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Kostitsyn bust???

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10-21-2004, 03:45 PM
  #1
Habs4ever
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Kostitsyn bust???

So far I have only seen appraise from fans, but other then one dominating tournament in his draft year, he has been totally invisible since then, even this year he is not geeting much time with bulldogs, I'm the ultimate optimist fan but Kostitsyn is an enigma to me, if he's really as good as they say he is then why hasn't he made any milestone since he was drafted??

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10-21-2004, 03:57 PM
  #2
ChemiseBleuHonnete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
So far I have only seen appraise from fans, but other then one dominating tournament in his draft year, he has been totally invisible since then, even this year he is not geeting much time with bulldogs, I'm the ultimate optimist fan but Kostitsyn is an enigma to me, if he's really as good as they say he is then why hasn't he made any milestone since he was drafted??
new to prospects? It takes more than a year to develop a player... Ever heard of Naslund, St-Louis, Alfredsson, Lang, Hejduk, Datsyuk, Ryder, Murray ?? No? Because it took them much more than 2 years to develop, you know.

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10-21-2004, 04:05 PM
  #3
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We are miles from saying if he's a bust or a sure bet.

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10-21-2004, 04:06 PM
  #4
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well, those guys developed later

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Originally Posted by ax˛+bx+c
new to prospects? It takes more than a year to develop a player... Ever heard of Naslund, St-Louis, Alfredsson, Lang, Hejduk, Datsyuk, Ryder, Murray ?? No? Because it took them much more than 2 years to develop, you know.

and weren't marked as star players when drafted, well when drafted only few of those guys had NHL potential, while Kostitsyn has been compared to flashy Kovalchuck from the day he was drafted, its logical to expect that it takes him less time to get his game togather, at the draft day timmins even said Kostitsyn was ready to play in NHL, ya we could wait and all that but IMHO Kostitsyn should start dominating league soon, or i'll lose the faith that he's a franchise player.

One way or another he'll get his chance, but I want him more then a top six forward, he could be our saviour, so I expect great things from him.

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10-21-2004, 04:15 PM
  #5
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Ur forgetting something... Jarvis.. is a Hard Headed guy... He wants ALL his players to be able to Play defense before he gives them ice-time... No one else on the Bulldogs lineup has the Skill/Size/Speed/Determination that this guy has... itz just his Defense.. I personally don't like Jarvis for that... but the guy sticks to what he has... atleast Julien would have given the kid a chance.... Julien needs to sign to an AHL contract and coach the bulldogs!! (oops this could start a rumour... ) But seriously Until Jarvis gives him Ice time... Kostitsyn can't dominate... he does with what he has.. .but other then that... itz up to Jarvis to let him loose

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10-21-2004, 04:26 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
and weren't marked as star players when drafted, well when drafted only few of those guys had NHL potential, while Kostitsyn has been compared to flashy Kovalchuck from the day he was drafted, its logical to expect that it takes him less time to get his game togather, at the draft day timmins even said Kostitsyn was ready to play in NHL, ya we could wait and all that but IMHO Kostitsyn should start dominating league soon, or i'll lose the faith that he's a franchise player.

One way or another he'll get his chance, but I want him more then a top six forward, he could be our saviour, so I expect great things from him.
You should check your expectations at the door when talking about prospects... a savior only comes once in a while. We picked Kostitsyn around 10th, while in most drafts your only safe bet for a guy who will step right into the NHL is in the #1 or 2 position. Timmins said that AK has NHL skills, but everyone has long realized that he needs work on other areas of his game... intensity, defense, using linemates, corner work, etc.

As for the kid not getting as much icetime as you'd hoped, you must realize that he DOES NOT speak english fluently and he's never been in a position where it really mattered if he played defense. Even guys who do backcheck call jarvis' system very intricate (Chris Higgins for instance) and conveying that to a young guy who doesn't speak english will take MUCH more time... imagine yourself in thailand (that's right, our alphabet isnt the same as the one he grew up with) trying to learn to play a game where you were required to adhere to a system, and to communicate with linemates... would you be an immediate savior??? In short, hell no. none of us could expect that of ourselves.

Relax, give the guy time and get back to us in february or march when he's had 6 months to adapt to english, and smaller ice-surfaces, and larger players, and strict systems of hockey.

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10-21-2004, 04:29 PM
  #7
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Well, there's only one obvious thing. You're relatively new to the prospect world. Prospects develop into a non-linear way, they don't have the same developement patterns for many reasons. I mean, I personally find it very stupid when I hear, 'well wasn't he supposed to be tearing up the nhl by now? I lost faith in him because he's not having a lot of ice time in the AHL' . WTF, it's a such non-sense.

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10-21-2004, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
and weren't marked as star players when drafted, well when drafted only few of those guys had NHL potential, while Kostitsyn has been compared to flashy Kovalchuck from the day he was drafted, its logical to expect that it takes him less time to get his game togather, at the draft day timmins even said Kostitsyn was ready to play in NHL, ya we could wait and all that but IMHO Kostitsyn should start dominating league soon, or i'll lose the faith that he's a franchise player.

One way or another he'll get his chance, but I want him more then a top six forward, he could be our saviour, so I expect great things from him.
As a prospect, most people had Naslund ranked right with Forsberg (or even above Forsberg) and he was a HUGE disappointment with the Pens and it took him a long time to be a good player with the Canucks, let alone the Naslund we know today. At 24, The Sports Forecaster was saying things like "At 24, the clock is ticking. Must break through now," "Has to live up to the 40-goal potential scouts saw in the former Penguins first-rounder, because he's not that useful as a 20-goal man," "Defensively unworthy of the two-way tag [...]. Won't grind to score, so somebody has to get him the puck," and "Another underachiever." This is a Naslund at 24 years old! And he actually took a step back the next year! The Canucks didn't give up on this 24 year old and look what he's now. Kostitsyn has only played 3 pro games and by all accounts is making the most of his limited ice time (impressing everyone with his shot), and he's only 19! Give the guy some time.

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10-21-2004, 04:49 PM
  #9
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But not making it sooner is the biggest concern for me!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis Keon
As a prospect, most people had Naslund ranked right with Forsberg (or even above Forsberg) and he was a HUGE disappointment with the Pens and it took him a long time to be a good player with the Canucks, let alone the Naslund we know today. At 24, The Sports Forecaster was saying things like "At 24, the clock is ticking. Must break through now," "Has to live up to the 40-goal potential scouts saw in the former Penguins first-rounder, because he's not that useful as a 20-goal man," "Defensively unworthy of the two-way tag [...]. Won't grind to score, so somebody has to get him the puck," and "Another underachiever." This is a Naslund at 24 years old! And he actually took a step back the next year! The Canucks didn't give up on this 24 year old and look what he's now. Kostitsyn has only played 3 pro games and by all accounts is making the most of his limited ice time (impressing everyone with his shot), and he's only 19! Give the guy some time.
Management could easilly trade him away like balez if he doesn't dominate bulldogs soon, ya I know he'll be great player but I want him to be hab when he does that, not traded because didn't live upto potential.

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10-21-2004, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax˛+bx+c
new to prospects? It takes more than a year to develop a player... Ever heard of Naslund, St-Louis, Alfredsson, Lang, Hejduk, Datsyuk, Ryder, Murray ?? No? Because it took them much more than 2 years to develop, you know.
In the particular case of Alfredsson, let me remind that he won the Calder award... just to nitpick.

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10-21-2004, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-D
In the particular case of Alfredsson, let me remind that he won the Calder award... just to nitpick.
he was also 23 if I remember ...

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Old
10-21-2004, 05:59 PM
  #12
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One easy answer for you..

This year, there is Alex Ovechkin and Evgeni Malkin.

Of the two, Ovechkin is probably the most likely to have immediate impact but Malkin also has a lot of potential. Malkin though, will probably take 2 or 3 years to reach his potential while as Ovechkin should be able to demonstrate it much quicker.

Every prospect has a different development curve. Have faith in your prospects but don't raise your expectations to unreasonable levels. He's being coached heavily by Jarvis and being taught how to play a two-way game to ensure a longer career. If he's one-dimensional, he is useless when he's not scoring (which all players go through) but if he brings a defensive game to the table, then he provides more value.

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10-21-2004, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
Management could easilly trade him away like balez if he doesn't dominate bulldogs soon, ya I know he'll be great player but I want him to be hab when he does that, not traded because didn't live upto potential.
I don't think the Habs traded away Balej because of not living up to his potential.

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10-21-2004, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Franz
I don't think the Habs traded away Balej because of not living up to his potential.
Bob had to pay the cost for Kovalev, maybe the best rental player around...Simple as that.

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10-21-2004, 07:22 PM
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thats what I'm saying!!

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Originally Posted by EaGLE1
Bob had to pay the cost for Kovalev, maybe the best rental player around...Simple as that.

in few years we'll need another push to become contender, and high rated prospects will be traded. Most teams will ask for Kostitsyn, knowing potential and I don't want him gone before he becomes player in Montreal.

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10-21-2004, 08:05 PM
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Give the guy a break, all he can say in English is "I'm Andrei Kostitsyn, see us play.".

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10-21-2004, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Fugazi
Give the guy a break, all he can say in English is "I'm Andrei Kostitsyn, see us play.".
Hehehehehe... reference to the hamilton bulldogs web site, right?

I remember when Perez first came to canada, a mere year ago... he wasn't amazing at all during the rookie camp and the first months of AHL play. But after xmas... oh boy did he found back his beat.

It's way too early to conclude anything on Kostitsyn. Maybe in a few month.

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10-21-2004, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe
Hehehehehe... reference to the hamilton bulldogs web site, right?

I remember when Perez first came to canada, a mere year ago... he wasn't amazing at all during the rookie camp and the first months of AHL play. But after xmas... oh boy did he found back his beat.

It's way too early to conclude anything on Kostitsyn. Maybe in a few month.
Well he scored the game winner the other day...not that bad

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10-21-2004, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
So far I have only seen appraise from fans, but other then one dominating tournament in his draft year, he has been totally invisible since then, even this year he is not geeting much time with bulldogs, I'm the ultimate optimist fan but Kostitsyn is an enigma to me, if he's really as good as they say he is then why hasn't he made any milestone since he was drafted??
i don't get the final numbers of Kast for last year but from what i can see , he's far to has been totally invisible.

CSKA-2 27 gp 25 g , 13 a ; total 38 points ....totally invisible ?

wjc 5 gp , 5 g , 5 a ; total 10 points ........totally invisible ?

CSKA 11 gp , 0 g , 1 a ; total 1 point.....hum... invisible may be

we all know that in the CSKA ( a very defensive team , if i am not wrong ) he was playing in the 4th line...so probably 4-5 minutes /game. And a player like him is not effective in that kind of role ( think Ribeiro before last year )

His production was really good when he was playing in a league where there are more players of his age .

i don't know where is the problem with him , and why you considered that he was totally invisible since his draft..

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10-21-2004, 10:12 PM
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Will he be a bust, maybe?? He could just as easily not be a bust and a star player. Time will tell. As for his ice time, its not because hes not "good enough", its has more to do with the fact that Jarivs has chosen to bring him into a defensive system slowly. As we all know, Kostitsyn is not all that great defensively, but wheter he plays or not due to this fact, depends largely on the coach. Some teams AHL coaches will let the player play all he wants despite lacking any defensive game. Jarvis on the other hand had chosen to not let him "just play". Personally i like the fact that hes seeing limited ice time, because it also conveys the message that you must "earn" your ice time.

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10-21-2004, 10:36 PM
  #21
Habs4ever
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Perezhogin put up 72 points in his draft year

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v
i don't get the final numbers of Kast for last year but from what i can see , he's far to has been totally invisible.

CSKA-2 27 gp 25 g , 13 a ; total 38 points ....totally invisible ?

wjc 5 gp , 5 g , 5 a ; total 10 points ........totally invisible ?

CSKA 11 gp , 0 g , 1 a ; total 1 point.....hum... invisible may be

we all know that in the CSKA ( a very defensive team , if i am not wrong ) he was playing in the 4th line...so probably 4-5 minutes /game. And a player like him is not effective in that kind of role ( think Ribeiro before last year )
His production was really good when he was playing in a league where there are more players of his age .

i don't know where is the problem with him , and why you considered that he was totally invisible since his draft..



in the league Kostitsyn played last year in Rusia, and Kostitsyn wasn't even point leader in his team during last WJC tournament, does that mean Belasrussians are started to bring surefire franchise players or what??
Ya I'm not arguing the fact that he's sure fire NHL talent, but he's gone have to be something special to become franchise player in Montreal.

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10-22-2004, 01:03 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
in the league Kostitsyn played last year in Rusia, and Kostitsyn wasn't even point leader in his team during last WJC tournament, does that mean Belasrussians are started to bring surefire franchise players or what??
Ya I'm not arguing the fact that he's sure fire NHL talent, but he's gone have to be something special to become franchise player in Montreal.
No need for a franchise player. If he become a player comparable to Havlat, i'll be happy.

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10-22-2004, 01:06 AM
  #23
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No need for a franchise player. If he become a player comparable to Havlat, i'll be happy.
Havlat? You're asking too much. Kosty is nowhere near Havlat. Havlat is so fast and he's one of the most skilled guy in the league. However, Kosty has a better shot so he could be a better sniper. Not a player like Havlat though.

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10-22-2004, 10:22 AM
  #24
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Well havlat in my mind is as good as it gets!!

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Originally Posted by EaGLE1
No need for a franchise player. If he become a player comparable to Havlat, i'll be happy.

just because he's playing in NHL doesn't mean he has reached his potential yet, havlat could be game breaker in senators uniform for years to come. If kostitsyn can bring same intensity I'll be very happy, but he hasn't accomplished any milestone yet since drafted, and that has me worried!!

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10-22-2004, 10:24 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax˛+bx+c
Havlat? You're asking too much. Kosty is nowhere near Havlat. Havlat is so fast and he's one of the most skilled guy in the league. However, Kosty has a better shot so he could be a better sniper. Not a player like Havlat though.
He didnt say he WOULD. He just said that IF he did become that type of a player....

dont mind me, just nitpicking........

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