HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Burke's Team - Not what he promised

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-05-2012, 11:45 AM
  #76
Arbucks
Registered User
 
Arbucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 408
vCash: 500
Fire Burke. He didn't deliver the players on HIS team that you deserve.

Arbucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 11:58 AM
  #77
Dayjobdave
Registered User
 
Dayjobdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
He said speed, skill and size. Though the big guys he does get for the team like Steckel and remind me Allison (Slow, Skill, Slow).
So this year's number 4 center reminds you of that year's number 2 center, and that's a bad thing?

Dayjobdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 12:01 PM
  #78
LordRamsay
Come out and flay
 
LordRamsay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 905
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,277
vCash: 588
I'm sure if Burke could snap his fingers and turn all his forwards into Tim Kerr, he would. As it is, I think they're going in the right direction.

LordRamsay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 12:01 PM
  #79
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Who cares? Burke has improved the prospect pool and team. He'll add toughness when he can.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2012, 11:22 PM
  #80
phillycheesekessel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 68
vCash: 500
Whoever on this page says to fire burke is comfused and doesnt know **** about hockey. If you knew anything about how GMs do their jobs and what Burke HAS accomplished, then you wouldnt complain. Ladies and gentlemen, before Burke we were running a first line of ponikarovsky, blake, and steen! look what we have now!!! You think that in less than 3 years you can turn a dead last place team into stanley cup champs? ITs becuz of fans like these that makes Burke make ads about the players not having to worry about 1967.... Grow up leaf fans and have some support or dont watch

phillycheesekessel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 06:51 AM
  #81
Swervin81
aka LeafsSharksBoy
 
Swervin81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,019
vCash: 500
He said he will. He never said HOW or WHEN. Besides, with the NHL evolving as it is, you can't just play a team full of grinders in a trap system and hope to get away with it before the lockout, but instead, you need players who can combine that brute force with skill and good speed, and those are the rarest breed of players. The Ladds, Clowes, and Doans of this league don't come around every day, and their respective teams would probably trade top prospects or even their better skill players before even considering touching them.

Swervin81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 07:05 AM
  #82
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,573
vCash: 500
How many top 10 picks would fit into the mythical Burke type of player?

We know Kessel does not fit.

If you could use those 3 picks on another player who would it have been?

__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Keon

He was the Leafs' leading scorer in the 1963–64, 1966–67 and 1969–70 seasons, and the team's top goal scorer in 1970–71 and 1972–73. Keon was considered one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, and one of the best defensive forwards of his era.[3] He would usually play against the opposing team's top centre, and developed a reputation for neutralizing some of the league's top scorers. In 1970–71, he scored eight shorthanded goals, setting an NHL record.
ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 08:15 AM
  #83
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbucks View Post
Fire Burke. He didn't deliver the players on HIS team that you deserve.
He never said Fire Burke. Don't be silly. I like the changes Burke is making though I'm disappointed how poorly executed and slowly the changes are coming.

To stay on topic, the poster is saying Burke said one thing and delivered another. And now everyone is defending Burke when the poster point it valid. That is, Burke said - Truculence, size, #1C, I build teams from goaltender out and has not delivered that but has delivered something else. To be fair he has delivered speed and uptempo exciting hockey which he also stated as goals. I just think people thought in 3 years he would be a bit further along. You know like, if someone promised me 5 things and delivered two of them in 3 years I'm not sure I would be too happy. Part of this problem could have be better handled by Burke if he said the rebuild will take 5 years or 10 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
So this year's number 4 center reminds you of that year's number 2 center, and that's a bad thing?
If we are playing pre dead buck hockey of the late 90s/early 2000s I suppose that could work. His speed and grit is not a Burke type player


Last edited by number72: 02-06-2012 at 08:24 AM.
number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 08:20 AM
  #84
Dayjobdave
Registered User
 
Dayjobdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
How many top 10 picks would fit into the mythical Burke type of player?

We know Kessel does not fit.

If you could use those 3 picks on another player who would it have been?
There isn't a better player than Kessel in the league that Burke could have had for those three picks, and a 5 year deal at just over 5 million. Not even close.

Dayjobdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 08:25 AM
  #85
SeenSchenn2
Have Faith GLG
 
SeenSchenn2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Thornhill, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,604
vCash: 500
He mentioned how his philosophy has changed... a while ago

SeenSchenn2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 08:34 AM
  #86
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
There isn't a better player than Kessel in the league that Burke could have had for those three picks, and a 5 year deal at just over 5 million. Not even close.
I'm not saying it was a bad deal, that debate is stale, I'm asking who could possibly have been had for those 3 picks that is would satisfy the mythical truculent, testosterone filled player Burke loves.

Who would be Brendan Shannahan?

ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 08:49 AM
  #87
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeenSchenn2 View Post
He mentioned how his philosophy has changed... a while ago
I heard Burke say he is now moving to a top 9 model instead of a top 6 where speed is a premium. That is part of the reason he put Connolly on the third line (speed issues aside) - to balance offence and experience across the lines.

But I don't think he backed away from truculence. He has said, there is no room in the game for Orr (an unskilled, slow skating enforcer) - but he was a bottom 3 if he ever played. But for Burke, the top 9 needs to be skilled, faster skater, have size and play with grit - more like say a Backes.

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 08:51 AM
  #88
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,796
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
There isn't a better player than Kessel in the league that Burke could have had for those three picks, and a 5 year deal at just over 5 million. Not even close.
He should have kept the picks and drafted Seguin and Hamilton .

Performing better than JFJ isn't that hard to do . Becoming a playoff bubble team isn't much of an accomplishment . The question i ask myself is where is this team headed ?

This team needs a num 1 C , a top 9 player or 2 with some size , grit and skill and a high end all aound D to stabilize our back end .These type of players are hard to come by and don't come cheap ( either in trade or cap hit ) .

It's easier to to talk about the type of team a GM wants than it is to accomplish that feat . Every GM has an ideal type of team , the good GM's can follow through on there goals . Burke spoke non stop about his accellerated re-build and his top 6 bottom 6 way to build a team . When this failed he started yapping about our youth and a top 9 or 8 and a bottom 3 or 4 strategy .

I really don't give a **** what he builds as long as we become an elite team . Right now we arn't one and we need to add quite a few pieces to become one . Burke doesn't have an unlimited time frame to try to build this team . He's already in his 4th year and if he doesn't accomplish this task in the next couple of years , he can get the **** out and we're hire another GM


Last edited by hotpaws: 02-06-2012 at 08:57 AM.
hotpaws is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 08:52 AM
  #89
Dayjobdave
Registered User
 
Dayjobdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I'm not saying it was a bad deal, that debate is stale, I'm asking who could possibly have been had for those 3 picks that is would satisfy the mythical truculent, testosterone filled player Burke loves.

Who would be Brendan Shannahan?
I 100% agree we need that guy (or two of him if we can find them) but I don't see why you connect it to those picks.

That guy wasn't there to be drafted in any of those spots, and that guy, if you are an NHL GM, you don't trade.

I think they have to make him in the lab in the back of the MasterCard Centre.

Dayjobdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 08:56 AM
  #90
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,796
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
I heard Burke say he is now moving to a top 9 model instead of a top 6 where speed is a premium. That is part of the reason he put Connolly on the third line (speed issues aside) - to balance offence and experience across the lines.
Connoly's on the 3rd line because he dosen't fit with PK and Grabo is outplaying him . There's no master plan invovled with moving him down the lines .

hotpaws is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 08:56 AM
  #91
blasted_Sabre
Global Moderator
Warden of the North
 
blasted_Sabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Muskoka
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,788
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
How many top 10 picks would fit into the mythical Burke type of player?

We know Kessel does not fit.

If you could use those 3 picks on another player who would it have been?
A fair amount of this board probably would have taken Kassian as opposed to Kadri.

blasted_Sabre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 08:58 AM
  #92
LordRamsay
Come out and flay
 
LordRamsay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 905
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,277
vCash: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
He should have kept the picks and drafted Seguin and Hamilton .

Performing better than JFJ isn't that hard to do . Becoming a playoff bubble team isn't much of an accomplishment . The question i ask myself is where is this team headed ?

This team needs a num 1 C , a top 9 player or 2 with some size , grit and skill and a high end all aound D to stabilize our back end .These type of players are hard to come by and don't come cheap ( either in trade or cap hit ) .

It's easier to to talk about the type of team a GM wants than it is to accomplish that feat . Every GM has an ideal type of team , the good GM's can follow through on there goals . Burke spoke no stop about his accellerated re-build and his top 6 bottom 6 way to build a team . When this failed he started yapping about our youth and a top 9 or 8 and a bottom 3 or 4 strategy .

I really don't give a **** what he builds as long as we become an elite team . Right now we arn't one and we need to add quite a few pieces to become one . Burke doesn't have an unlimited time frame to try to build this team . He's already in his 4th year and if he doesn't accomplish this task in the next couple of years , he can get the **** out and we're hire another GM
Won't get into the Kessel debate again, but I disagree with the "quite a few pieces". I think, conceivably, this team could be a contender with a legitimate #1 centre that takes Kessel/Lupul to a new level (hard to imagine, I know), and very good/great, CONSISTENT, goaltending. The defense could maybe use another bruiser. but that's less important.

LordRamsay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 09:03 AM
  #93
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
I 100% agree we need that guy (or two of him if we can find them) but I don't see why you connect it to those picks.

That guy wasn't there to be drafted in any of those spots, and that guy, if you are an NHL GM, you don't trade.

I think they have to make him in the lab in the back of the MasterCard Centre.
If I were to look at the organization, Tyler Biggs would be the only hope for that role.

Certainly hope the NCAA is the right development league for him.

ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 09:14 AM
  #94
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,796
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendelsmustache View Post
Won't get into the Kessel debate again, but I disagree with the "quite a few pieces". I think, conceivably, this team could be a contender with a legitimate #1 centre that takes Kessel/Lupul to a new level (hard to imagine, I know), and very good/great, CONSISTENT, goaltending. The defense could maybe use another bruiser. but that's less important.
It depends who those players are . Malkin/Lundqvist would but i don't think a B Richards/Fleury would vault us into an elite type of team .

hotpaws is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 09:14 AM
  #95
Dayjobdave
Registered User
 
Dayjobdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
If I were to look at the organization, Tyler Biggs would be the only hope for that role.

Certainly hope the NCAA is the right development league for him.
I agree he's the leading candidate. I think they were happy he was going the NCAA route because the problem with letting kids that are that feisty come into the league too young is that they can get hurt fighting and lose that edge.

In addition to Biggs, I think they're working on players like Devane, Broll, Ross, etc to be physical forces that can chip in on the ice.

If one of them turns into a Shanahan, well...that would really be too much to ask....but a truculent team that sticks up for itself, goes to the net and has some skill around to score...that could be cool.

Dayjobdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 09:16 AM
  #96
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Connoly's on the 3rd line because he dosen't fit with PK and Grabo is outplaying him . There's no master plan invovled with moving him down the lines .
He is more important to the team on third line then on the first two lines. That is, the return for the team is greater with him on the third line then if he was on the first or second. I think he would improve the first line GA-GF but not enough to make up for the lower production of having Bozak on the third.

Even though Connolly is a better center, the Total GA-GF with Bozak on 1st plus Connolly on third is greater then GA-GF with Connolly on 1st plus Bozak on the third. Good point on the PK but for now I'm giving Burke/Wilson the benefit of doubt on this.

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 09:31 AM
  #97
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,796
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
He is more important to the team on third line then on the first two lines. That is, the return for the team is greater with him on the third line then if he was on the first or second. I think he would improve the first line GA-GF but not enough to make up for the lower production of having Bozak on the third.

Even though Connolly is a better center, the Total GA-GF with Bozak on 1st plus Connolly on third is greater then GA-GF with Connolly on 1st plus Bozak on the third. Good point on the PK but for now I'm giving Burke/Wilson the benefit of doubt on this.
Connoly was bumped down because the Kessel line produces better with Bozak than with him . Grabo is outplaying him and the only spot for him right now is 3rd line C . TC isn't producing anywhere right now , he has 2 assits and is a -6 in his last 12 games . The guys been a dissapointment so far and is exactly the type of player that the Sabre fans said we were getting . He's very talented and will play well and produce in spurts but then he disappears for long stetches .

After Richards he was the next best option , Burke took a chance on him and so far it hasn't worked out . I'm also certain Burke would dump him if he could because the way he's been playing he isn't an asset to any of our lines .

hotpaws is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 09:38 AM
  #98
Leo Trollmarov
I was in the pool!!
 
Leo Trollmarov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
I like the changes Burke is making though I'm disappointed how poorly executed and slowly the changes are coming.


He started with

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2008 Toronto maple Leafs
Jason Blake
Alexei Ponikarovsky
Matt Stajan
Mikhail Grabovski
Nik Antropov
Niklas Hagman
Dominic Moore
Pavel Kubina
Tomas Kaberle
Nikolai Kulemin
Lee Stempniak
John Mitchell
Ian White
Jeff Finger
Jamal Mayers
Luke Schenn
Anton Stralman
Boyd Devereaux
Mike Van Ryn
Jeremy Williams
Jonas Frogren
Jeff Hamilton
Alexander Steen
Jiri Tlust
Brad May
Ryan Hollweg
Phil Oreskovic
Jaime Sifers
Christian Hanson
Carlo Colaiacovo
Andre Deveaux
Jay Harrison
Tim Stapleton
Ben Ondrus
Kris Newbury

Vesa Toskala
Curtis Joseph
Martin Gerber†
Justin Pogge
and in less than 4 years he has a team that is 90% new players
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012 Toronto Maple Leafs

Mikhail Grabovski
Nikolai Kulemin
Clarke MacArthur
Phil Kessel
Tim Connolly
Joffrey Lupul
Colby Armstrong
Tyler Bozak
Matt Frattin
Philippe Dupuis
Matthew Lombardi
Mike Brown
Colton Orr
Jay Rosehill
Dion Phaneuf
Carl Gunnarson
John Michael Liles
Luke Schenn
Jake Gardiner
Mike Komisarek
Cody Franson

James Reimer
Jonas Gustavsson

Leo Trollmarov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 09:38 AM
  #99
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Connoly was bumped down because the Kessel line produces better with Bozak than with him . Grabo is outplaying him and the only spot for him right now is 3rd line C . TC isn't producing anywhere right now , he has 2 assits and is a -6 in his last 12 games . The guys been a dissapointment so far and is exactly the type of player that the Sabre fans said we were getting . He's very talented and will play well and produce in spurts but then he disappears for long stetches .

After Richards he was the next best option , Burke took a chance on him and so far it hasn't worked out . I'm also certain Burke would dump him if he could because the way he's been playing he isn't an asset to any of our lines .
Yah I think you are right and I didn't notice his recent production slump. I'm hoping that picks up but teammates l don't think Connolly is person on the third line, keeping lombardi and crabb's point totals down. He is better defensively then Bozak but Bozak is more physical which is not saying much so I see why Bozak remains on the first.

Burke needs to do something with the center logjam. Will be interesting.

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2012, 09:42 AM
  #100
LordRamsay
Come out and flay
 
LordRamsay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 905
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,277
vCash: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
It depends who those players are . Malkin/Lundqvist would but i don't think a B Richards/Fleury would vault us into an elite type of team .
I'm hoping we already have a goaler that can give us the consistent play we need.

As for the #1 centre, totally agree that Brad Richards wouldn't be the guy. Too bad Malkins don't grow on trees.

LordRamsay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.