HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Chicago Blackhawks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Fire Joel Quenneville

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-05-2012, 12:27 PM
  #76
BBSeabs27
#freeseabs
 
BBSeabs27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 2,313
vCash: 500
For the Q haters:

Quote:
Practice over at Johnny's. Joel Quenneville talking with #Blackhawks prez John McDonough afterward for several minutes.
via Adam Jahns

BBSeabs27 is offline  
Old
02-05-2012, 12:37 PM
  #77
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,289
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
For the Q haters:



via Adam Jahns
I don't get it..

Are you posting this to show McD has Q's back? I don't really find anything abnormal with McD and Q talking after a practise.

HockeySensible is offline  
Old
02-05-2012, 12:43 PM
  #78
BBSeabs27
#freeseabs
 
BBSeabs27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 2,313
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
I don't get it..

Are you posting this to show McD has Q's back? I don't really find anything abnormal with McD and Q talking after a practise.
I was just posting because I thought it was odd that Jahns would tweet about it. Never has done it before. Maybe its an indication McD is telling him to pick it up, idk. Posters can do with it what they wish, IDRC, just posting it.

BBSeabs27 is offline  
Old
02-05-2012, 01:05 PM
  #79
Pez68
Fire Quenneville
 
Pez68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
I don't get it..

Are you posting this to show McD has Q's back? I don't really find anything abnormal with McD and Q talking after a practise.
Is it normal for McD to be at practice? This is the first time I've heard of it.... Not many team presidents attend a Sunday practice...

Pez68 is offline  
Old
02-05-2012, 01:07 PM
  #80
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,289
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pez68 View Post
Is it normal for McD to be at practice? This is the first time I've heard of it.... Not many team presidents attend a Sunday practice...
I'm pretty sure I've seen him at all kinds of different Blackhawk related practises, propect camps, training camps..

He seems to like to be involved with everything.

HockeySensible is offline  
Old
02-05-2012, 01:12 PM
  #81
Cullksinikers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: 'Merica
Country: United States
Posts: 14,964
vCash: 500
McD is at everything.

Cullksinikers is offline  
Old
02-05-2012, 02:40 PM
  #82
zac
Registered User
 
zac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clydesdale line View Post
If there is a strength from Quenneville, is that he is very good in developing young players for a long time now. I'll use Leddy as an example (since the OP did) as he has handled him very well IMO furthering along his defensive game. It's a shame Leddy has to learn on the fly like this with a playoff team (gets more scrutinized than Keith, Seabs, etc. when the team was still in the dark stage) but Leddy will be better in the long run at his age. Not a fan of Kitchen or Bowman, and even I don't agree with Q's system or philosophies at times (can't do the same things you did when the team is deep Q) but I have no issues with him if this team doesn't quit changing it's puck possession style (which falls on Bowman and the front office).
No, he has handled Leddy poorly.

When bringing along a young talent, provided it isn't an absolute necessity to do otherwise, you put him in as many situations to succeed as humanly possible. While his defensive play has been erratic, his offensive play, namely his ability to move the puck and create in the offensive zone, has been consistently solid. EVERY DAMNED time he's been given the opportunity to get PP1 time he's looked fantastic. He shoots when he should shoot, is far and away the best dman at keeping pucks in the zone, and maybe above all knows when to get off the blue line to further a play. Not only is he our best dman option on the PP, it is an area he has, can, and will excel at if given the minutes. So what does Q do? He puts dmen who have exhibited questionable judgement, a knack for letting pucks squeak out of the zone, and ones that can't consistently get shots on net on the top unit for most of the year. Makes no sense whatsoever.

There will always be decisions coaches will make that I as a fan don't disagree with. That's not the problem. The problem is we have a coach that regularly defies all logic and makes irrational decisions. Putting Leddy on PP1 is probably the most no-brainer decision he should have had as a coach this year and he flat out ****s it up.

zac is offline  
Old
02-05-2012, 02:46 PM
  #83
zac
Registered User
 
zac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
right, fire the guy that always made the POs, won the Cup and is a future HoF Coach.

after you fired him, who do you hire? Haviland
If you evaluate the coach solely based on results without giving consideration to the talent on the roster, you aren't evaluating the coach at all.

zac is offline  
Old
02-05-2012, 02:56 PM
  #84
zac
Registered User
 
zac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbleHeadNight View Post
Did you miss the cap purge last year? And this year still has 29 games remaining, so maybe we should refrain from calling it a "rough year" just yet.
It wasn't the casualties that were the impetus for last season's, or even this season's struggles. It was the holdovers, namely Keith, Seabs, Hammer, Kane, Hossa (injury), and even Sharp (who was a big liability defensively) that didn't play well. Last year, at least defensively, our 3rd line was very good while the 4th line, which did lack typical physicality, was okay. Really the only guys who played better were Toews and especially Campbell. Team play was a regular atrocity, with the team having many of the same problems they are having this year. Come to think of it, many of the same issues they've always had under Q save for the first half of the Cup winning season.

Do I think it's likely Q gets fired before the end of the season? No. But debating whether it should happen is a whole other issue entirely. Q was the LEAST important piece in the Cup winning season, and I was one of the few, if not the only one around here that didn't really want him signed. Without a beastly top to bottom roster with the ability to gloss over his idiocy, Q is exposed.

Referring to this season as a "rough year" would be an understatement to how long and how pervasive these problems are/have been going on.

zac is offline  
Old
02-05-2012, 04:37 PM
  #85
Marotte Marauder
Registered User
 
Marotte Marauder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
LOL.

Miller>Frolik
Helm>>>>>Kruger
Cleary>Shaw

Emmerton<Mayers
Abdelkader>Morrison
Holmstrom>>Hayes
So, in total the Red Wings bottom six is miles ahead of the Hawks bottom six. Agree 100%!

Marotte Marauder is offline  
Old
02-05-2012, 04:54 PM
  #86
DisgruntledHawkFan
Moderator
 
DisgruntledHawkFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 26,832
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DisgruntledHawkFan
Drew Miller isn't any better than Frolik, but Cleary is way ahead of Shaw.

DisgruntledHawkFan is online now  
Old
02-05-2012, 05:12 PM
  #87
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 25,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zac View Post
If you evaluate the coach solely based on results without giving consideration to the talent on the roster, you aren't evaluating the coach at all.
what has he done wrong? do you really can say what he has done wrong with videos that prove this? Can you really prove that whatever you say is right?

We all can't. And Q has made the WCF, won the SC and lost in the 1st round against the best Western team in Game 7 OT. How about we talk about the things we really can judge?

Bubba88 is offline  
Old
02-05-2012, 05:17 PM
  #88
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 25,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pez68 View Post
Nope, but with the talent this team has, there should be no excuse making. Nashville and St. Louis have both cooled off. Detroit is going to be going through a rough stretch here with Howard out. The Hawks need to straighten this out, and quickly. There is absolutely no reason, with the roster they have RIGHT NOW, that they cannot finish top 4 in this conference. Anything else is a failure, IMO.
#1 RS means nothing as long as we make the POs
#2 maybe we should wait and see what happens in the last 30 games? Maybe we should wait with quick judgements?
#3 Going into the POs as No. 5 seed would not be a failure. I have no problem with the No. 8 seed if when we win the Cup.



AHHHH Sky is falling

Bubba88 is offline  
Old
02-05-2012, 11:52 PM
  #89
Pez68
Fire Quenneville
 
Pez68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
what has he done wrong? do you really can say what he has done wrong with videos that prove this? Can you really prove that whatever you say is right?

We all can't. And Q has made the WCF, won the SC and lost in the 1st round against the best Western team in Game 7 OT. How about we talk about the things we really can judge?
That's a strawman argument, because you can't prove what he's done right, either. Nobody here can prove that the Hawks would win a cup with, or without Q. Nobody here can prove that the Hawks would be better off with a different coach. We'll just have to see. I'd be willing to bet money that the Hawks don't win another cup with Q at the helm though. I'd also be willing to bet that the Hawks don't finish #1 in the Western Conference with Q either.

Playoff seeding means a lot, actually. The easier your first couple rounds, the more rested you are for the stretch run. Home ice means nothing, right? With this roster, I look at anything less than 4th place as a disappointment.

Pez68 is offline  
Old
02-06-2012, 12:30 AM
  #90
DirkGrahamsMustache
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 48
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
#2 maybe we should wait and see what happens in the last 30 games? Maybe we should wait with quick judgements?

AHHHH Sky is falling
Why? Why wait? The team has problems right now, and they should be talked about.

The sky is fine, the only thing that is falling is the Hawks in the standings.

DirkGrahamsMustache is offline  
Old
02-06-2012, 12:42 AM
  #91
DisgruntledHawkFan
Moderator
 
DisgruntledHawkFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 26,832
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DisgruntledHawkFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pez68 View Post
That's a strawman argument, because you can't prove what he's done right, either. Nobody here can prove that the Hawks would win a cup with, or without Q. Nobody here can prove that the Hawks would be better off with a different coach. We'll just have to see. I'd be willing to bet money that the Hawks don't win another cup with Q at the helm though. I'd also be willing to bet that the Hawks don't finish #1 in the Western Conference with Q either.

Playoff seeding means a lot, actually. The easier your first couple rounds, the more rested you are for the stretch run. Home ice means nothing, right? With this roster, I look at anything less than 4th place as a disappointment.
It's quite easy to prove they can win one with him.

DisgruntledHawkFan is online now  
Old
02-06-2012, 01:47 AM
  #92
Hawkimus
Registered User
 
Hawkimus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Hawk Headquarters
Posts: 336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pez68 View Post
It's time. There's a thread from a few years ago on the Colorado forums. You can pretty much copy/paste all the replies from that one, right into this one. It's a literal case of deja vu. I'll list just the major concerns I have with his coaching.

1) Mike Kitchen. This PK is his baby. Look up some youtubes of the Florida PK when Kitchen was there and you see the EXACT same passive, weak garbage. Same garbage results too. This 1+3 PK we've seen lately is an ABOMINATION, and it's the PK he ran in Florida.

2) Constant line shuffling allows zero chemistry to build. Perfect example last night. Was the team failing to generate offense in Edmonton? No, they generated almost 50 shots. But let's blow up the lines and start from scratch. When really, swapping Crawford for Emery is all you needed. That loss last night is all on Q. Instead of just letting the team forget it and move on, he stressed the "lack of defense". As a result, the team played scared and conservative hockey, with zero chemistry.

3) His obsession with line matching hinders game flow for the team. Instead of rushing the puck, they dump and change if the right "matchup" isn't out there.

4) His misuse of Nick Leddy. Kid is 21 years old. He should not be playing 25 minutes a night. He should not be killing penalties. He SHOULD be getting PP minutes, as that is his main strength. Total failure, and that's how you ruin a prospect.

5) His misuse of David Bolland. Bolland produces whenever he is given players worth a damn. There is absolutely no reason Bolland shouldn't have been given a 20-30 game stretch up with Hossa and Sharp at this point. Especially given the lack of a "second line center". Instead, he gets saddled with Frolik and Bickell or the rookies all season. Kruger, the rookie, and Morrison, the washed up has-been, get time with Hossa and Sharp ahead of Bolland. Nice.

6) His obsession with trying to recreate the mythical "perfect 3rd line". Newsflash Joel, lines like that only exist when you have superstars on ELCs, and can pay a third line 12+ million in salary. You aren't going to recreate Ladd/Bolland/Havlat or Ladd/Bolland/Versteeg anytime soon. Unless, of course, you look to point #5, and play Bolland with Hossa and Sharp. Any reason Sharp/Bolland/Hossa can't be a checking line? I see none. It's how Babcock(A REAL COACH) uses Datsyuk's line.

7) His overplaying of Keith and Seabrook. I realize that the bottom pairing for the Hawks isn't GREAT, but it's no worse than the rest of the NHL. Yet, the rest of the NHL finds ways to give their top guys around 25 minutes a game, their second pair around 20, and the third pair around 15.

8) Does Q hate Montador? Is there a reason Montador hasn't killed penalties at all this season? He killed them the last two in Buffalo... on a better PK than the Hawks have. Is there a reason that, when Leddy hit a wall, Montador hasn't been given a shot with Hammer in the top 4? He played top 4 minutes in Buffalo...

9) Don't dress John Scott on DEFENSE, if you aren't going to play him more than 5 minutes. All it does is burn out the other 4 defensemen.

10) The PP, despite a decent ranking, has looked like crap for two years. It is absolute clownshoes. The personnel makes no sense, and it stinks of overcoaching. Why does the offense look worse on the PP, than it does at even strength? Well, because you insist on playing guys where they aren't comfortable. Put Keith and Seabs out there on the point, and have them switch sides. Put Stalberg/Toews/Kane up front. Put Montador and Leddy out there for PP2, and have them switch sides. Put Sharp/Bolland/Hossa out there up front. Let them play their game. Poof! The PP instantly gets better.

There's more, but I think you get the idea. This team has a window to compete for cups. Having Q coach this team through that window will be a colossal mistake. Just ask Colorado.
Troll or Chickenlittle

Hawkimus is offline  
Old
02-06-2012, 01:56 AM
  #93
Hawkimus
Registered User
 
Hawkimus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Hawk Headquarters
Posts: 336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbleHeadNight View Post
He's currently employed.

Why do the torch and pitchfork types dummy up when I ask who they want to coach this team after Q is fired?

Sounds like a bunch of 2009 bandwagoners who pout if they don't win the Cup every year.
LOL

1+

you win, sir

Hawkimus is offline  
Old
02-06-2012, 07:25 AM
  #94
Hawkscap
Registered User
 
Hawkscap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbleHeadNight

Sounds like a bunch of 2009 bandwagoners who pout if they don't win the Cup every year.
I always love this argument. Usually thrown out by fans that went to their first game in Toews Kane rookie year, wear green jerseys, arm dance to Chelseas Dagger and think Buff was a good D-man.

But, if you need credentials:

Family had season tickets in the 60 and 70s.
I have been going constantly to games since the 1991.
I was one the 2000 that went to games in the dark Alpo days.

Hawkscap is offline  
Old
02-06-2012, 08:13 AM
  #95
Kurtosis
RTJ
 
Kurtosis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norwood Park
Country: United States
Posts: 20,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkimus View Post
Troll or Chickenlittle
If I had to guess you are the first.

Kurtosis is online now  
Old
02-06-2012, 08:16 AM
  #96
brtriad
Registered User
 
brtriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Loop
Country: United States
Posts: 13,040
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to brtriad
McDonough needs to stay the hell away from personnel decisions.

brtriad is offline  
Old
02-06-2012, 08:49 AM
  #97
Hawkscap
Registered User
 
Hawkscap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbleHeadNight
He's currently employed.

Why do the torch and pitchfork types dummy up when I ask who they want to coach this team after Q is fired?
You must have missed my post.

Haviland or Torchetti as Head Coach. Bring in Perry Pearn to run the special teams.

Hawkscap is offline  
Old
02-06-2012, 09:39 AM
  #98
xX Hot Fuss
Registered User
 
xX Hot Fuss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topher42 View Post
You must have missed my post.

Haviland or Torchetti as Head Coach. Bring in Perry Pearn to run the special teams.
Yeah Haviland will lead this team to a Cup and Quenville will make us be an 8 seed again. You're right.


xX Hot Fuss is offline  
Old
02-06-2012, 09:44 AM
  #99
Hawkscap
Registered User
 
Hawkscap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Yeah Haviland will lead this team to a Cup and Quenville will make us be an 8 seed again. You're right.

Nice strawman argument. I never said Haviland would lead the Hawks to a Cup.

If Bowman finds the balls to fire Q, you stay with someone the team know at this point in the season which means Haviland. If Haviland can't cut it, Stan has all sumemr to find a coach. One who knows how to run a PK/PP , nor go into the shell and play soft no hit defense.

Hawkscap is offline  
Old
02-06-2012, 10:16 AM
  #100
BronYrAur
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,274
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zac View Post
No, he has handled Leddy poorly.

When bringing along a young talent, provided it isn't an absolute necessity to do otherwise, you put him in as many situations to succeed as humanly possible. While his defensive play has been erratic, his offensive play, namely his ability to move the puck and create in the offensive zone, has been consistently solid. EVERY DAMNED time he's been given the opportunity to get PP1 time he's looked fantastic. He shoots when he should shoot, is far and away the best dman at keeping pucks in the zone, and maybe above all knows when to get off the blue line to further a play. Not only is he our best dman option on the PP, it is an area he has, can, and will excel at if given the minutes. So what does Q do? He puts dmen who have exhibited questionable judgement, a knack for letting pucks squeak out of the zone, and ones that can't consistently get shots on net on the top unit for most of the year. Makes no sense whatsoever.

There will always be decisions coaches will make that I as a fan don't disagree with. That's not the problem. The problem is we have a coach that regularly defies all logic and makes irrational decisions. Putting Leddy on PP1 is probably the most no-brainer decision he should have had as a coach this year and he flat out ****s it up.
Yeah, I agree with a lot of this. Leddy looked very, very good at the start of the year. His defense seemed to have come along quite a bit. But I think over the course of a grueling season, that's definitely fallen off significantly. He probably shouldn't be on the 2nd line, getting this many minutes, especially so many on the PK. The kid is only 21, his defensive game is clearly not fully developed, and he and Hammer are just on the ice way too often. Part of this is on Bowman for not addressing the need for a 2nd-pair d-man. Don't know if that was intended to be Montador, and #5 probably does need to be on the ice a bit more often. I probably wouldn't be against seeing pairings of 2 - 5, 4 - 7, and 8 - 6 during some games.

BronYrAur is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.