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Burke's Team - Not what he promised

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Old
02-13-2012, 11:16 AM
  #376
ThreeHundred
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Did you agree for 6 weeks when the team had 5 almost 6 shutouts and a perfect pK record? This team plays a fast high tempo system that is challenging for young defenders, and, they have shown extended glimps of being able to shut high scoring teams like the Penguins and Senators down. Not perfect, but getting better.
Well if its challenging for the type of Defensemen we have, wouldn't it be better to use a different system?

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02-13-2012, 11:24 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by dream team43 View Post
Jeff Blair was stating how Burke invested a lot of time & money on our D and we stilll don't got that Shut down Defender and our D is still pretty bad..

I kinda agree
Jeff Blair is also not a Leaf homer like a lot of people who refuse to see the team for what it is. The most over-rated part of this Burke team since the day he arrived is definitely the defense. Pay a ton of money for it. Have all this perceived "depth" and presumed "truculence" yet they are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. I know...I know..they are fantastic 5 on 5 and they have a bad PK.....goaltending is sub-par and they play a high paced tempo...none of which has anything to do with the coach or the GM or the management team of course.

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02-13-2012, 11:34 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Jeff Blair is also not a Leaf homer like a lot of people who refuse to see the team for what it is. The most over-rated part of this Burke team since the day he arrived is definitely the defense. Pay a ton of money for it. Have all this perceived "depth" and presumed "truculence" yet they are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. I know...I know..they are fantastic 5 on 5 and they have a bad PK.....goaltending is sub-par and they play a high paced tempo...none of which has anything to do with the coach or the GM or the management team of course.
exactly..
Our whole Defense is over-rated!!!
Do we have a true #1 and #2 Defense pairing?
There's too much money on our D right now, even if we trade away 1 or 2 D-men there's still a lot invested in them and there really not that reliable..

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02-13-2012, 11:39 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Did you agree for 6 weeks when the team had 5 almost 6 shutouts and a perfect pK record? This team plays a fast high tempo system that is challenging for young defenders, and, they have shown extended glimps of being able to shut high scoring teams like the Penguins and Senators down. Not perfect, but getting better.

You are optimistic that the real leaf team is the solid goaltending, up tempo team that limits turnovers and ability to penetrate the offensive zone.

Others are pessimistic that the real team is the goaltender prone to softies, and defence that turns over the puck and is stalled by defensive coverage.

Then there are others that are confused because the team is wildly inconsistent and not improving in those areas.

Which is the real team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dream team43 View Post
Well if its challenging for the type of Defensemen we have, wouldn't it be better to use a different system?
The back end is slow to below average skaters except for Gardiner.
Gardiner is the ideal run/gun defender - fast and silky smooth.
Gunnar/Phaneuf play smart defensively to compensate for slow skating.

Schenn and Komi are the entirely wrong type of skaters for this team.
Schenn was to be the 'cornerstone' for the defence but he would look tremendous on a trapping like NJ rather then a fast skating leaf team.


Last edited by number72: 02-13-2012 at 11:50 AM.
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02-13-2012, 11:41 AM
  #380
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i know it's difficult
but we have to be patient

bb loves making big blockbuster deals
so far he's got us:

kessel
lupul
phaneuf
liles
gardiner

others.... haven't worked out.
but that happens

we need a few more pieces
unfortunately this trade deadline looks like a turkey
too many buyers, not enough sellers

but wait until the off season
and/or next season

they can financially make room for a few more big ticket players

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02-13-2012, 11:42 AM
  #381
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People don't realize that we are still in the building phase.

The real product will start to show in about 2 years, when some guys drafted by the Burke regime start hitting prime time.

If you haven't noticed, all of Burke's drafts have been focused on addressing one need: size.

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02-13-2012, 11:47 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
People don't realize that we are still in the building phase.

The real product will start to show in about 2 years, when some guys drafted by the Burke regime start hitting prime time.

If you haven't noticed, all of Burke's drafts have been focused on addressing one need: size.
No, we are actually in a "let's get our butts kicked in the first round" phase, otherwise known as a pretender. Neither a builder or a contender, just a pretender.

Now the goalposts are shifting, where 2-3 years ago, we were told we were building for contendership in the present time, albeit, without the use of drafting rare talent.

Now here we are, 2-3 years later, and now we are once again at that the verdict that we are going to need another 2-3 years, without the use of drafting rare talent.

I'm, quite frankly, tired of this attitude of waiting another 2-3 years. Rinse and repeat, without any tangible results.

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02-13-2012, 11:48 AM
  #383
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How much do you think Phanuef will get once his contract is up?
I think 4 million would be good enough lol


Last edited by ThreeHundred: 02-13-2012 at 11:58 AM.
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02-13-2012, 12:00 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
No, we are actually in a "let's get our butts kicked in the first round" phase, otherwise known as a pretender. Neither a builder or a contender, just a pretender.

Now the goalposts are shifting, where 2-3 years ago, we were told we were building for contendership in the present time, albeit, without the use of drafting rare talent.

Now here we are, 2-3 years later, and now we are once again at that the verdict that we are going to need another 2-3 years, without the use of drafting rare talent.

I'm, quite frankly, tired of this attitude of waiting another 2-3 years. Rinse and repeat, without any tangible results.
What are you talking about?

Tanking isn't the only way to build. What do you thinking we've been doing the past couple of years?

We've been collecting good young players from around the league in Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, and shipping UFA's off for futures the past couple of years.

We've also put a lot of focus on drafting, and built a very strong prospect pool.

How does that not seem like a building team to you?

If anyone asks Burke what he wants to do at the deadline, he still says he wants guys who thinks will be good for now, and the future.

He isn't doing a quick fix here. He's building a strong base, which is a must for sustainable success. Just ask Detroit.

The only reason why you guys don't see it is because we don't have #1 picks like RNH and Hall getting pumped into our lineup.

Not every team needs to be built like that.

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02-13-2012, 12:07 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by dream team43 View Post
Well if its challenging for the type of Defensemen we have, wouldn't it be better to use a different system?
No, not at all. The best way to develop a player to the best of his ability is to put him in a challenging position. Our very young defenceman are learning valuable life long lessons in this system.
And they are showing in in short inconsistent spurts.

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02-13-2012, 12:10 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
No, not at all. The best way to develop a player to the best of his ability is to put him in a challenging position. Our very young defenceman are learning valuable life long lessons in this system.
And they are showing in in short inconsistent spurts.
Really? Cause it doesn't seem to be working out that well.. Just ask Schenn.. I don't see any improvements really.. And Komisarek hasn't been great in this system at all


Last edited by ThreeHundred: 02-13-2012 at 12:16 PM.
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02-13-2012, 12:12 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
What are you talking about?

Tanking isn't the only way to build. What do you thinking we've been doing the past couple of years?

We've been collecting good young players from around the league in Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, and shipping UFA's off for futures the past couple of years.

We've also put a lot of focus on drafting, and built a very strong prospect pool.

How does that not seem like a building team to you?

If anyone asks Burke what he wants to do at the deadline, he still says he wants guys who thinks will be good for now, and the future.

He isn't doing a quick fix here. He's building a strong base, which is a must for sustainable success. Just ask Detroit.

The only reason why you guys don't see it is because we don't have #1 picks like RNH and Hall getting pumped into our lineup.

Not every team needs to be built like that.
How many times has Detroit traded a 2nd overall, 9th overall, and a 32nd overall for a single player in their storied franchise?

What if Detroit traded their late round picks that would become Datsyuk and Zetterberg for fourth liners like Brown, Steckel, and May?

The Leafs are in no way following a Detroit model. Not even in the slightest. Post that on their board and you would probably get infracted.

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02-13-2012, 12:13 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
No, not at all. The best way to develop a player to the best of his ability is to put him in a challenging position. Our very young defenceman are learning valuable life long lessons in this system.
And they are showing in in short inconsistent spurts.
Not that I disagree with the sentiment but who are the "very very young" D men? Gardiner? Yup. Does this include Schenn despite his years in the league?

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02-13-2012, 12:14 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
How many times has Detroit traded a 2nd overall, 9th overall, and a 32nd overall for a single player in their storied franchise?

What if Detroit traded their late round picks that would become Datsyuk and Zetterberg for fourth liners like Brown, Steckel, and May?

The Leafs are in no way following a Detroit model. Not even in the slightest. Post that on their board and you would probably get infracted.
Burke doesn't want European players..
I'm pretty sure Detroit does and doesn't follow that North American prototype Burke follows

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02-13-2012, 12:15 PM
  #390
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Which is the real team?
.
Ii's not about optimism or pessimism. It's about being aware of and willing to accept the inconsistencies of a young team, specifically a young defence. I know, people hate the young team excuse but, it is a reality. We are relying on 21-22 year old defenceman for large portions of a game. Those guys will show flashes of brilliance and face palming mistakes.

As time goes on, the mistakes are less dangerous, they are fewer and far between and the periods of strong consistent hockey are extended. Like the 6 week period they recently went through with really 1 stinker of a game that is fresh in our heads.

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02-13-2012, 12:18 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Ii's not about optimism or pessimism. It's about being aware of and willing to accept the inconsistencies of a young team, specifically a young defence. I know, people hate the young team excuse but, it is a reality. We are relying on 21-22 year old defenceman for large portions of a game. Those guys will show flashes of brilliance and face palming mistakes.

As time goes on, the mistakes are less dangerous, they are fewer and far between and the periods of strong consistent hockey are extended. Like the 6 week period they recently went through with really 1 stinker of a game that is fresh in our heads.
Hogwash!

These are professional hockey players not everyday people like you and me. They don't make mistakes......ever!

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02-13-2012, 12:18 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Ii's not about optimism or pessimism. It's about being aware of and willing to accept the inconsistencies of a young team, specifically a young defence. I know, people hate the young team excuse but, it is a reality. We are relying on 21-22 year old defenceman for large portions of a game. Those guys will show flashes of brilliance and face palming mistakes.

As time goes on, the mistakes are less dangerous, they are fewer and far between and the periods of strong consistent hockey are extended. Like the 6 week period they recently went through with really 1 stinker of a game that is fresh in our heads.
There are vets on our D as well

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02-13-2012, 12:24 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
People don't realize that we are still in the building phase.

The real product will start to show in about 2 years, when some guys drafted by the Burke regime start hitting prime time.

If you haven't noticed, all of Burke's drafts have been focused on addressing one need: size.
Patience is not just about Burke's draft picks. It's about a team finding chemistry, and letting guys like Gardiner and Schenn, Gunnar and Franson on defence and Kulemin, MacA, Kadri and Frattin learn what it takes to compete and get better everyday. Look back at Grabo's career as a Leaf and how inconsistent that guy was. He's sure matured and learned and now he's a guy nobody wants to lose.

Patience is about letting some of these guys develop so that Burke knows what he has. Should he keep them or move them. What's the point in moving a package of 4 players for Getzlaf when one of those guys will be as good as Getzlaf, or close? You have to take a deep breath and let it play out for a little while. Burke brought in Biggs, Percy, Leivo, Gardiner, Colborne and Franson in a 4 month period from Feb to July last year. Add to that Frattin, Blacker, D'Amigo and others who joined (or re-joined) the pro ranks at the same time. We have to give them some time to show us what they've got to offer before we either ship them out, or expect them to be difference makers.

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02-13-2012, 12:26 PM
  #394
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There are vets on our D as well
Who get the most minutes. Phaneuf is supposed to be an elite D man and he leads the D. No excuses.

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02-13-2012, 12:28 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by dream team43 View Post
How much do you think Phanuef will get once his contract is up?
I think 4 million would be good enough lol
No way phaneuf gets only 4, he's on pace for 50 points this year, and remains one of the best open ice hitters in the game. I'd be happy with somewhere between 5-5.5.

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02-13-2012, 12:29 PM
  #396
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No way phaneuf gets only 4, he's on pace for 50 points this year, and remains one of the best open ice hitters in the game. I'd be happy with somewhere between 5-5.5.
Obviously he will get a raise. Prob around 7.5M.

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02-13-2012, 12:29 PM
  #397
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Who get the most minutes. Phaneuf is supposed to be an elite D man and he leads the D. No excuses.
lol i wouldn't consider him elite

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02-13-2012, 12:30 PM
  #398
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lol i wouldn't consider him elite
Debatable but he is paid to be elite and most think he is.

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02-13-2012, 12:31 PM
  #399
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Debatable but he is paid to be elite and most think he is.
Who is most? HF Board posters? He's over paid

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02-13-2012, 12:34 PM
  #400
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Obviously he will get a raise. Prob around 7.5M.
7.5 is insanity for this guy! I rather not sign him if that's what its going to be.. He's no Lidstrom

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