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Old
06-04-2012, 10:20 PM
  #801
bleedblue1223
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
I could see Perron getting moved because of his last two years on the injured reserved at a young age. The Blues already have another talented high-dollar left-winger with concussion problems. I remember Andy Mac and David Perron being injured at the same time and the Blues having to bring up Stefan Della Rovere from Peoria.
I don't think Perron will get moved because of his concussion. That actually has nothing to do with my thinking.

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06-04-2012, 10:38 PM
  #802
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No, that's my thinking a 24 year-old high dollar winger that has only played 67 regular season games in the past two years is hard to look into the long-term. Between Steen, McDonald, and Perron all being injury prone at the left-wing position it can make for a bad season from high dollar players while Steen and McDonald are both under contract and Perron being a free agent

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06-04-2012, 10:44 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
No, that's my thinking a 24 year-old high dollar winger that has only played 67 regular season games in the past two years is hard to look into the long-term. Between Steen, McDonald, and Perron all being injury prone at the left-wing position it can make for a bad season from high dollar players while Steen and McDonald are both under contract and Perron being a free agent
McDonald is the only true injury prone player of the bunch. Perron has had 1 injury, and Steen has averaged 76 games per season during his career.

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06-04-2012, 11:33 PM
  #804
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Now that Tarasenko is committed, the Stewart discussion probably heats back up. Let's say he signs his QO of 1yr 3.25M. A year from now he'll be in exactly the same boat, with the only difference being he's one year from UFA. Having a tough time envisioning his contract being up at the same time Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Russell, Cole, Berglund and McDonald's are up and even if he had a solid year being trusting in wanting to commit a contract to him that buys some UFA years. Thinking about the scenarios and it's hard to see them not trading him at some point. I'd be very happy swapping him to Washington for the 16th pick if that deal is available. The Caps have the 11th and are losing Semin, so they might prefer to go this route rather than duke it out in UFA for winger talent. Then the Blues take one of Finn, Koekkoek, Lindholm or Girgensons with that pick, and possibly Laughton with the 25th.

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06-04-2012, 11:41 PM
  #805
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Now that Tarasenko is committed, the Stewart discussion probably heats back up. Let's say he signs his QO of 1yr 3.25M. A year from now he'll be in exactly the same boat, with the only difference being he's one year from UFA. Having a tough time envisioning his contract being up at the same time Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Russell, Cole, Berglund and McDonald's are up and even if he had a solid year being trusting in wanting to commit a contract to him that buys some UFA years. Thinking about the scenarios and it's hard to see them not trading him at some point. I'd be very happy swapping him to Washington for the 16th pick if that deal is available. The Caps have the 11th and are losing Semin, so they might prefer to go this route rather than duke it out in UFA for winger talent. Then the Blues take one of Finn, Koekkoek, Lindholm or Girgensons with that pick, and possibly Laughton with the 25th.
That would work for me, especially if the Blues could get Girgensons with that 16th pick... he's been compared to Rod Brind'Amour, who has always been one of my favorite Blues and favorite players of all time, and a one-two punch of Girgensons and Laughton in the center pipeline would be very nice to have.

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06-05-2012, 12:24 AM
  #806
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
McDonald is the only true injury prone player of the bunch. Perron has had 1 injury, and Steen has averaged 76 games per season during his career.
Career stats don't reflect more recent injuries. 57 Games for Perron this year in the regular season and 10 the season before. Steen played 43 this season and 68 the season before. Andy Mac played 25 this year and 58 the year before. They all play left wing and have a lot of money tied up on their contracts. Once the concussion symptoms start each hit is a brutal one, Marc Savard and Sidney Crosby are perfect examples of that.

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06-05-2012, 12:56 AM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
Career stats don't reflect more recent injuries. 57 Games for Perron this year in the regular season and 10 the season before. Steen played 43 this season and 68 the season before. Andy Mac played 25 this year and 58 the year before. They all play left wing and have a lot of money tied up on their contracts. Once the concussion symptoms start each hit is a brutal one, Marc Savard and Sidney Crosby are perfect examples of that.
Each concussion is different, and Perron has had not negative side effects since returning, unlike Savard and Crosby. Steen has traditionally been durable.

Just because you were recently injured doesn't mean you are injury prone. If the trend continues next season, then I'd agree, but Perron and Steen are not injury prone.

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06-05-2012, 01:22 AM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
That would work for me, especially if the Blues could get Girgensons with that 16th pick... he's been compared to Rod Brind'Amour, who has always been one of my favorite Blues and favorite players of all time, and a one-two punch of Girgensons and Laughton in the center pipeline would be very nice to have.
I'd want to do it before the draft, that we would could have the possibility of trading up for a guy we are really high on.

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06-05-2012, 02:40 AM
  #809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
Career stats don't reflect more recent injuries. 57 Games for Perron this year in the regular season and 10 the season before. Steen played 43 this season and 68 the season before. Andy Mac played 25 this year and 58 the year before. They all play left wing and have a lot of money tied up on their contracts. Once the concussion symptoms start each hit is a brutal one, Marc Savard and Sidney Crosby are perfect examples of that.
Plenty of guys have had a serious concussion and then come back to never have another one. I really don't see how the team can base personnel moves off this.

McDonald is the one guy that seems to be more fragile in this way (though he withstood a hit that broke his helmet in the playoffs....so maybe that's overstated too).

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06-05-2012, 03:17 AM
  #810
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Why is Perron considered injury proned? It makes no sense. He had ONE injury. Before that he put together 3 straight perfectly healthy seasons IIRC.

He's fine. Any other player on our team that hasn't had a concussion yet has the same chance of getting hit and acquiring one as Perron does really.

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06-05-2012, 11:03 AM
  #811
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
Why is Perron considered injury proned? It makes no sense. He had ONE injury. Before that he put together 3 straight perfectly healthy seasons IIRC.

He's fine. Any other player on our team that hasn't had a concussion yet has the same chance of getting hit and acquiring one as Perron does really.
I don't think most Blues fans do consider Perron injury prone. Maybe just one or two vocal ones. He had one brutal concussion, and came back and proved to be durable so far.

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06-05-2012, 04:27 PM
  #812
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He's made 57 regular season games this year and 10 the season before at only age 24. I'm not saying it would make complete sense to let him go because he is a really talented player who offers a lot but I wouldn't go signing him to a long-term contract until he can at least make a 75 game season again. Concussion symptoms have plagued and retired some of the best and GM's are aware of this when negotiating contracts. Marc Savard is going to get paid from the Bruins for another six years and will probably never touch the ice again.

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06-05-2012, 05:02 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
He's made 57 regular season games this year and 10 the season before at only age 24. I'm not saying it would make complete sense to let him go because he is a really talented player who offers a lot but I wouldn't go signing him to a long-term contract until he can at least make a 75 game season again. Concussion symptoms have plagued and retired some of the best and GM's are aware of this when negotiating contracts. Marc Savard is going to get paid from the Bruins for another six years and will probably never touch the ice again.
Ok you need to stop with this 57-game and 10-game argument. It's not like he had two injury riddled seasons. It was one injury. He has had no setbacks so why would he not be able to play 75 games? He just played 57 and then 9 playoff games without any problems so that's 66 right there.

It's a non-issue.

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06-05-2012, 05:11 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
He's made 57 regular season games this year and 10 the season before at only age 24.
I believe you misunderstand.

He only played 57 games this year because Perron wanted to ensure his comeback he played as many games as his number just to drive home how impressive he can be.


Quote:
Marc Savard is going to get paid from the Bruins for another six years and will probably never touch the ice again.
Do you honestly believe Savard is really a comparable situation?

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06-05-2012, 06:20 PM
  #815
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FWIW, I took the temperature of Caps reaction to 16th for Stewart in their team mock thread and got the idea they'd be very much open to it.

I dont think 16th + 25th gets you more than late top 10 and those deals still happen fairly rarely (I'm sure plenty of Caps fans have proposed trading both 11th and 16th for a higher pick and have gotten lukewarm responses at best). This is ok, as I'd love the Blues to draft two first-round talents and keep the pipeline pumping. Remember, they got Tarasenko at 16. Not saying there's anyone like him but a smaller/medium budget team needs to keep turning out top draft picks if it's going to have a long competitive window. Pietrangelo is our version of Lidstrom where if he stays for his whole career then the other parts can ebb and flow and they'll be a contender as long as they have him.

Anyway, that's one Stewart deal I'd happily do.

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06-05-2012, 06:25 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
FWIW, I took the temperature of Caps reaction to 16th for Stewart in their team mock thread and got the idea they'd be very much open to it.

I dont think 16th + 25th gets you more than late top 10 and those deals still happen fairly rarely (I'm sure plenty of Caps fans have proposed trading both 11th and 16th for a higher pick and have gotten lukewarm responses at best). This is ok, as I'd love the Blues to draft two first-round talents and keep the pipeline pumping. Remember, they got Tarasenko at 16. Not saying there's anyone like him but a smaller/medium budget team needs to keep turning out top draft picks if it's going to have a long competitive window. Pietrangelo is our version of Lidstrom where if he stays for his whole career then the other parts can ebb and flow and they'll be a contender as long as they have him.

Anyway, that's one Stewart deal I'd happily do.
Agreed - I'd do that deal too. And I've also been a proponent of keeping the pipelines full. As a team that can't spend to the cap, we have to be very adept at managing our prospects and players. It needs to be like a cycle - when some players get too expensive for us or if we deem them to be expendable, we should try to get a return from them if we can (via trade). But one item that makes them expendable is the ability to replace them from within via prospects.

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06-05-2012, 06:32 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
He's made 57 regular season games this year and 10 the season before at only age 24. I'm not saying it would make complete sense to let him go because he is a really talented player who offers a lot but I wouldn't go signing him to a long-term contract until he can at least make a 75 game season again. Concussion symptoms have plagued and retired some of the best and GM's are aware of this when negotiating contracts. Marc Savard is going to get paid from the Bruins for another six years and will probably never touch the ice again.
Wow Perron has had 1 injury in his career that made him miss most of last season and part of this season. Other wise he has been one of our healthiest players. He seems to have recovered 100% from that injury that injury is not a concern anymore. He has taken hits they did not cause him to have another concussion. So unless he suffers an illegal hit directly to his head I have not worries nor does anyone but you it seems.

Ask yourself why are you the only one that is worried about him having another concussion. I personally think the long length of time missed for that concussion is a much better approach and I think he will be less likely to get another one due to recovering 100%.

After returning he has played every single game with no sign of the injury having any ill effects currently.

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06-05-2012, 06:36 PM
  #818
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Savard only had one prior concussion until his career ending one.

I'm seriously not trying to ruffle feathers here. I'm just saying that his contract negotiations with St. Louis could be argued by his thirteen month absence from concussion problems especially at a young age. He is a talented player who brings a lot to the table but the LW position has been pretty thin this season and the couple before with injuries and like all franchises they have long-term sustainability in mind and that is an issue to all GM's.

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06-05-2012, 07:14 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by tfriede2 View Post
Agreed - I'd do that deal too. And I've also been a proponent of keeping the pipelines full. As a team that can't spend to the cap, we have to be very adept at managing our prospects and players. It needs to be like a cycle - when some players get too expensive for us or if we deem them to be expendable, we should try to get a return from them if we can (via trade). But one item that makes them expendable is the ability to replace them from within via prospects.
I kinda liken the Blues player management system to that of the Tampa Bay Rays or the Marlins. Build through the draft, compete for a few years with those players while they're cheap, then sell them once they can no longer afford them. Get cheap high end talent in return. (the deal that always comes to mind is Josh Beckett for Hanley Ramirez) Rinse. Repeat.

I hope the Blues have a better shot at keeping their core intact, but once alot of these core players get closer to becoming free agents, I think quite a few of them will be moved. It sucks, but it goes with the territory of being a low revenue team. Yet people cry when ticket prices go up, and they will continue to increase just to keep this team together, not even to go out and land the big FA prizes.

I wouldn't be opposed to trading Stewart for the Caps 1st rounder, but I would rather shoot for their 11th and package it with our pick(25th) to move up a few spots and draft Reinhart. Big, defensively sound, LEFT handed dman, great shot, not super physical though and who is maybe one season away from the bigs. Out side of the big 3 forwards and Murray/Dumba, Griffen is the player I've wanted since the beginning of the season. Kids this years Dougie Hamilton, albeit a little less upside on the offensive side. But he still has the opportunity to put up 65pts in juniors which is more than Petro did. Maybe I'm a little delusional, but I believe he has as much upside as the other defenseman in this draft.

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06-05-2012, 07:21 PM
  #820
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Savard only had one prior concussion until his career ending one.

I'm seriously not trying to ruffle feathers here. I'm just saying that his contract negotiations with St. Louis could be argued by his thirteen month absence from concussion problems especially at a young age. He is a talented player who brings a lot to the table but the LW position has been pretty thin this season and the couple before with injuries and like all franchises they have long-term sustainability in mind and that is an issue to all GM's.
The money Perron gets will be tempered by the fact he doesn't have the numbers to back up a certain $ amount. Depending on how far away the sides are, that might result in Perron taking a 1 year prove it deal.

Also, if a concussion is handled correctly, then you are no more susceptible to get another concussion than any other player on the ice. Perron was handled correctly. The medical facts are known by the team, and will have been spelt out by specialists... so no, there won't be any worries about giving him a long term deal on that front.

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06-05-2012, 08:10 PM
  #821
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I'm not all that sold on a mid 1st round pick in this draft. We have had pretty good scouting and results over the past few years, but this draft class seems to take a drop after the top 10 or so. I'm sure we could find a future NHLer, but even in the mid 1st, I don'd think they will be all that of an impact.

Moving Stewart for a 1st would be an absolute last resort IMO. It's not like we are short on draft picks like we were before the lockout.

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06-05-2012, 09:52 PM
  #822
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Stewart looked good when the Blues first picked him up he played aggressive, finished checks, screened the goal and had high intensity. He's definitely got all of the tools and is a scrapper to boot but this year he just seemed really unmotivated until he got benched. Does anyone feel that him getting benched in the playoffs could possibly reflect his future in St. Louis? I know many agree that Arnott might not be back after his anger with being benched.

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06-05-2012, 11:22 PM
  #823
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For those interested in the concussion discussion might want to read this link.
http://www.cdc.gov/concussion/pdf/Fa...sion_TBI-a.pdf


As for wether someone who has had a concussion is more susceptible, I was told by my doctor that after I received my concussion that there was a chance that I would be more susceptible in the future. BUT, she said there is more research in the reoccurrence of concussions during the recovery period. THose chances are 3-6 times greater. Thus, makes sure you heal up before you head to the mosh pit.

Found in the above link...
Quote:
Those who have had a concussion in the past are also at risk of having another one and may find that it takes longer to recover if they have another concussion.
^ That is pretty vague, but its probably the most direct you will see. I don't think there is a great deal of evidence to solidify anything beyond concussion susceptibility after recovery.

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06-06-2012, 12:42 AM
  #824
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For those interested in the concussion discussion might want to read this link.
http://www.cdc.gov/concussion/pdf/Fa...sion_TBI-a.pdf


As for wether someone who has had a concussion is more susceptible, I was told by my doctor that after I received my concussion that there was a chance that I would be more susceptible in the future. BUT, she said there is more research in the reoccurrence of concussions during the recovery period. THose chances are 3-6 times greater. Thus, makes sure you heal up before you head to the mosh pit.

Found in the above link...


^ That is pretty vague, but its probably the most direct you will see. I don't think there is a great deal of evidence to solidify anything beyond concussion susceptibility after recovery.
The thing with concussions and obviously more serious ones are that anything could cause symptoms to come back. No matter how many times Perron has been injured, hes had his first concussion and it was serious. A hit on him that may not even look to be serious could have serious repercussions. For the sake of the arguements, I guess maybe its better to say he is concussion prone?

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06-06-2012, 01:28 AM
  #825
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IMO, if we're going the futures route in a potential trade, then we should be getting back a known (and quality) prospect already developing in someone's pipeline if we move Stewart. I believe his NHL track record, upside, age, and contract status should make him worth decidedly more than a mid-first draft pick to some teams.

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