HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Burke's Team - Not what he promised

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-13-2012, 11:35 AM
  #401
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dream team43 View Post
There are vets on our D as well
Komo is absolutely 100% the wrong defenceman for this system. He should be moved ASAP. He also sits in the press box occasionally, and was hurt for a long period this year.

Liles is not a good defenceman. Never has been and never will. Positionally, he's not very good but he makes up for it in the other end.

Phaneuf is the key veteran defenceman at 26 years old.

smoke meat pete* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:37 AM
  #402
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dream team43 View Post
7.5 is insanity for this guy! I rather not sign him if that's what its going to be.. He's no Lidstrom
He thinks he is.

Gatorade* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:38 AM
  #403
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Komo is absolutely 100% the wrong defenceman for this system. He should be moved ASAP. He also sits in the press box occasionally, and was hurt for a long period this year.

Liles is not a good defenceman. Never has been and never will. Positionally, he's not very good but he makes up for it in the other end.

Phaneuf is the key veteran defenceman at 26 years old.
But you said the 21-22 yr olds were getting the important minutes. Which is it? Bad D or young guys getting the shutdown mins?

Gatorade* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:38 AM
  #404
Mansfield
possession obsession
 
Mansfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,997
vCash: 500
Gatorade is just trolling lol. No way Phaneuf gets or deserves more than 6 imo.

I like his game - I just think it's worth between 5-5.5

In fact, I will make a poll.

Mansfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:40 AM
  #405
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Not that I disagree with the sentiment but who are the "very very young" D men? Gardiner? Yup. Does this include Schenn despite his years in the league?
Ah, yes trying to get into a semantics argument about experience. No, young is in reference to age, relative to other teams.

Gardiner-21
Schenn-22
Aulie-22
Franson-23
Gunnarson-24
Phaneuf-26

That's a very young defence core, and games played doesn't change that fact.

smoke meat pete* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:40 AM
  #406
ThreeHundred
Registered User
 
ThreeHundred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 2,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansfield View Post
Gatorade is just trolling lol. No way Phaneuf gets or deserves more than 6 imo.

I like his game - I just think it's worth between 5-5.5

In fact, I will make a poll.
yeah that seems more realistic.. 7.5 would be a joke!
I'd say 5million max

ThreeHundred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:41 AM
  #407
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansfield View Post
Gatorade is just trolling lol. No way Phaneuf gets or deserves more than 6 imo.

I like his game - I just think it's worth between 5-5.5

In fact, I will make a poll.
How can he get less when he is still in his 20's and already making 6.5?

Gatorade* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:43 AM
  #408
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
But you said the 21-22 yr olds were getting the important minutes. Which is it? Bad D or young guys getting the shutdown mins?
I don't know what you are trying to get at here. I'm answering honestly. We've played 9 defenceman this year, 7 of who'm are league average age or lower. Of the other 2, combined they've missed 10 weeks or so of the season.

smoke meat pete* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:44 AM
  #409
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Ah, yes trying to get into a semantics argument about experience. No, young is in reference to age, relative to other teams.

Gardiner-21
Schenn-22
Aulie-22
Franson-23
Gunnarson-24
Phaneuf-26

That's a very young defence core, and games played doesn't change that fact.
Aulie is in the AHL, isn't he?

They have some young guys but they aren't getting the big minutes. You blamed them for the defensive struggles. So who's fault is it?

How ole is the Rangers D core compared to the Leafs? The results are similar?

Gatorade* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:45 AM
  #410
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Ii's not about optimism or pessimism. It's about being aware of and willing to accept the inconsistencies of a young team, specifically a young defence. I know, people hate the young team excuse but, it is a reality. We are relying on 21-22 year old defenceman for large portions of a game. Those guys will show flashes of brilliance and face palming mistakes.

As time goes on, the mistakes are less dangerous, they are fewer and far between and the periods of strong consistent hockey are extended. Like the 6 week period they recently went through with really 1 stinker of a game that is fresh in our heads.
Winnipeg was horrid. The last montreal game before this, the leafs were manhandled.
I'm not optimistic nor pessimistic - i'm trying to be objective and sometimes skew to being over critical to make the point on how the leafs management is not as blameless and faultless as people think. Or that youth excuse is not valid when they have been using the system for 3 years. Or whatever other myth people are to perpetuating

That said, they are not doing a terrible job - rather they are making some fundamental errors that are limiting the club.

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:47 AM
  #411
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
I don't know what you are trying to get at here. I'm answering honestly. We've played 9 defenceman this year, 7 of who'm are league average age or lower. Of the other 2, combined they've missed 10 weeks or so of the season.
Specifically this "I know, people hate the young team excuse but, it is a reality. We are relying on 21-22 year old defenceman for large portions of a game"

I don't think the team is "relying" on 21 and 22 yr old D men. I think that is an exaggeration. Doesn't Schenn get less than 17 mins per game?

Gatorade* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:51 AM
  #412
PresidentCamacho*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,170
vCash: 500
It seems as though we are relying on Dion Phaneuf (26), Carl Gunnarsson (24), JM Liles (32), oh and Gardiner (21) for most of our defence.

It's all Gardiner's fault we suck at defending. Ignore that Dion receives the lion's share of the minutes while being 12th in the league in goals against. Yeah ignore that, and lets blame it all on Jake Gardiner's rookie status.

PresidentCamacho* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:51 AM
  #413
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Aulie is in the AHL, isn't he?

They have some young guys but they aren't getting the big minutes. You blamed them for the defensive struggles. So who's fault is it?

How ole is the Rangers D core compared to the Leafs? The results are similar?
You seem to want an argument. I have no interest. I've been quite clear with my view.

smoke meat pete* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:54 AM
  #414
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
You seem to want an argument. I have no interest. I've been quite clear with my view.
Not an argument at all. Just trying to see why you are fabricating the truth.

Gatorade* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:54 AM
  #415
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
It seems as though we are relying on Dion Phaneuf (26), Carl Gunnarsson (24), JM Liles (32), oh and Gardiner (21) for most of our defence.

It's all Gardiner's fault we suck at defending. Ignore that Dion receives the lion's share of the minutes while being 12th in the league in goals against. Yeah ignore that, and lets blame it all on Jake Gardiner's rookie status.
Apparently it is all on the 21-22 yr old D. I just don't get it.

Gatorade* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 11:59 AM
  #416
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Specifically this "I know, people hate the young team excuse but, it is a reality. We are relying on 21-22 year old defenceman for large portions of a game"

I don't think the team is "relying" on 21 and 22 yr old D men. I think that is an exaggeration. Doesn't Schenn get less than 17 mins per game?
17 minutes is significant. So is Gardiner's 20+. Aulie has also played lots of minutes this year.

Nobody said a majority of minutes or most of the minutes. Last thing on this, cause the crowd is growing, but, this team has had 9 defenceman play this year and 7 of them are at or below the average age of players in the league. Komo (who missed 7 or 8 weeks and sits several games in the press box) and Liles (who missed 4 weeks) are the only players on the club above the average age of the league.

smoke meat pete* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:01 PM
  #417
PresidentCamacho*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,170
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Apparently it is all on the 21-22 yr old D. I just don't get it.
By that standard, I think I'm going to pin all the Rangers' defensive success on McDonagh.

He's the reason they are so good. Gardiner is the reason the Leafs are so bad.

They're young. We are young.

That makes sense, right?

PresidentCamacho* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:06 PM
  #418
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
I can see the maturity of the 2 of you seeping through my phone.

smoke meat pete* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:08 PM
  #419
PresidentCamacho*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,170
vCash: 500
Just wait 2-3 more years for Gardiner.

He will still be young and remember, games played doesn't matter, it's just his age that counts, but also keep in mind too that Jesse Blacker might crack the team so his added youth will further excuse the Leafs from good defence.

Am I getting all this right?

PresidentCamacho* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:13 PM
  #420
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
No, don't wait on Gardiner, he's a castoff.

smoke meat pete* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:14 PM
  #421
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
17 minutes is significant. So is Gardiner's 20+. Aulie has also played lots of minutes this year.

Nobody said a majority of minutes or most of the minutes. Last thing on this, cause the crowd is growing, but, this team has had 9 defenceman play this year and 7 of them are at or below the average age of players in the league. Komo (who missed 7 or 8 weeks and sits several games in the press box) and Liles (who missed 4 weeks) are the only players on the club above the average age of the league.
So when can we expect them to be a cup contender with this D?

Gatorade* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:16 PM
  #422
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
By that standard, I think I'm going to pin all the Rangers' defensive success on McDonagh.

He's the reason they are so good. Gardiner is the reason the Leafs are so bad.

They're young. We are young.

That makes sense, right?
I might have to repost the threads where the same people now making excuses for mistakes were fighting with people disagreeing with the Leafs having the best D in the East..... two years in a row hahaha

Gatorade* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:20 PM
  #423
PresidentCamacho*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,170
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
So when can we expect them to be a cup contender with this D?
The posts have shifted yet another 2-3 years.

2-3 years ago, we were 2-3 years away from being a "serious contender", according to a certain spin doctor.

Personally, I think we could have spent the past 2-3 years drafting high, filling the #1 line and #1 dman position with ease through high value talent, spending the next 2-3 years further drafting, developing, and signing good contracts, then after another 2-3 years, spend two firsts and a second on a good supporting winger to reach contendership.

PresidentCamacho* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:22 PM
  #424
PresidentCamacho*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,170
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
I might have to repost the threads where the same people now making excuses for mistakes were fighting with people disagreeing with the Leafs having the best D in the East..... two years in a row hahaha
Naughty naughty!

You should save the good threads for another time though. Y'know, the ones where the goalposts were only shifted 5 feet over. Save the 10 footers for another time!

PresidentCamacho* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-13-2012, 12:33 PM
  #425
PresidentCamacho*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,170
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Not at all. You became confrontational and condescending about the Leafs D falling on a 21 and 22 yr old but you fell to pieces when pushed on this.

My suggestion is back up what you say and if you are going to become condescending and confrontational at least have the facts on your side.
The fact is we are young and can't be held responsible for anything we do, Gatorade.

Once Gardiner reaches the average NHL age of defence, we can start pointing the finger at the coach and GM. I just hope we don't give roster spots to rookies, otherwise back to square one we go. Until then, we can rest comfortably behind our average age of players, no matter how many games of hockey they have played.

Oh and the Rangers are an outlier. Del Zotto, McDonagh, Staal, and Stralman are holding them back, because of their young average age. They could be way better.

PresidentCamacho* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:35 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.