012, 07:43 PM
  #785
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as i go back and watch the tarasenko and schwartz draft repays...i just want to thank jarmo for all of his first rounders of the past few years

johnson, cole, petro, eller, schwartz and tarasenko

thats a lot of hits with first rounders...much more than other franchises can say

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06-04-2012, 07:46 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
At this point in the offseason, I'd say sign Chris Kelly (3yr, 7.8M) and Jason Garrison (5yr, 25M) as the ideal plan and you're pretty much done. Allow Barret Jackman to walk. Re-sign Scott Nichol to a 1yr 700K deal, let all the other UFAs go.

Perron–Backes–Oshie
McDonald–Berglund–Tarasenko
Steen–Kelly–Stewart
Sobotka–Nichol–Reaves
Crombeen, D'Agostini

Garrison-Pietrangelo
Cole-Shattenkirk
Russell-Polak
7th

Halak/Elliott

Money is very doable unless the budget is being cut from this season.
How about signing Jay McClement as our 4th line centre? Bigger, younger than Nichol.

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06-04-2012, 07:48 PM
  #787
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Perron/Backes/Oshie
AMac/Berglund/Tarasenko
Steen/Sobotka(new 3c)/Stewart
Porter/Nichol/Reaves
dags/schwartz/crombeen

this would be the best set up imo. I'm of the impression we need to lock down that as a 4th line and move pieces of the top 9(stewart)/extra(dags) variety to get a LH Dman. Of course I'm not sure what potential 3Cs are going to be UFA if we want to do that, and I doubt Porter would want to be a backup again if we signed a 3c and sobotka played LW on the 4th. But for the time being, I don't see room for Schwartz unless hes on a line with backes/oshie or if steen/amac were on the 3rd line with him, which just doesnt seem efficient.

MysteryPartner/Pie
cole/shatty
russell/polak
random depth person(fairchild?)

saw fairchild in the oilers game this past year and he seemed a little lost. wouldnt be a bad idea to make him "the new Cole" i guess.

Either way, cant wait for NHL13 to play around with be a gm mode for a while with the new rosters.

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06-04-2012, 07:52 PM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
McRae's at a little bit of an early crossroads in his career. Last year was uneven and could be described as a bit of a stalling out of what had been somewhat steady progress toward the NHL. It's only one year and it wasn't all negative, but he really has to make some improvement if he has a future with the Blues. This is the last of his 3 ELC years. So far he hasn't shown enough to be trusted with an NHL spot (particularly on a deep roster). However, a strong offseason and a strong start to this next year and suddenly I think everyone's feeling a lot better about his future. We're not in Brett Sonne territory yet with him.
Definitely agree with this. If he wants to make it to the NHL, he needs to develop more physically and defensively. His CHL/AHL stats are very similar to that of Dwight King, if he can become more of a physical presence, he could certainly turn into an effective bottom 6 player. I think he has more than enough skill to be a 3rd/4th line guy, but he needs to develop grit, toughness, and defensive ability to get one of those spots. That is what Hitch is going to want from a player playing in that spot.

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06-04-2012, 08:11 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Crumblin Erb Brooks View Post
Definitely agree with this. If he wants to make it to the NHL, he needs to develop more physically and defensively. His CHL/AHL stats are very similar to that of Dwight King, if he can become more of a physical presence, he could certainly turn into an effective bottom 6 player. I think he has more than enough skill to be a 3rd/4th line guy, but he needs to develop grit, toughness, and defensive ability to get one of those spots. That is what Hitch is going to want from a player playing in that spot.
He is pretty good at faceoffs and has the skill and talent to be our #4 center currently. He still could have the upside to be a #2 guy but most likely will be a 3rd line center in the NHL that is good at faceoffs.

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06-04-2012, 08:19 PM
  #790
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Cole is a better than average skater, much better than adequate.

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06-04-2012, 09:14 PM
  #791
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I think if McRae continues to grow and develops more physically, he could have a decent shot at being the 4th line center. He is already good at faceoffs and good enough size, so if he can add a little more muscle while still being able to skate, I'd like to see him compete for the 4th line center spot.

He might not develop an NHL offensive game, so if he only plays 8-10 minutes a game, it would be that big of a deal, but at the same time he will be functional in the offensive zone, unlike other 4th line options.

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06-04-2012, 09:50 PM
  #792
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
If the Blues let go of Jackman who is going to be willing to bang it out down low in front of the crease? Cole, Shatty, Petro, Russell, Cola, nor Huskins play physical in front of the net to keep the opposition from piling up in front of Ells/Jaro. Being confrontational is a big part of the defenseman position and the Blues are seriously lacking in that department as it is. Why not pile in front of the net if you don't have to pay the price? Stuart, Suter, Salvador and Gleason are the only people who are within Jackman's skill level and price range and we can probably cross off Stuart, Suter, and Salvador. Salvador is going to probably get resigned by NJ, Stuart wants to go out west and Suter is gonna fill Lidstroms role in Det, Gleason could be a good possibility though. As much as the Blues want Suter so does 29 other teams. I'm for keeping Jackman to retain a stay-at-home, gritty defenseman. Free Agency is slim pickings for defenseman this year.
Cole can be physical, too. Actually he tends to get called for some stuff that maybe a more established player would get away with. Polak is physical. I don't think replacing Jackman with Cole loses much in the way of physicality....but I do appreciate Jackman's grit.

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06-04-2012, 09:50 PM
  #793
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McClement was dealt to Colorado from St. Louis with Erik Johnson, I would have liked to keep Johnson around for size in the back but I though McClement wanted too much for what little he offered.

Nichol is much better all-around than McClement in my opinion because of intensity, veteran leadership and face-off percentages. Plus I think he could do a really good job taking Schwartz under his wing. I see Schwartz getting a lot of time with the Blues this year. Two goals with a late season entry at age 19 is really impressive at the NHL level.

Cole and Polak are physical but they don't engage in the gritty style of play as much (smashing players in the back down low and making them afraid to be there) basically the confrontational part of the position. I think a couple seasons at the pro level and Cole might be a little more open to that style of play. Think of the kind of play that Chris Pronger has made a career out of. An in-your-face pest that isn't afraid to defend his goaltender. Jackman offers a lot in that department that the Blues just don't seem to have anymore.


Last edited by Harley83: 06-04-2012 at 10:03 PM.
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06-04-2012, 09:51 PM
  #794
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I think if McRae continues to grow and develops more physically, he could have a decent shot at being the 4th line center. He is already good at faceoffs and good enough size, so if he can add a little more muscle while still being able to skate, I'd like to see him compete for the 4th line center spot.

He might not develop an NHL offensive game, so if he only plays 8-10 minutes a game, it would be that big of a deal, but at the same time he will be functional in the offensive zone, unlike other 4th line options.
IMO his best offensive ability is his shot. Granted it takes so much more than just a good shot to score a goal; Brad Winchester has a good shot, doesnt mean he ever gets the shot off. And Im not sure McRae has great offensive instincts. But still, I could see him being a 10-15 goal guy throughout his career. I just dont see much more than that though. But if that is your offensive ceiling, you have to have other dimensions to your game if you are going to want to stick in the NHL.

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06-04-2012, 09:54 PM
  #795
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If the Blues let go of Jackman who is going to be willing to bang it out down low in front of the crease? Cole, Shatty, Petro, Russell, Cola, nor Huskins play physical in front of the net to keep the opposition from piling up in front of Ells/Jaro. Being confrontational is a big part of the defenseman position and the Blues are seriously lacking in that department as it is. Why not pile in front of the net if you don't have to pay the price? Stuart, Suter, Salvador and Gleason are the only people who are within Jackman's skill level and price range and we can probably cross off Stuart, Suter, and Salvador. Salvador is going to probably get resigned by NJ, Stuart wants to go out west and Suter is gonna fill Lidstroms role in Det, Gleason could be a good possibility though. As much as the Blues want Suter so does 29 other teams. I'm for keeping Jackman to retain a stay-at-home, gritty defenseman. Free Agency is slim pickings for defenseman this year.

Gleason re-signed(4yr-16m) with Carolina.

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06-04-2012, 09:58 PM
  #796
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At this point in the offseason, I'd say sign Chris Kelly (3yr, 7.8M) and Jason Garrison (5yr, 25M) as the ideal plan and you're pretty much done. Allow Barret Jackman to walk. Re-sign Scott Nichol to a 1yr 700K deal, let all the other UFAs go.

Perron–Backes–Oshie
McDonald–Berglund–Tarasenko
Steen–Kelly–Stewart
Sobotka–Nichol–Reaves
Crombeen, D'Agostini

Garrison-Pietrangelo
Cole-Shattenkirk
Russell-Polak
7th

Halak/Elliott

Money is very doable unless the budget is being cut from this season.
That's a realistic outlook. However, with the new ownership there's a bit of a wildcard. If the team salary supports it, Suter definitely addresses the team's biggest need. Frankly, Suter + Cole won't be that much more money than Colaiacovo plus Jackman earned.

I've really warmed up to the notion of Garrison, though. I think he's a great fit for the Blues. And it allows the team to deal a winger in a package for a top 6 center (I'm picturing more of a legit 1B/2A guy somewhere between Backes and Berglund, pushing Berglund to the 3rd line (or to really establish himself like we haven't seen consistently before).

That type of move could happen anyway, but I would prefer to see the Blues fill out the defense without having to trade assets.

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06-04-2012, 10:04 PM
  #797
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IMO his best offensive ability is his shot. Granted it takes so much more than just a good shot to score a goal; Brad Winchester has a good shot, doesnt mean he ever gets the shot off. And Im not sure McRae has great offensive instincts. But still, I could see him being a 10-15 goal guy throughout his career. I just dont see much more than that though. But if that is your offensive ceiling, you have to have other dimensions to your game if you are going to want to stick in the NHL.
I agree, which is why I think he should have a shot at the 4th line. Might as well use him for his strengths now instead of developing what isn't there. He has size and is a potential faceoff ace; a couple things we are in need of. If he can play physical on the NHL level and improve his skating, he could be a solid piece next season.

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06-04-2012, 10:07 PM
  #798
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But if someone does happen to open Polak's door... Well now that's a different story.

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06-04-2012, 10:09 PM
  #799
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The wildcard to the offense will be how Schwartz performs in camp. If he goes out and scores, and impresses management, I'm not sure how he can be denied a roster spot.

I still think Perron gets moved.

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06-04-2012, 10:16 PM
  #800
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I could see Perron getting moved because of his last two years on the injured reserved at a young age. The Blues already have another talented high-dollar left-winger with concussion problems. I remember Andy Mac and David Perron being injured at the same time and the Blues having to bring up Stefan Della Rovere from Peoria.

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