HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Your 2012-2013 St. Louis Blues

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-08-2012, 04:35 AM
  #926
Novacain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
Things for which I would trade Stewart without a moment's hesitation:
  • A top pairing defensive defenseman
  • A legit 1C (in a package deal)
  • A top-10 pick this year
  • A 2013 1st round pick from a bottom-5 team this year

Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced that the Blues *really* need a third line center like Stoll, and I certainlly wouldn't be willing to pay $3m+ for one. Go no-holds-barred on a #1 LHD and/or a #1 C, IMO, and fill the third line center position with whomever we can.
Name a No.1 C we can get at a reasonable price. And don't say Staal, becuase there will probably be a bidding war if Pittsburg does decide to move him, AND he's not actually a No.1 C imo. The dude doesn't exist.

We are a team built on depth, and overpaying for someone has no real interest to me.

Novacain is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 11:57 AM
  #927
Harley83
Registered User
 
Harley83's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
Stewart needs to spend months watching game film of Big Walt in his prime. He needs to learn to play in front of the net. Hell, he can also watch Backes on a nightly basis too. There is no reason he shouldn't play like Backes. I love Backes, but he isn't some special talent, he just works his ass off, hits everything that moves and plays in front of the net.
I agree with everything in that statement. I would rather see a roster full of people like Backes and Nichol that give it 100% all of the time and have an a good work ethic rather than have people like Stewart and Arnott that have lots of talent but look unmotivated while playing at the pro-level. I don't look for Arnott to return this year and I see that being on both sides. Big Walt is a good example of someone who could put up the points and someone who didn't have a problem answering the bell to protect his teammates. Stewart can offer a lot in that style of play: not being afraid to screen the goal, banging in rebounded pucks and he definitely has above-average scrapping skills.


Last edited by Harley83: 06-08-2012 at 12:10 PM.
Harley83 is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 02:42 PM
  #928
aceoutdoor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 64
vCash: 500
The only impressive thing I saw THIS season out of Stewart was his backhand shot.

aceoutdoor is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 03:07 PM
  #929
Chojin
Tiny Panger...
 
Chojin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,514
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacain View Post
Name a No.1 C we can get at a reasonable price. And don't say Staal, becuase there will probably be a bidding war if Pittsburg does decide to move him, AND he's not actually a No.1 C imo. The dude doesn't exist.

We are a team built on depth, and overpaying for someone has no real interest to me.
Hey, I didn't say that one was available. I only said that I'd trade him in a package for a #1 C.

Chojin is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 04:04 PM
  #930
BleedBlue42
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Would probably take a Perron-Staal type trade to make that happen so that the third line becomes Schwartz-Berglund-Tarasenko. Schwartz is skilled enough to play in the NHL right now and would ordinarily crack the roster but there might be a numbers game where his is the only two-way contract that can reasonably be sent down. Still plenty of things to shake out and having Schwartz and Tarasenko on the same line would be exciting to see whenever it happens.
This might have been addressed earlier, but I'm still curious. Why would we need a Perron-Staal type trade to occur in order for Schwartz and Tarasenko to be on the same line? With Arnott most likely gone, and possibly D'Agostini (draft day trade bait?) or Crombeen scratched, can't we just insert Schwartz and Tarasenko, without trading away any of our players?

BleedBlue42 is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 04:07 PM
  #931
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,736
vCash: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredBrathwaite View Post
This might have been addressed earlier, but I'm still curious. Why would we need a Perron-Staal type trade to occur in order for Schwartz and Tarasenko to be on the same line? With Arnott most likely gone, and possibly D'Agostini (draft day trade bait?) or Crombeen scratched, can't we just insert Schwartz and Tarasenko, without trading away any of our players?
Schwartz is behind Perron, McDonald, and Steen on the depth chart. Unless someone from the right is traded and one of those 3 moves over to the other side, or one of them moves to center, Schwartz will start in Peoria.

bleedblue1223 is online now  
Old
06-08-2012, 04:34 PM
  #932
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredBrathwaite View Post
This might have been addressed earlier, but I'm still curious. Why would we need a Perron-Staal type trade to occur in order for Schwartz and Tarasenko to be on the same line? With Arnott most likely gone, and possibly D'Agostini (draft day trade bait?) or Crombeen scratched, can't we just insert Schwartz and Tarasenko, without trading away any of our players?
Pretty much what bleedblue said. The reasoning being if that line happens it's probably a third line, not a second line, given the LW depth (Schwartz isn't ready to be #2 on that depth chart, and the original comment was that's a line the poster wanted to see starting off the season). If it's a third line then the Blues acquired a center to push Berglund down. Best guess is Staal. Be very surprised if Stewart went for Staal, and if Oshie goes for Staal then Tarasenko is probably a top-two line RW which also interferes with the likelihood of that line. Hence, a deal around Perron for Staal both pushes Berglund down to the third and doesn't push Stewart down – they wouldn't want to pair Stewart with Berglund for obvious reasons of that being a disaster this year and Berglund not being someone who'll reliably distribute the puck to Stewart. That's how I arrived at the comment. Difficult to start the year off with that being a likely combo otherwise. Doesn't have to be Perron for Staal but it probably has to be one of McDonald, Perron or Steen for a top-two center and of that group Perron has the biggest trade value.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 05:01 PM
  #933
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 8,993
vCash: 50
Is there any merit to the idea of moving Steen to center?

2 Minute Minor is online now  
Old
06-08-2012, 05:06 PM
  #934
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,736
vCash: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Is there any merit to the idea of moving Steen to center?
Could be worth a look. He did win over 55% of his faceoffs last season.

bleedblue1223 is online now  
Old
06-08-2012, 05:13 PM
  #935
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 8,993
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Could be worth a look. He did win over 55% of his faceoffs last season.
The reason I wonder about this is that it gives the Blues an opportunity to put their 9 best forwards in the top 3 lines, without requiring a trade partner to materialize. And I think he'd be effective there. The biggest downsides are: you break up the Backes-Steen top line combo. You also are relying on two rookies in the top 9 regular rotation.....but these aren't exactly two normal rookies.

2 Minute Minor is online now  
Old
06-08-2012, 05:17 PM
  #936
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,736
vCash: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
The reason I wonder about this is that it gives the Blues an opportunity to put their 9 best forwards in the top 3 lines, without requiring a trade partner to materialize. And I think he'd be effective there. The biggest downsides are: you break up the Backes-Steen top line combo. You also are relying on two rookies in the top 9 regular rotation.....but these aren't exactly two normal rookies.
I think having the opportunity of having your 3 best defensive forwards on each of the top 3 lines would be an intriguing one. I've always kind of wondered if Steen could succeed as a center with us, so I wonder if this is something management would consider. Steen is also good enough to push Berglund, and maybe take his spot on the 2nd line if he transitions well to the middle.

bleedblue1223 is online now  
Old
06-08-2012, 05:20 PM
  #937
Dolph Ziggler
#TeamZiggler Captain
 
Dolph Ziggler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 11,447
vCash: 380
Family friend appraised the house of Chris Stewart yesterday as he's putting it on the market.

He's putting it on the market because he just bought a new one in the STL area. Sure sounds like a guy who is planning on sticking around.

Dolph Ziggler is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 05:22 PM
  #938
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,736
vCash: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
Family friend appraised the house of Chris Stewart yesterday as he's putting it on the market.

He's putting it on the market because he just bought a new one in the STL area. Sure sounds like a guy who is planning on sticking around.
It would be hilarious if he signs a cheaper multi year deal and he rebounds.

bleedblue1223 is online now  
Old
06-08-2012, 05:35 PM
  #939
Novacain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,061
vCash: 500
Can we retire faceoff percentage as a reason for a guy to play Center please? I saw countless times last year when wingers were at the circle while the center was on the wing for the faceoff, and went back to being the center after it was over. And I don't mean after a guy was thrown out either. There is no rule saying Centers have to be the one who takes the faceoff.

Novacain is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 05:37 PM
  #940
TK 421
Donut Squad
 
TK 421's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,567
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlweir View Post
TK421,

What evidence do you need? Stewart was a 28 goal scorer the previous two years. If you saw the even strength goal scoring numbers he scored the same number of even strength goals as Backes and I'm sure Backes had at least a couple of empty netters. Oshie only scored one more even strength goal. Stewart is 24 not 34. His skills haven't eroded. Conditioning had little to do with his season. I believe after having a poor year and seeing what Arnott does he decided to change his diet and go on more of an extensive work out regiment. A very sensible thing to do.

On another note trading Stewart for a mid first round pick is a big gamble. For one, the draft choice at best won't be able to contribute for at least 2 years and there is no guarantee that whoever they pick will pan out. Stewart is a proven goal scorer and a good fighter. We'll see what happens.
Something to counter the season long Marty Rucinsky vacation he just took would be a good start.

He scored 28 goals in back to back seasons mostly playing in Colorado in an entirely different situation than what he's in here. Wouldn't a better projection be closer to what he just put up since the personnel won't be changing drastically? Stewart had golden opportunities with Perron, McDonald and Steen all missing significant chunks of season and didn't capitalize. With competition even stiffer this coming season it only gets more difficult for him and he certainly won't get any where near the same gift wrapped opportunities with Tarasenko and Schwartz in the picture.

Like everyone else I hope he rebounds and proves me wrong, but it's much easier for me to hope Army trades him than to have faith in him at this point.

TK 421 is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 05:40 PM
  #941
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,736
vCash: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacain View Post
Can we retire faceoff percentage as a reason for a guy to play Center please? I saw countless times last year when wingers were at the circle while the center was on the wing for the faceoff, and went back to being the center after it was over. And I don't mean after a guy was thrown out either. There is no rule saying Centers have to be the one who takes the faceoff.
Well I'm pretty sure Steen started out as a center before he came to St. Louis.

bleedblue1223 is online now  
Old
06-08-2012, 05:42 PM
  #942
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 8,993
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacain View Post
Can we retire faceoff percentage as a reason for a guy to play Center please? I saw countless times last year when wingers were at the circle while the center was on the wing for the faceoff, and went back to being the center after it was over. And I don't mean after a guy was thrown out either. There is no rule saying Centers have to be the one who takes the faceoff.
Face-off percentage was not the reason I suggested the notion of Steen at Center. Its a legitimate question, so don't just toss out the idea without giving some rational discussion other than dogmatic statements. Please.

2 Minute Minor is online now  
Old
06-08-2012, 05:50 PM
  #943
Alklha
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 9,479
vCash: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacain View Post
Can we retire faceoff percentage as a reason for a guy to play Center please? I saw countless times last year when wingers were at the circle while the center was on the wing for the faceoff, and went back to being the center after it was over. And I don't mean after a guy was thrown out either. There is no rule saying Centers have to be the one who takes the faceoff.
Which is a fair point to a certain degree. Where it falls down is the fact that I don't think any of our wingers are very capable faceoff guys, they are all going to be in the low 40% range.

If we did have someone capable, then moving Steen to center would become somewhat more realistic. Steen might have had 55% last year, but that was a very small sample size, with 300+ he would likely be 45% at best.

Alklha is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 06:25 PM
  #944
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 500
The reason Steen is so effective at wing, however, is that while the center gets back defensively first, there's a winger in our system who stays forward and tries to interrupt the breakout. Steen's excellent at this. He's one of the most intelligent players on the roster with excellent hockey sense. He is a total thorn as a forechecker. He gets into passing lanes, he forces the other team's outlet in an awkward direction, he steals the puck. Playing as a winger in this system allows Steen to excel. It's not that he couldn't do the tasks required of a center, but more that he's so perfect as the first winger forward in Hitchcock's system. I wouldn't want to tinker with that.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 07:27 PM
  #945
Ignore42me*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 172
vCash: 500
Im not sure if anyone else heard this, maybe i was dreaming. I remember hearing Bob McKenzie say that if Suter does not re-sign for the Preds, that he doesnt expect Weber to re-sign there either. How sick would it be if we got Weber to play with Pietrangelo?

Ignore42me* is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 08:34 PM
  #946
EastonBlues22
Mod Supervisor
Team ϶(o)ϵ
 
EastonBlues22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,780
vCash: 500
I agree with both 2MM and PocketNines on this one. Out of all the current top 9 wingers, I think Steen is the best suited to play center under Hitchcock in this system. He's great in 1-on-1 battles and along the boards, plays extremely well in the defensive zone, and is a shoot-first player in the offensive zone who has no problems going to the net.

The downside is exactly what PocketNines said, he and Oshie are far and away the best wingers we have at disrupting the other team's transition game in the offensive zone. I think I also remember hearing somewhere once that he wasn't quite as comfortable in the middle of the ice as he was on the wings, but that was awhile ago and I have nothing firm backing that recollection up.

EastonBlues22 is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 09:09 PM
  #947
TK 421
Donut Squad
 
TK 421's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,567
vCash: 500
Steen is slow on his reads at center and has never looked comfortable there to me. I'd prefer they either go with Oshie(whom I love as a center) or outside the organization completely.

And what is with this re-signing Langenbrunner stuff? Are we not full to bursting with wingers already?

TK 421 is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 09:18 PM
  #948
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 500
....


Last edited by PocketNines: 06-08-2012 at 09:22 PM. Reason: trying to get the image fixed
PocketNines is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 09:23 PM
  #949
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 500
Below is the Blues' 11-12 Player Usage Chart. It's a good graphical display, though it doesn't always tell the whole story. Colaiacovo and Perron being the two biggest standouts for me, more on that in a moment.

The higher a player's name, the tougher the competition he plays against. The farther to the right, the more sheltered he is from having to play defense. So, someone low and to the right plays against 3d and 4th lines and is on the ice for more offensive zone faceoffs than defensive zone faceoffs.

What the blue/white dots represent is positive (blue) or negative (white) net shots on goal for or against the team while that player is on the ice. It's not measuring the success of the shots; it's measuring the quantity taken by the opposition versus the quantity taken by the Blues.

Top left blue bubbles represent an elite player. Datsyuk has a huge one, Bergeron has a nice one, Jordan Staal has a nice one, and Backes and Oshie have virtually identical top left blue bubbles. It means that even though they're trusted to take the crucial defensive zone faceoffs, they drive the play forward.

Bottom right white bubbles represent the truly awful players in the league, guys like Parros, Janssen, Bollig and Anthony Stewart. Interestingly, Tomas Holmstrom has a horrendous low, right, big white bubble himself.

If you are top left and have a white bubble, that's not terrible unless the bubble is big; you're playing the best players in the league and starting in your own zone frequently at a disadvantage. All things being equal, the shots ratio should skew a bit against you. A small white bubble is ok (e.g., Jackman's is actually pretty decent), a big one is still bad (Robyn Regehr has a big-ass white bubble). On the other hand, if you're playing against good competition but you have the advantage of more offensive zone starts, a small blue bubble is about average. Anything white means even though the play starts in the offensive zone when you're out there, yeah, there's decent opposition but the play is still running against you. The lower you start to descend on the competition quality line, the worse and worse a white bubble looks if you are over on the right.

Perron and Colaiacovo. Because this system severly punishes the more accurate shooters, Perron's bubble is white. The guy shot 18.4% this year and is a career 13.8% shooter. So this player usage system is always going to make him look worse than he is. I'd mostly disregard his white bubble for that reason; the guy is a positive player. As for Colaiacovo, his bubble I attribute almost entirely to the pairing with Pietrangelo. Think of what Todd Rierden's bubble would have looked like when he was +50 or whatever paired with Pronger. Probably wouldn't have represented Rierden's real value. Thought it was funny in the analysis that one of the writers was "shocked" at Colaiacovo's bubble and speculated that he'd be a very good pickup for some team. Anyone paired with Pietrangelo is going to be blue. Frankly, with a different partner Pietrangelo should be a hell of a lot bigger blue.

Obviously someone like Schwartz or Grachev who saw limited minutes is going to have a bubble we can't really put a lot of faith in just yet.

Blues 11-12 Usage Chart.png

Sorry the image is a bit small but if you click on it you can see it larger.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
06-09-2012, 02:33 AM
  #950
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 8,993
vCash: 50
PN, how is "quality of competition" defined?

2 Minute Minor is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:51 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.