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Burke's Team - Not what he promised

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Old
02-06-2012, 12:01 PM
  #176
dougieg93
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I highly doubt that Seguin would have a similar season with the Leafs if they drafted him. Not a chance he would have his plus minus in the same ballpark and I don't think the fans would have been patient with him.

He is a great player - but we got an unbelievable player in return and one that can live up to the pressure and lead the team offensively. i wasn't ok with the trade at the time, but I think you can declare a steal for either team yet.

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Old
02-06-2012, 12:02 PM
  #177
hotpaws
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
His flaw of being not physical. He also used to not skate back, but that is not even close to true this year.

Kessel also played on a team that wasn't nearly as good. yes many of the same players, but they were not a great team, yet.
PK is a soft player and is still weak in his own end ( due mainly to the fact that he's soft ). He's improved his back checking but thats all he's improved from a D standpoint .

Boston was a contending team in PK's final year and Savard was an elite playmaker . He also had Lucic on his line to protect him .

PK's production would improve with a better C but my point still stand that it wouldn't improve his flaws .

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02-06-2012, 12:06 PM
  #178
Leo Trollmarov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
PK is a soft player and is still weak in his own end ( due mainly to the fact that he's soft ). He's improved his back checking but thats all he's improved from a D standpoint .

Boston was a contending team in PK's final year and Savard was an elite playmaker . He also had Lucic on his line to protect him .

PK's production would improve with a better C but my point still stand that it wouldn't improve his flaws .
Phil Kessel, the only player in the NHL with flaws...

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02-06-2012, 12:07 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
His flaw of being not physical. He also used to not skate back, but that is not even close to true this year.

Kessel also played on a team that wasn't nearly as good. yes many of the same players, but they were not a great team, yet.
Kessel was on the ice with Savard... Savard was over a PPG that year. And as someone else stated, that was Kessel's 3rd year. Seguin is currently in his 2nd and doesn't play with anyone of Savards calibre.

I don't see why people can fail to look at this stuff objectively, it's like trying to debate someone that just puts their fingers in their ears and screams their point of view. I'm a Leafs fan, I would definitely PREFER if Kessel was >>> Seguin. But just because I want it doesn't make it so. All ways of analyzing it make Seguin look like he's the better player going forward. Just because there's a better player on another team, doesn't make Kessel a bad player, so I don't see why people feel the need to make him sound better than he is. He's a very dynamic/skilled first line winger.

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02-06-2012, 12:08 PM
  #180
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Both teams got what they wanted from the trade. The only issue is with the fans, there are some that will not be happy no matter what and they are the only ones the continue to bring it up and nit pick.

The Leafs and the majority of their fans are happy with the trade. You don't like it TFB, no one cares. You are more than welcome to go cheer for Boston.

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Old
02-06-2012, 12:08 PM
  #181
hotpaws
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougieg93 View Post
I highly doubt that Seguin would have a similar season with the Leafs if they drafted him. Not a chance he would have his plus minus in the same ballpark and I don't think the fans would have been patient with him.

He is a great player - but we got an unbelievable player in return and one that can live up to the pressure and lead the team offensively. i wasn't ok with the trade at the time, but I think you can declare a steal for either team yet.
His +/- wouldn't be the same but his point production may be higher with increased minutes .

Why wouldn't Leaf fans be patient with him ? People act like we turn on every prospect if someone posts that a pick doesn't have superstar upside .

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02-06-2012, 12:09 PM
  #182
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You know I was hoping with both Seguin and Kessel having phenomenal years that the constant bickering over the trade would end and everyone would just agree both sides got good players and move on with their lives.

SO happy to see I was wrong.....

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Old
02-06-2012, 12:09 PM
  #183
hotpaws
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
Phil Kessel, the only player in the NHL with flaws...
WTF are you trying to say with this post ?

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Old
02-06-2012, 12:11 PM
  #184
Leo Trollmarov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
, so I don't see why people feel the need to make him sound better than he is. He's a very dynamic/skilled first line winger.
He is one of the best (top few) LWer's in the game. People like Hotpaws like to make him seem worse than he is.

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Old
02-06-2012, 12:11 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
WTF are you trying to say with this post ?
How many people questioned Pavel Bure's defense?

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02-06-2012, 12:12 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
WTF are you trying to say with this post ?
You seem to love to point out he has flaws, so what? Every player has flaws, I guess you should start picking each player apart as well.

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02-06-2012, 12:13 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
You know I was hoping with both Seguin and Kessel having phenomenal years that the constant bickering over the trade would end and everyone would just agree both sides got good players and move on with their lives.

SO happy to see I was wrong.....
There are people who just never get it and will never get it, nor much else.

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Old
02-06-2012, 12:19 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
You seem to love to point out he has flaws, so what? Every player has flaws, I guess you should start picking each player apart as well.
Oh no, Seguin doesn't have any flaws...he's an elite point scorer, a franchise player and a future Selke Trophy winner.

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Old
02-06-2012, 12:20 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
You seem to love to point out he has flaws, so what? Every player has flaws, I guess you should start picking each player apart as well.
Someone posted that he had to see PK with a legit num 1 before he would make a final assessment on this trade ( it may have been you , i can't be bothered to go back and check ) .

I just said while his production would probably improve , the type of game he plays wouldn't . Is this point that hard to understand .

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02-06-2012, 12:29 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Someone posted that he had to see PK with a legit num 1 before he would make a final assessment on this trade ( it may have been you , i can't be bothered to go back and check ) .

I just said while his production would probably improve , the type of game he plays wouldn't . Is this point that hard to understand .
No t is very simple, and it doesnt matter. His game is his game, just like every other player. His production would imporve and that is the biggest thing for him and the team. I really don't see the issue.

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02-06-2012, 12:32 PM
  #191
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I dont understand this... The Leafs didn't trade Maskus Naslund for Alex Stojanov. They got a very good, young, affordable player. Kessel is 24, plenty of very good years ahead, NOT injury prone (touch wood), looks like a 40 goal scorer and on a fairly nice contract.

I mean for crying out loud, they didn't get trounced here. In fact, today, as we speak, I'd say they've won the deal for 2 years running now. We'll see where it all ends up, and how Hamilton develops, etc. but even if they did lose the deal they did not get obliterated like some deals.

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02-06-2012, 12:32 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Someone posted that he had to see PK with a legit num 1 before he would make a final assessment on this trade ( it may have been you , i can't be bothered to go back and check ) .

I just said while his production would probably improve , the type of game he plays wouldn't . Is this point that hard to understand .
That's just bias. Kessel is no Toews on defence, but he is improving as he's maturing; no he's not going to drill someone on the boards, but he does backcheck now, taking pucks away occasionally and breaking up the odd play for an offensive chance going the other way. A far cry from what he was before in Boston and the stigma that so many people continue to happily label him with.

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02-06-2012, 12:39 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
PK played on a legit first line with the B's in his 3rd year and Segs is outpacing him this year playing with lesser skilled players in his 2nd year . He's also a better all around player .

PK's a very skilled player but having a quality num 1 c won't improve his flaws .
BUT.................................

if you total the sum of:

the stats of Kessel playing in his 3rd year with the stats of Seguin playing in his second year

TO THAT OF

apples and oranges

IT WOULD EQUAL

Who gives a ****!!! It's apples and oranges!

A #1C won't come in an magically make Kessel a better defensive player but that #1C being better defensively woudl actually improve Kessel's defensive stats!

A guy with a great +/- on a team with a lot of players with high plus minus's to me is not as important TO THE LEAFS as a player who leads his team in goals/pts and is among the highest pointproducers in the league. We needed a Phil Kessel, got one and NOW WE need a Tyler Seguin! It was an order of importance!

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02-06-2012, 12:52 PM
  #194
hotpaws
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
No t is very simple, and it doesnt matter. His game is his game, just like every other player. His production would imporve and that is the biggest thing for him and the team. I really don't see the issue.
I don't know what you're arguing . I responded to a post by Darkhorse ( i went back and checked ) that said he couldn't assess PK as a player until he played with a num 1 C . I said this wouldn't affect the type of game he played and you're agreeing with me , so i don't know what your issues are .

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Old
02-06-2012, 01:04 PM
  #195
hotpaws
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Originally Posted by Superstar View Post
That's just bias. Kessel is no Toews on defence, but he is improving as he's maturing; no he's not going to drill someone on the boards, but he does backcheck now, taking pucks away occasionally and breaking up the odd play for an offensive chance going the other way. A far cry from what he was before in Boston and the stigma that so many people continue to happily label him with.
PK back checks when the plays near him . He doesn't back check like Kul does on almost every play . This idea he's become some backchecking demon is false . He's soft play is a major reason that line gets pinned in our end .

He's a very skilled sniper with a high hockey IQ but for some reason people try to make him out to be more than he is .

Also , this has nothing to do with me hating Kessel , i really like the guy and think he's a hell of an offensive player but that doesn't change my opinion that we'd be better off with Seguin and Hamilton .

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02-06-2012, 01:04 PM
  #196
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Sounds like Seguin is the only player that is the by product of his team's success.

Funny, how he would suck without Chara!
First time I've ever heard of that, not even Lidstrom is given credit for his forward's success.

Last year Seguin was a bust, this year his point totals and +- is because he's playing with Boston.

Next year if he wins the Rocket Richard, Art Ross, Conn Smythe etc.
I wonder what Leafs nation would come up with? Its maybe the Ugly yellow uniform that blinds the goalies...

Bottom line is Seguin is a franchise player on the Boston Bruins (a top team) they havn't had a center like this in quite a while. He's good right now, and going to get a lot better. All this doesn't make make Kessel suck!

Stop being so insecure, the Leafs F-ed up on the trade, but we didn't get a crap player in return.

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02-06-2012, 01:06 PM
  #197
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Imo I like this style better.

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02-06-2012, 01:08 PM
  #198
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delete


Last edited by LordRamsay: 02-06-2012 at 01:20 PM. Reason: I never learn.
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02-06-2012, 01:13 PM
  #199
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Are we really revisiting the Kessel trade!?



Put this thread out of its misery and lock it already.....

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02-06-2012, 01:15 PM
  #200
L Corncrick
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It's really smart to keep promises you made in the past if it happens that keeping them will be worse for everyone.

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