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04-16-2012, 03:42 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by bluemandan View Post
Hmm, I remember McKee being decently regarded and signing a big contract in St. Louis. I remember he didn't bring enough to the table to justify the contract. Maybe he wasn't brought in to be a top-pairing guy, but I seem to remember him being brought in to be a defensive defenseman to pair with EJ (who then went to college instead).

Again, I'm not saying that I don't WANT Garrison. I'm just worried about overpaying for him. Not only because of that contract, but because of how it will affect the contract negotiations with other players over the course of the contract.

For some reason I was thinking Parise was a RW, my mistake.
Yeah but McKee was an elite draft pick who became exclusively a shot blocker and had one phenomenal playoffs for Buffalo. At that time, the Blues were the bottom of the NHL barrel and had to overpay to get any UFA to consider coming to St. Louis. Garrison is an all-around two way defender, huge minutes, any pairings, knows how to jump up into a play and unleash a ridiculous shot. I don't want them to overpay either. But it's really not analagous to compare what Garrison's skillset is with what McKee's was.

Parise can play some RW but has spent more time at LW. In either event, the Blues have to put one of their LWs on the right side as is, plus they'll have Oshie and probably Tarasenko there next year (and if no Tarasenko and they re-sign Stewart then it gives them fewer dollars to bid on Parise). So the wings are just overloaded right now.

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04-16-2012, 03:45 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Meatwagon View Post
I really like Gormley as a prospect, but do you really want to hand over a first pairing spot to a rookie on what should be a S.C. contending team?

That would be a sizable risk, even with him playing with Petro. Just seems like that might be asking to much from him.
With the way Shattenkirk has played defensively, Gormley could play with him on the 2nd pairing.

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04-16-2012, 03:46 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Meatwagon View Post
I really like Gormley as a prospect, but do you really want to hand over a first pairing spot to a rookie on what should be a S.C. contending team?

That would be a sizable risk, even with him playing with Petro. Just seems like that might be asking to much from him.
It's a fair point, but he really is the full package, and like Petro has gone back for two years of junior. Some of this is just not knowing what they're doing with Cole. Gormley definitely >> Cole. He's probably the likeliest (along with maybe Despres) defender as we sit here today ready to make a seamless transition to the NHL and not look like a rookie.

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04-16-2012, 04:14 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
It's a fair point, but he really is the full package, and like Petro has gone back for two years of junior. Some of this is just not knowing what they're doing with Cole. Gormley definitely >> Cole. He's probably the likeliest (along with maybe Despres) defender as we sit here today ready to make a seamless transition to the NHL and not look like a rookie.
I agree if the Blues land him he would be above Cole on the depth chart, at worst equal. It's just that if we are going to move the necessary pieces it would take to trade for him, I would want to be sure I was getting a immediate return on my investment. Long term it would be a no brainier, just would be concerned about next year.

Now IF we could land Garrison for 5yrs for 22-24, I would be all over it. He might/will get more, I would just be cautious handing out huge contracts, I only wonder if handing out a contract over Backes' might rub some the wrong way. Especially a contract like Suter, then we are setting a financial precedent for Petro, he has to be locked up long term, and the sooner the cheaper. We all saw what kind of stupid money Doughty got, I just hope the Blues are a little more prudent than that. And thus far, they have given no indication that they won't.

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04-16-2012, 05:13 PM
  #105
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Do you all think Garrison will sacrifice $ for term? Or term for $? Or wait until Suter signs to max both?

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04-16-2012, 05:28 PM
  #106
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I think there's no reason Florida wouldn't want to sign him or that he wouldn't give Florida first crack. In any event, before UFA there'll be a lot more talk about Garrison and what some teams might offer, so until that all shakes out we're just guessing.

Players will want both money and term and when you're one of two top UFA dmen and lots of teams want you there's not any particular built-in incentive to sacrifice either until you hear how the bidding goes. If a bunch of teams are interested in Suter it follows a bunch of teams have a need for a guy like Garrison, the only question is cost.

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04-16-2012, 07:45 PM
  #107
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This offseason is going to be insanely interesting (and I hope very short as well).

Things to keep an eye on off the top of my head:
*The impact new ownership will have on the team moving forward
-Operation budget
-Organization leadership changes(?)
-Organization philosophy changes(?)
*What happens with Tarasenko
*What happens with Stewart
*How the Blues approach Free Agency
*How the Blues approach the Draft
*Trade speculation
*Roster construction questions:
-What happens at LD (Jackman, Cole, etc.)
-How the Blues address their bottom 6 Center positions

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04-16-2012, 07:45 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Meatwagon View Post
I agree if the Blues land him he would be above Cole on the depth chart, at worst equal. It's just that if we are going to move the necessary pieces it would take to trade for him, I would want to be sure I was getting a immediate return on my investment. Long term it would be a no brainier, just would be concerned about next year.

Now IF we could land Garrison for 5yrs for 22-24, I would be all over it. He might/will get more, I would just be cautious handing out huge contracts, I only wonder if handing out a contract over Backes' might rub some the wrong way. Especially a contract like Suter, then we are setting a financial precedent for Petro, he has to be locked up long term, and the sooner the cheaper. We all saw what kind of stupid money Doughty got, I just hope the Blues are a little more prudent than that. And thus far, they have given no indication that they won't.
Precisely the reason I don't see the Blues signing any big free agents. There are too many of their own players they have to lock up first.

Unless new ownership brings lots of fresh cash to the table - which doesn't seem likely.

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04-16-2012, 08:28 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by execwrite View Post
Precisely the reason I don't see the Blues signing any big free agents. There are too many of their own players they have to lock up first.

Unless new ownership brings lots of fresh cash to the table - which doesn't seem likely.
I have to believe that free agency will hinge on what they do with Stewart. If they re-sign him, then they will go cheap on D.

If they trade him, I believe, it will be for a comparable defenseman. Or they may move him at the draft to land a prospect that's worth trading him for. I really want Reinhart!

Looking at the UFA market is depressing, so they will almost with certainty not be adding impact players through that route.

So that leads me to believe, just a personal opinion, that they go after a big time RFA trade like a Marc Staal (just an example) or try to find a change of scenery type d man to play with Petro.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Blues sell the farm to land a Kulikov type player (who would be perfect, but is highly unlikely). If they sign Garrison maybe he becomes to expensive for Florida to re-sign, which would be the mistake of the year. Maybe second to the top teams passing on Couturier.

Really for me the Blues need three things next year:

A third line center, I don't think we will see Arnott back.

Tarasenko.

And a partner for Petro, which at this point seems like the hardest piece to land.

It should be a very intriguing offseason, but outside of Tank signing, we need the ownership fiasco settled or it will be another year of financial concerns and the perpetual what ifs. I just want an offseason with a stable ownership and a new Russian sniper, is that too much to ask?

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04-17-2012, 12:12 AM
  #110
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What about Oduya? Obviously not first choice, but he seems like he can shoulder top line minutes. Of course, depends on salary/length.

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04-17-2012, 08:54 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by wilco5886 View Post
What about Oduya? Obviously not first choice, but he seems like he can shoulder top line minutes. Of course, depends on salary/length.
Brad Stuart would be someone I would look at also - always good to take someone away from the Wings and love his game - very nasty. I guess the big questions is do we want someone who plays physical or is a puck mover paired w/ Pie. Adding a little paste would be good, but a puck mover may mean less hits due to transitioning the puck up the ice quickly. Toss Allen in there also as someone to look at.

Shatty and Cole played together for team USA and had some chemistry last year. What about moving Jackman into that role and bringing in a depth player with experience?

Further, am I the only one that would keep Langenbrunner over Arnott. I know we are loaded at wing, but that guy can play any where and not look out of position. Plus he plays a hard gritty game all the time and show a lot of leadership. Arnott, while better much offensively, just flat out looks slow.

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04-17-2012, 10:08 AM
  #112
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as far as the halak/elliot thing goes, i think they both want to win and both UNDERSTAND that they make each other better goalies. they could really both be considered a #1 goalie after the bounce-back season elliot has had but i think they like the situation they are in here, for now.

im also going float an idea out there and im kinda playing devils advocate on this one. we all know that cola is not good enough to play top line minutes and allow petro to play HIS game, however, i think our solution could be currently on our team. jax and shatty play well together so let them. cole has shown some good hockey sense and shown the exact opposite at times as well. maybe try out polak with petro for a few months instead of blowing 5-7 mil on a FA dman. he is one of the most puck responsible players on the team and shows on a nightly basis he can provide constant stability. it seems to me that this move could allow him to really play HIS style of game. after all, look how he plays with russell and imagine if that was petro. this could allow cole to ease into his game with russell and play some more serious minutes at the NHL to get a much more solid take on where his ceiling is.

im not saying i wouldn't like to go out and spend some money on a great top pairing defensive d-man but until the ownership thing gets worked out, we are going to have to settle for things like this.

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04-17-2012, 10:19 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenSnips View Post
as far as the halak/elliot thing goes, i think they both want to win and both UNDERSTAND that they make each other better goalies. they could really both be considered a #1 goalie after the bounce-back season elliot has had but i think they like the situation they are in here, for now.

im also going float an idea out there and im kinda playing devils advocate on this one. we all know that cola is not good enough to play top line minutes and allow petro to play HIS game, however, i think our solution could be currently on our team. jax and shatty play well together so let them. cole has shown some good hockey sense and shown the exact opposite at times as well. maybe try out polak with petro for a few months instead of blowing 5-7 mil on a FA dman. he is one of the most puck responsible players on the team and shows on a nightly basis he can provide constant stability. it seems to me that this move could allow him to really play HIS style of game. after all, look how he plays with russell and imagine if that was petro. this could allow cole to ease into his game with russell and play some more serious minutes at the NHL to get a much more solid take on where his ceiling is.

im not saying i wouldn't like to go out and spend some money on a great top pairing defensive d-man but until the ownership thing gets worked out, we are going to have to settle for things like this.
Cole and Russell are both left-handed.
Petro and Polak are both right-handed.

Not sure if that would work.

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04-17-2012, 12:51 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenSnips View Post
as far as the halak/elliot thing goes, i think they both want to win and both UNDERSTAND that they make each other better goalies. they could really both be considered a #1 goalie after the bounce-back season elliot has had but i think they like the situation they are in here, for now.

im also going float an idea out there and im kinda playing devils advocate on this one. we all know that cola is not good enough to play top line minutes and allow petro to play HIS game, however, i think our solution could be currently on our team. jax and shatty play well together so let them. cole has shown some good hockey sense and shown the exact opposite at times as well. maybe try out polak with petro for a few months instead of blowing 5-7 mil on a FA dman. he is one of the most puck responsible players on the team and shows on a nightly basis he can provide constant stability. it seems to me that this move could allow him to really play HIS style of game. after all, look how he plays with russell and imagine if that was petro. this could allow cole to ease into his game with russell and play some more serious minutes at the NHL to get a much more solid take on where his ceiling is.

im not saying i wouldn't like to go out and spend some money on a great top pairing defensive d-man but until the ownership thing gets worked out, we are going to have to settle for things like this.

I believe they tried Polak on the left side towards the end of the year last year and it didn't work very well. Then they signed Huskins in the off-season.

I think they'll make a move at the draft with players + picks for a #1 pairing LD.

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04-18-2012, 06:26 PM
  #115
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How aboot -

Perron Backes Oshie
McDonald Berglund Steen
Schwartz Jokinen Tarasenko

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04-18-2012, 06:43 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by execwrite View Post
How aboot -

Perron Backes Oshie
McDonald Berglund Steen
Schwartz Jokinen Tarasenko
Depends, will Jokinen take less than 2.5 mil to sign here?

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Old
04-18-2012, 07:07 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by execwrite View Post
How aboot -

Perron Backes Oshie
McDonald Berglund Steen
Schwartz Jokinen Tarasenko
That would be awesome just for the non-stop Olli gif's while in a Blues uni, combine him and turkey girl...it would be an amazing side thread to have!

He would be worth every penny

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04-18-2012, 07:29 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by illninofan View Post
Cole and Russell are both left-handed.
Petro and Polak are both right-handed.

Not sure if that would work.
ya i suppose you are right, didn't even think about that. i think petro may be talented enough to play on the other side but its probably not the best idea and it would seem that the best option is outside help

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04-18-2012, 07:41 PM
  #119
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Depends, will Jokinen take less than 2.5 mil to sign here?
That is the question. If he leaves Calgary, does he go for the biggest dollars or a chance to win? Would have to be a one or two-year deal for the Blues.

Will be tough to sign him here.

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04-18-2012, 07:56 PM
  #120
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Jokinen is still good enough to play a top 6 role and put up 55-65 points. He was the second leading scorer on Calgary this year. He's also probably the best UFA Center available at this point. He'll generate plenty of interest from teams, and I think his salary will be a lot closer to $4-4.5 than $2.5 million.

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04-18-2012, 08:28 PM
  #121
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Zero interest in Jokinen from me.

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04-18-2012, 08:29 PM
  #122
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ya i suppose you are right, didn't even think about that. i think petro may be talented enough to play on the other side but its probably not the best idea and it would seem that the best option is outside help
Cole is comfortable on the right side, from what I've seen of Polak on the left it is best avoided.

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04-18-2012, 10:39 PM
  #123
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I prefer someone who can be a faceoff ace on the 3rd line. If we can get someone who can get 40 points and win faceoffs, I would prefer that over Jokinen. If management was confident that Stoll could get back to his past production, I would say sign him. I don't want to overpay for the 3rd line center spot, because that is what we would have to do with Jokinen.

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04-19-2012, 05:44 AM
  #124
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Arnott got $2.8 million this year, I think.

Could probably afford $3 million next year for a veteran center for the third line.

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04-19-2012, 12:30 PM
  #125
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Barring a new #1 LD acquisition, I've been curious how Russell and Petro might look as a pair.

It seems that the need for a new Petro partner is driven in part by his current partners' tendency to defer to Petro to move the puck out of the zone. (Colaiacovo does this a LOT.) That gives opposing forecheckers the opportunity to put a radar-lock on Petro at the top of the circles and try to run him through the end-boards. With Russell on the left, you'd have two solid transitional puck-movers to help minimize D-zone time. Russell is also more solid defensively than I remembered him being with Columbus.

Then go Cole/Shatty and Jax/Polak, or Jax/Shatty and Cole or new #6 D/Polak.

I guess the downsize is lack of size on that top pairing...they could get trapped deep by big aggressive forecheckers and have difficulty winning the puck back...but I'd think that would be mitigated by solid center play in the D-zone, which we currently have and will continue to have.

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