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02-04-2012, 04:04 PM
  #1
Pez68
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Fire Joel Quenneville

It's time. There's a thread from a few years ago on the Colorado forums. You can pretty much copy/paste all the replies from that one, right into this one. It's a literal case of deja vu. I'll list just the major concerns I have with his coaching.

1) Mike Kitchen. This PK is his baby. Look up some youtubes of the Florida PK when Kitchen was there and you see the EXACT same passive, weak garbage. Same garbage results too. This 1+3 PK we've seen lately is an ABOMINATION, and it's the PK he ran in Florida.

2) Constant line shuffling allows zero chemistry to build. Perfect example last night. Was the team failing to generate offense in Edmonton? No, they generated almost 50 shots. But let's blow up the lines and start from scratch. When really, swapping Crawford for Emery is all you needed. That loss last night is all on Q. Instead of just letting the team forget it and move on, he stressed the "lack of defense". As a result, the team played scared and conservative hockey, with zero chemistry.

3) His obsession with line matching hinders game flow for the team. Instead of rushing the puck, they dump and change if the right "matchup" isn't out there.

4) His misuse of Nick Leddy. Kid is 21 years old. He should not be playing 25 minutes a night. He should not be killing penalties. He SHOULD be getting PP minutes, as that is his main strength. Total failure, and that's how you ruin a prospect.

5) His misuse of David Bolland. Bolland produces whenever he is given players worth a damn. There is absolutely no reason Bolland shouldn't have been given a 20-30 game stretch up with Hossa and Sharp at this point. Especially given the lack of a "second line center". Instead, he gets saddled with Frolik and Bickell or the rookies all season. Kruger, the rookie, and Morrison, the washed up has-been, get time with Hossa and Sharp ahead of Bolland. Nice.

6) His obsession with trying to recreate the mythical "perfect 3rd line". Newsflash Joel, lines like that only exist when you have superstars on ELCs, and can pay a third line 12+ million in salary. You aren't going to recreate Ladd/Bolland/Havlat or Ladd/Bolland/Versteeg anytime soon. Unless, of course, you look to point #5, and play Bolland with Hossa and Sharp. Any reason Sharp/Bolland/Hossa can't be a checking line? I see none. It's how Babcock(A REAL COACH) uses Datsyuk's line.

7) His overplaying of Keith and Seabrook. I realize that the bottom pairing for the Hawks isn't GREAT, but it's no worse than the rest of the NHL. Yet, the rest of the NHL finds ways to give their top guys around 25 minutes a game, their second pair around 20, and the third pair around 15.

8) Does Q hate Montador? Is there a reason Montador hasn't killed penalties at all this season? He killed them the last two in Buffalo... on a better PK than the Hawks have. Is there a reason that, when Leddy hit a wall, Montador hasn't been given a shot with Hammer in the top 4? He played top 4 minutes in Buffalo...

9) Don't dress John Scott on DEFENSE, if you aren't going to play him more than 5 minutes. All it does is burn out the other 4 defensemen.

10) The PP, despite a decent ranking, has looked like crap for two years. It is absolute clownshoes. The personnel makes no sense, and it stinks of overcoaching. Why does the offense look worse on the PP, than it does at even strength? Well, because you insist on playing guys where they aren't comfortable. Put Keith and Seabs out there on the point, and have them switch sides. Put Stalberg/Toews/Kane up front. Put Montador and Leddy out there for PP2, and have them switch sides. Put Sharp/Bolland/Hossa out there up front. Let them play their game. Poof! The PP instantly gets better.

There's more, but I think you get the idea. This team has a window to compete for cups. Having Q coach this team through that window will be a colossal mistake. Just ask Colorado.

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02-04-2012, 04:10 PM
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Yes. The answer to a few game slump is to fire coach q. you're absolutely right. He didn't pull our team out of the gutter and lead to us a cup at all. While we're at it, lets fire Bowman! He hasn't given us s***! All he's done is pick apart the deepest stanley cup winning team in decades. D*** all the hawks brass! fire them all! we're losing!

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02-04-2012, 04:14 PM
  #3
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I couldn't really find anything I disagreed with.

I don't know if they should fire Q, but Kitchen has absolutely got to go.

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02-04-2012, 04:14 PM
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Great post, it's hard to argue with any of the points you've made.

The only issue is who we would bring in as coach to replace him. Not sure what's really out there right now.

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02-04-2012, 04:14 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
Yes. The answer to a few game slump is to fire coach q. you're absolutely right. He didn't pull our team out of the gutter and lead to us a cup at all. While we're at it, lets fire Bowman! He hasn't given us s***! All he's done is pick apart the deepest stanley cup winning team in decades. D*** all the hawks brass! fire them all! we're losing!
Q didn't pull this team out of the gutter. They almost made the playoffs in 2007-08..

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02-04-2012, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Q didn't pull this team out of the gutter. They almost made the playoffs in 2007-08..
I stand corrected. He came the year after. But still. I dont think coach Q is the problem.

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02-04-2012, 04:18 PM
  #7
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Who is our new coach starting tomorrow, then? Which currently unemployed NHL coach will lead this team to the Cup this year?

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02-04-2012, 04:23 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
Yes. The answer to a few game slump is to fire coach q. you're absolutely right. He didn't pull our team out of the gutter and lead to us a cup at all. While we're at it, lets fire Bowman! He hasn't given us s***! All he's done is pick apart the deepest stanley cup winning team in decades. D*** all the hawks brass! fire them all! we're losing!
You obviously are missing the point. These have been issues for every single year he's been here.

Get past the point of this team winning the Cup. What do you think the coach can control? Does he make Kane, Sharp, Hossa, and Toews the studs that they are? Nope. Does he control the horrendous line changes, misuse of personel, the musical chairs in our lines, lack of defensive philosophy, and horrendous special teams? Yes. The reality is he's pretty much sucked since he got here. He just happened to walk into a situation where the team had, easily, the most talented roster in the NHL. Now that it doesn't, those same things that were problems before are costing this team games.

It's not an overreaction. If you can't see it you must not be paying attention. This team is a damned train wreck most nights out there. Either Q is oblivious to the problems he helps create or is oblivious about how to fix them. He needs to be out of here.

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02-04-2012, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Q didn't pull this team out of the gutter. They almost made the playoffs in 2007-08..
If not for all the injuries they would have made the playoffs that year. I contend rather easily as well (by a cushy 10 points).

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02-04-2012, 04:28 PM
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If people think that Q and the coaching staff have not been part of the problem (in my mind, a major part of the problem) the last year and a half, they are watching a different game than I am.

Bowman also has his share of the blame, but right now he gets an Incomplete as his grade. If the holes this team has aren't addressed by Feb. 27, he gets a Fail as well.

Well said Zac.

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02-04-2012, 04:29 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
Yes. The answer to a few game slump is to fire coach q. you're absolutely right. He didn't pull our team out of the gutter and lead to us a cup at all. While we're at it, lets fire Bowman! He hasn't given us s***! All he's done is pick apart the deepest stanley cup winning team in decades. D*** all the hawks brass! fire them all! we're losing!
No, Q didn't pull the team out of the gutter and lead us to a cup. He was gifted a roster that had NINE top six forwards, and a STACKED fourth line. He was gifted a team that, if assembled RIGHT NOW, would be up near the 80-90 million payroll mark. But of course, Q won that cup for the Hawks.

Sharp: $3.9(soon to be $5.9)
Toews: $6.3
Kane: $6.3
Hossa: $5.3
Bolland: $3.4
Seabrook: $5.8
Keith: $5.5
Hammer: $3.5
Campbell: $7.1
Sopel: $2.3
Boynton: $1.5
Brouwer: $2.4
Bickell: $.5
Madden: $2.75
Eager: $1.2
Huet: $5.6
Niemi: $3.8
Versteeg: $3.1
Ladd: $4.4
Buff: $5.2

That's just the guys that played. But that was all Q.

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02-04-2012, 04:30 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zac View Post
You obviously are missing the point. These have been issues for every single year he's been here.

Get past the point of this team winning the Cup. What do you think the coach can control? Does he make Kane, Sharp, Hossa, and Toews the studs that they are? Nope. Does he control the horrendous line changes, misuse of personel, the musical chairs in our lines, lack of defensive philosophy, and horrendous special teams? Yes. The reality is he's pretty much sucked since he got here. He just happened to walk into a situation where the team had, easily, the most talented roster in the NHL. Now that it doesn't, those same things that were problems before are costing this team games.

It's not an overreaction. If you can't see it you must not be paying attention. This team is a damned train wreck most nights out there. Either Q is oblivious to the problems he helps create or is oblivious about how to fix them. He needs to be out of here.
Every night?? I very much disagree. Does he line juggle alot? Yes, but it's his coaching style. Some people don't like it, other dont mind. We can't win the cup every year, we can't make it all the way to the conference finals every year. You all expect way too much. It depends on the players if they make the playoffs or not, not the coach. Getting better defense has to do with Bowman. Coach Q can't force Kane to score, he is in a slump. The whole team is slumping right now, the last thing they need is a new face in their locker room, whom they know nothing about.

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02-04-2012, 04:31 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by zac View Post
If not for all the injuries they would have made the playoffs that year. I contend rather easily as well (by a cushy 10 points).
Yep. If Toews and Havlat were healthy all year, that's a team that makes the playoffs.. even with Lalime starting as many games as he did. Hell, even Jason Williams was having a real solid year for them, and was only able to play in 43 games.

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02-04-2012, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
Every night?? I very much disagree. Does he line juggle alot? Yes, but it's his coaching style. Some people don't like it, other dont mind. We can't win the cup every year, we can't make it all the way to the conference finals every year. You all expect way too much. It depends on the players if they make the playoffs or not, not the coach. Getting better defense has to do with Bowman. Coach Q can't force Kane to score, he is in a slump. The whole team is slumping right now, the last thing they need is a new face in their locker room, whom they know nothing about.
Bowman has some responsibility for better defence yes, but there is also coaching involved in a team defensive system. Bowman does not set up the ridiculous PK, that's on Q.

As for the last sentence, it's possible they need a good kick in the pants and a fresh perspective and start. From an outsiders perspective (having watched, played and coached a lot of sports), it's looking to me like there isn't a lot of buy-in right now by the players to whatever the coach is selling. As a player, I'd be tired of being jerked around in terms of line combinations being changed every hour. I'd be tired of playing this PK system that that is a complete joke. I'd be tired of using the same PP system that everyone in the league caught on to a year ago. It's a lot easier to get rid of the coach as opposed to 20 players.

As for expecting too much, there is arguably no roster in the NHL that has better 1 thru 10 talent. This team should be a Cup contender. The attitude should not be one of just making the playoffs is acceptable. They should be contending for the Cup. If they don't, it's a massive underachievement. Windows to contend for the Cup don't last forever (unless you're the Wings it seems), and it just seems like we're pissing away one of those years within that window.

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02-04-2012, 04:56 PM
  #15
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I was very much in favor of firing Q even in the past offseason. You make Haviland the head coach and look for someone new in the offseason.

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02-04-2012, 05:03 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pez68 View Post
No, Q didn't pull the team out of the gutter and lead us to a cup. He was gifted a roster that had NINE top six forwards, and a STACKED fourth line. He was gifted a team that, if assembled RIGHT NOW, would be up near the 80-90 million payroll mark. But of course, Q won that cup for the Hawks.

Sharp: $3.9(soon to be $5.9)
Toews: $6.3
Kane: $6.3
Hossa: $5.3
Bolland: $3.4
Seabrook: $5.8
Keith: $5.5
Hammer: $3.5
Campbell: $7.1
Sopel: $2.3
Boynton: $1.5
Brouwer: $2.4
Bickell: $.5
Madden: $2.75
Eager: $1.2
Huet: $5.6
Niemi: $3.8
Versteeg: $3.1
Ladd: $4.4
Buff: $5.2

That's just the guys that played. But that was all Q.
With Savy as HC the Hawks would be Kings midwest trying to figure out how to get out of 1st round

Q deserves his share of credit for 09 and 2010 teams. To take away all credit from him and say he didn't do a thing is BS

And who are the 9 top 6 forwards?

Kopecky and Brouwer are 4th line talents

Quote:
Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
I was very much in favor of firing Q even in the past offseason. You make Haviland the head coach and look for someone new in the offseason.
What exactly has Haviland shown that makes him a worthy coach?

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02-04-2012, 05:04 PM
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And the fire Q crowd will be disappointed ,, Coaches aren't fired when there track record with team is

- Loss in WCF in 5 games (2 OT losses)
- Won cup
- Lost in 1st round vs #1 seed in 7 games (OT in game 7) with cap gutted team

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02-04-2012, 05:06 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
Every night?? I very much disagree. Does he line juggle alot? Yes, but it's his coaching style. Some people don't like it, other dont mind. We can't win the cup every year, we can't make it all the way to the conference finals every year. You all expect way too much. It depends on the players if they make the playoffs or not, not the coach. Getting better defense has to do with Bowman. Coach Q can't force Kane to score, he is in a slump. The whole team is slumping right now, the last thing they need is a new face in their locker room, whom they know nothing about.
Do you really think this defense is any worse than the rest of the NHL? The defensemen the Hawks have is not the issue. The Hawks have better players on defense than a good 75% of the NHL. Yet, sit in the bottom 5 in GAA. That is COACHING.

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02-04-2012, 05:09 PM
  #19
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Barry Trotz as the Head Coach of this team and I am convinced they are the best team in the NHL.

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02-04-2012, 05:12 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
With Savy as HC the Hawks would be Kings midwest trying to figure out how to get out of 1st round

Q deserves his share of credit for 09 and 2010 teams. To take away all credit from him and say he didn't do a thing is BS

And who are the 9 top 6 forwards?

Kopecky and Brouwer are 4th line talents



What exactly has Haviland shown that makes him a worthy coach?
Toews
Kane
Hossa
Sharp
Bolland
Versteeg
Ladd
Byfuglien

Excuse me, eight. And Kopecky and Brouwer are hardly 4th liners. They were 4th liners on THAT stacked roster. On any other team they are playing top 9, and do.

Savvy, coaching a team that had Toews, Havlat, and Williams all missing significant time, missed the playoffs by 3 points. With pretty much an entire team of rookies. If healthy, that team makes the playoffs easily. A cap gutted team last season? Still had a ridiculously talented top six, one of the best top 4 defenses in hockey, and had no significant injuries. And they made the playoffs because another team lost their last game.

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02-04-2012, 05:14 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Judrix View Post
Barry Trotz as the Head Coach of this team and I am convinced they are the best team in the NHL.
He's currently employed.

Why do the torch and pitchfork types dummy up when I ask who they want to coach this team after Q is fired?

Sounds like a bunch of 2009 bandwagoners who pout if they don't win the Cup every year.

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02-04-2012, 05:15 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by BobbleHeadNight View Post
He's currently employed.

Why do the torch and pitchfork types dummy up when I ask who they want to coach this team after Q is fired?

Sounds like a bunch of 2009 bandwagoners who pout if they don't win the Cup every year.
I didn't imply he would be a replacement, nor did I say we should fire Q.

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02-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
What exactly has Haviland shown that makes him a worthy coach?
His main qualification is that he's not Joel Quenneville.

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02-04-2012, 05:18 PM
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This can't be real can it? If your going to fire him just trade him to the flames

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02-04-2012, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbleHeadNight View Post
He's currently employed.

Why do the torch and pitchfork types dummy up when I ask who they want to coach this team after Q is fired?

Sounds like a bunch of 2009 bandwagoners who pout if they don't win the Cup every year.
Lifelong fan of 30 years here and one of the "torch and pitchfork" dummies who is pouting.

If you read my first post, that's where I say is the only thing giving me pause to firing Quenneville, is that I'm not quite sure yet who is out there who could be an effective replacement.

So I take it you think that this team is being coached well this year? Pass along some of what you're smoking to the rest of us.

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