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Old
02-06-2012, 10:40 AM
  #76
Horseradish
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Because of two games?

I would love to be wrong about Gagner.

But lets wait and see how it goes for the rest of the season.

He has a tendency to go on hot streaks and then he will disappear for twenty games.
Penis-measuring contest aside, you actually think/thought Cogliano is/was better than Gagner as recently as this past summer?

For real?? I could've understood it after their rookie years, but after the 3 years that followed??

Cogliano is smaller, weaker, has lesser skills with the puck, can't win a face-off to save his life, and has always been a product of his linemates. Gagner has always driven the play and guys have always produced on his line at least on par with expectations, but usually higher (ie, Potter, Brule, Cogs, Nilsson). Despite being small-ish and slower-ish, I can't think of a time where I even considered Cogliano to be more useful, let alone as recently as this summer.

Really???! Either you HATE Gags or have a totally irrational infatuation with Cogs.

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02-06-2012, 10:43 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
I don't believe he's as bad of a GM as many of you guys believe.

He dumped some contracts that needed dumping... (Staois Moreau Nilsson n company).

Got the AHL team where it needs to be.

Traded the right smurf, canned MacT, promoted Stu, and made Lombardi his bizzniatch.

He's been atrocious in some areas, but hes not been nearly at all bad as some of you posters make him out to be.
You lost me at bizzniatch.

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02-06-2012, 10:57 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Because of two games?

I would love to be wrong about Gagner.

But lets wait and see how it goes for the rest of the season.

He has a tendency to go on hot streaks and then he will disappear for twenty games.
I'm not sure if you supported keeping Cogs over Gagner. Besides two hot games, the fact that Sam is doing faceoffs at over 48% this year and Cogs is still floundering at 40ish% is all I need to know for who is making progress.

A large chunk of their futures rely on their ability in the dot and one guy clearly isn't ready to put the work in to make that happen.

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02-06-2012, 11:00 AM
  #79
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It's quite obvious now that ST had no intentions of making the playoffs this year and that Katz knew this going into the year.

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02-06-2012, 11:06 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by OneMoreAstronaut View Post
Exactly. Tambo has done quite a few things that amazed people at the time. But when the team loses in spite of those great moves, then after a while people forget about them or how important they were. Or that he isn't responsible for past poor moves, ie: the Horcoff contract.

There's only so much you can do when you begin your career as the GM of a crappy team. Not every team need can be magically traded for at the drop of a hat. But he has made some pretty stupendous moves in his tenure nonetheless.
Well, I don't think he's terrible, just consistently well-below average.

So, that said, name ONE move he has made that amazed anybody?

The ONLY 3 things he's done, which weren't slam dunks basically lobbed to him (like Smyth's trade), which have amazed me:

Pat Quinn
Cole for O'Sullivan
Khabibulin

Granted, he hasn't done anything awful since early in his time here, buttt...

He waited 2-3 years before signing a useful two-way centre in Belanger. Certainly not his fault Belanger is having a very subpar year.

We are still waiting...going on 3 years...for a full lineup of NHL-calibre d-men. And given that Whitney, Gilbert, Smid, Petry, Potter, and Peckham are all under contract for next year, it looks like we will continue to wait. That lineup, healthy, is probably better than 3-4 d corps in the league. And neither Sutton nor Barker change that all that much.

We literally have a black hole for a 4th line. I love Lander and Petrell but they simply aren't NHL calibre guys yet. They get obliterated by opposing 4th lines routinely.

So no, he has done nothing that has amazed me. Not even close. Though it's certainly better than Lowe's later years when he gave away a useful Brodziak for bupkis, traded a ridiculously talented young d-man in Pitkanen for one year of Erik Cole, signed Horc's contract, or let Smyth walk over 100K. Mind you, Lowe's earlier coups regularly amazed me, so...

Anyway, no, Tambellini is inept at addressing team needs. Even on Oil Change they mentioned how he was getting Belanger because Renney requested one. If he couldn't tell that this team badly needed another centre, then I don't know what to say. That's incompetence of epic proportions.

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02-06-2012, 11:07 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by RustE View Post
have you been in Cabo the last 2 weeks? they've won 4 of 5, 9 points out of 10. they are 13 points ahead of 30th place and 4 points behind 23rd Tampa. they will finish anywhere for 29th to 23rd, but no chance of 30th. I'm gonna guess 26th or 25th.

If not for the injuries, they would easily be 8 points better (2 wins, 4 singles), which would put them in 10th place in the West, 3 back of 8th.

face it. you're just angry and want a head to roll.
Yeah, no kidding.

Some people love to complain just for the sake of complaining. I understand that the last 3 seasons have been rough but if people don't see that this team is making some progress then they must be watching something different than what i'm seeing.

The team still has a long way to go obviously but there is definitely an upward trend starting here and IMO, it's just a matter of time until this team really starts to take off. I've been saying this since before the current 5 game point streak that they have been on.

I think that this year is setting up perfectly considering what the expectations were going into the season. If they can continue to play strong in the second half and still get a top prospect in the 5-8 range and lets face it, this is the type of draft where we can get a prospect in that range that might very well turn out to be better than the ones in the 3-5 range.
That would be perfect going into the offseason and signal to free agents that this team is headed in the right direction.


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02-06-2012, 11:19 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Yeah, no kidding.

Some people love to complain just for the sake of complaining. I understand that the last 3 seasons have been rough but if people don't see that this team is making some progress then they must be watching something different than what i'm seeing.

The team still has a long way to go obviously but there is definitely an upward trend starting here and IMO, it's just a matter of time until this team really starts to take off. I've been saying this since before the current 5 game point streak that they have been on.
Nonsense. They, quite easily, could have lost every one of those games. They were outshot and outchanced in every single one of them. Even the worse team's are going to get hot once in a while.

Give an 8 year old 3 top-10 picks in a row on top of another top-6 pick a couple of years earlier and he could get this team going in the "right direction". Hell, Doug MacLean got his team to a Stanley Cup Final, and I'd still rather have an 8 year old.

The problem I see with Tambo is that he is flat-out BAD at assessing team needs. This team hasn't even come close to dressing an adequate NHL d-corps for 3 seasons. This team, until this year, didn't have enough depth at centre for almost 4 years. This team still has one of the worst 4th lines in the league, and has for a good 3-4 years as well.

What HAS he done, on his own volition, that has addressed a team need in his time here, other than get rid of bad contracts and draft useful first rounders?

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02-06-2012, 11:21 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Well, I don't think he's terrible, just consistently well-below average.

So, that said, name ONE move he has made that amazed anybody?

The ONLY 3 things he's done, which weren't slam dunks basically lobbed to him (like Smyth's trade), which have amazed me:

Pat Quinn
Cole for O'Sullivan
Khabibulin

Granted, he hasn't done anything awful since early in his time here, buttt...

He waited 2-3 years before signing a useful two-way centre in Belanger. Certainly not his fault Belanger is having a very subpar year.

We are still waiting...going on 3 years...for a full lineup of NHL-calibre d-men. And given that Whitney, Gilbert, Smid, Petry, Potter, and Peckham are all under contract for next year, it looks like we will continue to wait. That lineup, healthy, is probably better than 3-4 d corps in the league. And neither Sutton nor Barker change that all that much.

We literally have a black hole for a 4th line. I love Lander and Petrell but they simply aren't NHL calibre guys yet. They get obliterated by opposing 4th lines routinely.

So no, he has done nothing that has amazed me. Not even close. Though it's certainly better than Lowe's later years when he gave away a useful Brodziak for bupkis, traded a ridiculously talented young d-man in Pitkanen for one year of Erik Cole, signed Horc's contract, or let Smyth walk over 100K. Mind you, Lowe's earlier coups regularly amazed me, so...

Anyway, no, Tambellini is inept at addressing team needs. Even on Oil Change they mentioned how he was getting Belanger because Renney requested one. If he couldn't tell that this team badly needed another centre, then I don't know what to say. That's incompetence of epic proportions.

Well, for starters, he dumped Dustin Penner for two 1st round picks and a 3rd. Based on how Penner has played this year alone, I'd say it's pretty freaking amazing. Klefbom looks really good, and I see some potential in Teubert.

Any team that's rebuilding needs to start with a solid farm system. The Oilers simply didn't have one, having reduced it to rubble before Tambellini got here. He stated it would be rebuilt, and based on last years performance and this years results, I'd say they are on track and possibly ahead. The big league results of that won't be felt for another year or 3, but once it gets rolling, the depth will be there for us. And that includes coaches.

You also need to look at positive things that a GM DOESN'T do. A lot of people on here wouldn't have shed a tear if Smid or Gilbert was traded away before this year started. But the org had faith in them that they'd come around and that faith has been rewarded in spades with both having solid seasons.

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Old
02-06-2012, 11:36 AM
  #84
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Well, for starters, he dumped Dustin Penner for two 1st round picks and a 3rd. Based on how Penner has played this year alone, I'd say it's pretty freaking amazing. Klefbom looks really good, and I see some potential in Teubert.

Any team that's rebuilding needs to start with a solid farm system. The Oilers simply didn't have one, having reduced it to rubble before Tambellini got here. He stated it would be rebuilt, and based on last years performance and this years results, I'd say they are on track and possibly ahead. The big league results of that won't be felt for another year or 3, but once it gets rolling, the depth will be there for us. And that includes coaches.

You also need to look at positive things that a GM DOESN'T do. A lot of people on here wouldn't have shed a tear if Smid or Gilbert was traded away before this year started. But the org had faith in them that they'd come around and that faith has been rewarded in spades with both having solid seasons.
Well, frankly, I'd rather have Penner than Smyth. Some players just don't work out in certain systems. Jochen Hecht wasn't a fit here but you'd be hard pressed to suggest he hasn't had a fine career before that and since.

Anyway, a middling former first rounder with limited upside and a mid-late first rounder for a guy with a year and a bit left on his contract isn't such a special return, especially when the guy was consistently a 25 goal, 50+ point beast who could skate.

Also, building a decent AHL roster by spending more money than most team's are willing to spend isn't so difficult. As Scott from Coppernblue (I think it was him) recently pointed out, the Oilers graduated a LOT of very talented players from the AHL even when they didn't have a team of their own. Does a skilled AHL squad even mean that much? It certainly didn't for the Oilers in the 90s, unless Peter White, Ralph Intranuovo and Micah Aivazoff get your blood pumping.

Finally, even though fans like their meat and potatoes Jason Smith-types, it was very clear in the off-season that our D was absolute crap and that Gilbert was the second best of them. Trading him for a lesser d-man who "hits more" would have been pure stupidity, so I'm not going to praise Tambo for not being retarded.

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02-06-2012, 11:50 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Well, frankly, I'd rather have Penner than Smyth. Some players just don't work out in certain systems. Jochen Hecht wasn't a fit here but you'd be hard pressed to suggest he hasn't had a fine career before that and since.

Anyway, a middling former first rounder with limited upside and a mid-late first rounder for a guy with a year and a bit left on his contract isn't such a special return, especially when the guy was consistently a 25 goal, 50+ point beast who could skate.

Also, building a decent AHL roster by spending more money than most team's are willing to spend isn't so difficult. As Scott from Coppernblue (I think it was him) recently pointed out, the Oilers graduated a LOT of very talented players from the AHL even when they didn't have a team of their own. Does a skilled AHL squad even mean that much? It certainly didn't for the Oilers in the 90s, unless Peter White, Ralph Intranuovo and Micah Aivazoff get your blood pumping.

Finally, even though fans like their meat and potatoes Jason Smith-types, it was very clear in the off-season that our D was absolute crap and that Gilbert was the second best of them. Trading him for a lesser d-man who "hits more" would have been pure stupidity, so I'm not going to praise Tambo for not being retarded.
Penner has FOUR goals this year, playing with a lot of supposedly very talented players on a very good team. After he was traded last year, he pumped in TWO goals in 23 games. So good in the playoffs, he was benched and then called out by his GM in the off season. And THIS is his response? And you seriously would rather have him than Smyth? Just getting rid of Penner for nothing is amazing based on what he's "accomplished" since moving.
Based on what I've seen of Teubert, he will add some nice depth and size to our d-core. And Klefbom has solid potential to be a top 4. That 3rd rounder can be used for more depth or help in moving up in a future trade. How that trade doesn't appear to scream out "win-win" to you is beyond explanation.

The Oilers have NEVER had a top AHL farm team. Does a skilled AHL farm team ever mean much, you ask? Well Ottawa had the top team last year, and then graduated a few players from it, and they seem to be doing okay this year. Good farm teams promote winning at a high level, and development of players without destroying their confidence. If the Oilers farm system was ahead by one more year or two in it's development, Anton Lander would probably be down there this year. There is no bad that can come from having a great farm system. Nothing but positives. Again, if you are unable to see that, I can't help. Development doesn't happen overnight, despite how many times you want to stomp your feet and whine about why it's not here now.

As for Gilbert and Smid, it's very easy for you to sit back with the benefit of hindsight and say we would have gotten back something inferior for Smid or Gilbert. Fact is, up till this year, you can't argue, many fans would have welcomed getting rid of at least one of them.


You don't like Tambellini, and that's obvious. But to bury your head in the sand, and not try to at least balance your logic a bit is ridiculous.


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02-06-2012, 11:52 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Nonsense. They, quite easily, could have lost every one of those games. They were outshot and outchanced in every single one of them. Even the worse team's are going to get hot once in a while.

Give an 8 year old 3 top-10 picks in a row on top of another top-6 pick a couple of years earlier and he could get this team going in the "right direction". Hell, Doug MacLean got his team to a Stanley Cup Final, and I'd still rather have an 8 year old.

The problem I see with Tambo is that he is flat-out BAD at assessing team needs. This team hasn't even come close to dressing an adequate NHL d-corps for 3 seasons. This team, until this year, didn't have enough depth at centre for almost 4 years. This team still has one of the worst 4th lines in the league, and has for a good 3-4 years as well.

What HAS he done, on his own volition, that has addressed a team need in his time here, other than get rid of bad contracts and draft useful first rounders?
Nonsense??? They could have easily won some games earlier in the season when they outplayed the opponent but had meltdowns and blew the leads. That goes both ways.
Fine, you can go ahead and think that this team is in an abyss if you want but IMO, the team has improved this season in many categories and now the wins are starting to show up a bit more lately so yes, there has been progress and the team appears to be on somewhat of an upward trend. Only time will tell if this team is indeed starting to come together or if this recent 5 games stretch is just a fluke. I happen to think that the team in general is a lot more competitive than in the last 2 seasons so it's only a matter of time until the wins start showing up more regularly.

So lets see, what has Tambo done? He helped bring the farm team from non-existent to a powerhouse in a matter of 3 seasons which is vital for the development of our current and future youngsters, that's no small feat and gets glossed over by many folks.
He got rid of a lot of dead weight to the point now that the team is really only stuck with 1 albatross contract, Horcoff and will have some cap flexibility going forward.

The needs going into the offseason were lack of veteran leadership, 2 way 3rd line center that can take some of the faceoff duties away from Horcoff and toughness in the bottom 6 and on defense.
He brought in Smyth for the veteran leadership, Belanger for the 3rd line C (a guy who was a consistent 35-40 pt player before this season), Eager and Hordichuk to fill the bottom 6 toughness and Sutton to add toughness on the blueline.
It's up to the coach to harness the abilities of those players and Renney has seemed to fail at that thus far.
The Penner trade looks good right now, he has helped stock the cupboards with good prospects by giving Stu more picks to work with. The extra 2nd rounders in the 2010 draft immediately come to mind.

Yes, he should have brought in a top 4 defenseman but that's not so easy for a team with limited tradeable assets and if you think that it would have been so easy, give me the assets that the Oilers could have traded for a legit top 4 defenseman.

He's not perfect by any means and he has made some notable mistakes including the Heatley debacle although IMO, that was more Lowe and Katz than Tambo, giving Khabibulin too many years, the O'Sullivan, Cole and Kotalik moves, Foster, waiting too long to trade Hemsky.
So he has made mistakes but he has also made some good moves as well so i take issue with posters who claim that he has done nothing good for the organization.


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02-06-2012, 11:54 AM
  #87
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Could one really call a 2 yr deal an extension?

Looks more like a severance package if you ask me.

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02-06-2012, 11:56 AM
  #88
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Well, frankly, I'd rather have Penner than Smyth. Some players just don't work out in certain systems. Jochen Hecht wasn't a fit here but you'd be hard pressed to suggest he hasn't had a fine career before that and since.

Anyway, a middling former first rounder with limited upside and a mid-late first rounder for a guy with a year and a bit left on his contract isn't such a special return, especially when the guy was consistently a 25 goal, 50+ point beast who could skate.

Also, building a decent AHL roster by spending more money than most team's are willing to spend isn't so difficult. As Scott from Coppernblue (I think it was him) recently pointed out, the Oilers graduated a LOT of very talented players from the AHL even when they didn't have a team of their own. Does a skilled AHL squad even mean that much? It certainly didn't for the Oilers in the 90s, unless Peter White, Ralph Intranuovo and Micah Aivazoff get your blood pumping.

Finally, even though fans like their meat and potatoes Jason Smith-types, it was very clear in the off-season that our D was absolute crap and that Gilbert was the second best of them. Trading him for a lesser d-man who "hits more" would have been pure stupidity, so I'm not going to praise Tambo for not being retarded.
Penner starting playing like garbage before we traded him, I have no use for that Penner or the one that has played for the Kings. I would also MUCH rather have Smyth than THAT Penner.

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02-06-2012, 11:58 AM
  #89
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Could one really call a 2 yr deal an extension?

Looks more like a severance package if you ask me.
It's an extension but it also says "Now let's see if you can improve this team via trades and FA signings".

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02-06-2012, 11:58 AM
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Could one really call a 2 yr deal an extension?

Looks more like a severance package if you ask me.

I think it's an ultimatum.

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02-06-2012, 12:09 PM
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So has an actual extension been given to Steve?

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02-06-2012, 12:43 PM
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Penner starting playing like garbage before we traded him, I have no use for that Penner or the one that has played for the Kings. I would also MUCH rather have Smyth than THAT Penner.
Than "that" Penner, yes. But it's not as though Penner's talent just ran out or something. It seems obvious that the LA system just doesnt work for him. Much like how Edmonton's just didn't work for Lupul (or Hecht or Cole, for example). He was consistently at least a useful 2nd line winger for us who played against tough opposition.

I was just saying that for a guy who plays the toughest opposition, can play special team's decently, and puts up 25 goals and 50+ points (that's what he was when we dealt him), that a former first with limited upside, a mid-1st in a weaker draft, and a 3rd aren't stellar. It's good enough but it's hardly an amazing feat. When you look at what Smyth returned, for only 20+ games until UFA (one former first rounder who was NHL ready and produced fairly well in his first couple seasons here in Nilsson; another first rounder with limited upside in O'Marra; and another 1st), that's more impressive to me. Sure, Penner wasn't at the level of Smyth, but Penner had one full season more under contract and at 55-60 points in the role of first line LW, he wasn't *that* far off of what Smyth was.

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02-06-2012, 12:45 PM
  #93
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Weve won what, three games in a row?

This is the kind of stuff that gets laughed at.
?? If you want to laugh at me for posting the truth, then laugh away. I merely stated that this team will not be a 30th place team if it stays healthy, and i stand by that. I'd rather be laughed at once or twice than on a daily basis like some that post...hint hint. If you find the truth funny, then knock yourself out. The facts remain as facts however.

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02-06-2012, 12:52 PM
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But being completely healthy all year is a fantasy and you know it. Every team sustains injuries and when you have people on your team that are injury prone (Hemsky) and your best dman coming back from a severe injury and have no idea if/when he'll be healthy enough to get into form again, there are pre-existing problems that inevetibly will rear their ugly heads as the season goes on. The biggest problem this team has right now above all else is lack of depth. I've said it a million times on here. And that takes time, as they continue to build the farm system and develop talent. This doesn't happen overnight. But to say they are a good team without depth is a fools game in this league or any other.
Agreed that we are weak on the defensive depth, but no one could have predicted the downward slide of MPS, nor the no show ability by Omark. Belanger hasn't had a great year compared to his past seasons either. Not only that, but we've had injuries to key players again. If your best players are going out for the count, then you'll run into some obvious issues. Add to that some injuries and suspensions to your stabalizing vet guys (ie. Barker and Sutton for example) and the team obviously suffers.

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02-06-2012, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Than "that" Penner, yes. But it's not as though Penner's talent just ran out or something. It seems obvious that the LA system just doesnt work for him. Much like how Edmonton's just didn't work for Lupul (or Hecht or Cole, for example). He was consistently at least a useful 2nd line winger for us who played against tough opposition.

I was just saying that for a guy who plays the toughest opposition, can play special team's decently, and puts up 25 goals and 50+ points (that's what he was when we dealt him), that a former first with limited upside, a mid-1st in a weaker draft, and a 3rd aren't stellar. It's good enough but it's hardly an amazing feat. When you look at what Smyth returned, for only 20+ games until UFA (one former first rounder who was NHL ready and produced fairly well in his first couple seasons here in Nilsson; another first rounder with limited upside in O'Marra; and another 1st), that's more impressive to me. Sure, Penner wasn't at the level of Smyth, but Penner had one full season more under contract and at 55-60 points in the role of first line LW, he wasn't *that* far off of what Smyth was.

Nillson was a sham - he's long gone from the NHL. O'Marra MIGHT be a 4th line centre, and his time is running out. Alex Plante is also running out of chances. Right now, that trade is a big 0 for 3. The one for Penner has much more promise.

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02-06-2012, 07:20 PM
  #96
Horseradish
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
Nillson was a sham - he's long gone from the NHL. O'Marra MIGHT be a 4th line centre, and his time is running out. Alex Plante is also running out of chances. Right now, that trade is a big 0 for 3. The one for Penner has much more promise.
The point remains. The return for Smyth was significant. The return for Penner was less so, and it was for almost as useful a player, and for an extra year on his contract.

Both trades were decent, I'm just saying the return for Smyth was better. That was when Nilsson was considered a very solid prospect, O'Marra wasn't as tracking as well as they hoped he would, but still not bad...and a mid-round first was pretty solid, they just ****ed it up with Prendergast making the pick.

I'd say Teubert and O'Marra are/were tracking similarly. Not as well as you'd hope for a mid-1st rounder, but looking like they'd be NHLers.

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02-07-2012, 10:46 PM
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Kyle McMahon
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Originally Posted by Arpeggio View Post
How you figure this team is going to finish dead last is beyond me.
Yes, this team looks like a strong bet to finish no lower than 14th place. So shoot me.

The fact that we're in contention for a lottery pick for the third year in a row is deplorable.

I know it's trendy to think that you have to suck before you become good, but the fact remains that this is a complete myth and a losers mentality. Amassing high draft picks has a much higher rate of failure than success. Paid off for Pittsburgh, who landed the best prospect of the last 20 years. Didn't work so well for Columbus, Atlanta, Florida, NY Islanders. And I must have missed where Detroit, Boston, San Jose, and Vancouver all tanked for years in a row in order to get to where they're at.

This is a results based business, and Tambo's really couldn't be any worse. Three years of garbage is more than enough.

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