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Mike Richards playing injured ? [All Posts re: the Mike Richards Debate Go in Here]

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Old
02-16-2012, 08:19 PM
  #226
Johnny Utah
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Telos, there are a lot of "if's" in your Richards response. If he doesn't do any of those then what?

Because Simmonds "is" doing it right now.

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02-16-2012, 09:08 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Telos, there are a lot of "if's" in your Richards response. If he doesn't do any of those then what?

Because Simmonds "is" doing it right now.
There are no ifs, Richards is a top 15 center in the NHL. You are complaining like literally 10 seconds into the deal. Simmonds soaking up points on one of the best offenses in the league has little to do with a banged up Richards missing out on points on the worst offense in the league and one of the worst in Kings history.

Richards has already proven himself. Go watch the 2010 playoffs. Simmonds has proven jack ****. Let's see how he does in the playoffs. Either way, Richards will be fine in LA, are you insinuating that we will have the worst offence in the NHL for the next 8 years? It will rebound, regime change or not and so will Richards' numbers. I don't think anyone in the league wouldn't laugh in your face if you brought up Simmonds as a comparable to Mike Richards. You are on a lonely plank out there, you and tomd, making sure we have second to second coverage of Simmonds' performance, dreaming of having him over Richards.

Your stats are meaningless, they pale in comparison to what Richards has already proven. Your assumption that he will now be a 40 point injured deadbeat for the rest of his life is mind-boggling. Your fanciful dreams of third line glory wouldn't have helped us not be dead last in offense. If we had Simmonds and Schenn, we would be in the same predicament.

Still, you will likely never live this down on these boards. You are betting against one of the best players in the game, he will rebound, and you will never hear the end of it, just like we will never hear about how a third liner and a prospect were traded for one of the best two way players in the game at such an inopportune time for you.

There's no doubt about it. Richards is our top 2 center for another 8 years for very good reason. You're the one grasping at "ifs" to believe that he won't produce again because he is struggling on this team, right now, along with every single other player on the roster.

Even you said that you would have done the deal if the Kings were in a better position, which is absolutely laughable because your solution to put us in a better position is a third liner. It is much easier to acquire a third liner over a player of Richards' caliber. You don't get to pick and choose when these types of deals become available. I would rather flounder a year with Mike Richards and lack of bottom 6 depth over pass on the top 2 center, flounder with good depth, and then hope to pick up a player of that caliber later on. Not that it matters, because personnel isn't the reason we are playing so poorly.

What do you think of a player like Doughty? Similar predicament as Richards. Top 15 of his position, nominated for a major award, fantastic playoff performer and battler - he has a concussion and some other various injuries, fights to get back into things, also struggling and putting up terrible statistics with a big contract playing with the worst offense in the league. I can think of a quite a few defensemen that are having a better year than Doughty. Does that make them superior players than Doughty? We can play the statistics game all day. This guy scored this or that, but if you have no perspective of the situation, all you are going to be is lost. Is Wideman or Streit vastly superior defensemen over Doughty like their stats indicate? Or are there other circumstances at work that help them to produce more this season over Drew?

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02-16-2012, 09:15 PM
  #228
Ziggy Stardust
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Simmonds has more goals than any other Kings player. Would that mean he'd be the best player on the Kings had he not been dealt? I somehow doubt he'd be a 20 goal scorer here. You know how it goes.

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02-16-2012, 09:22 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
'member when Fleury, Oates, St. Louis, and Doug Gilmore were too frail and too small? M. Richards is bigger than any of them. Of course, he's got the concussion virus. I'm just saying he's won an awful lot of league championships. All of them but the Cup, right? So, he's got something big he still needs to add to the quiver. Let's add determination to the mix. Not quite as bad a bet as you spin.

Of course, you think it sucks. To be a Kings fan.
I feel this can be slightly misleading. Richards has been on a lot of championship winning teams but if you break it down a little more and look at his role on these teams it's less impressive. Mike Richards was to his championship teams what Chris Drury was to the Avs cup winning team. A productive key part but never one of the centerpieces. Even when the Flyers made it to the Cup Finals Pronger, Briere, and Giroux were the top 3 players for the run.

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02-16-2012, 09:23 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Simmonds has more goals than any other Kings player. Would that mean he'd be the best player on the Kings had he not been dealt? I somehow doubt he'd be a 20 goal scorer here. You know how it goes.
No, he would have the same number of ES goals as he has now. Maybe less.

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02-16-2012, 09:25 PM
  #231
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i fyou look at the video of all of simmonds pp goals there all just tap ins from the front of the net.

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02-16-2012, 09:28 PM
  #232
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Max Talbot has 16 goals.. Maybe we can trade Richards back to Philly for him! I'm sure he'll keep up that pace here.

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02-16-2012, 09:30 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
i fyou look at the video of all of simmonds pp goals there all just tap ins from the front of the net.
That isn't exactly a bad thing. Simmonds is being used as a pure power forward in Philadelphia he is almost always in front of the net. Almost all 20 of his goals are from point blank. He is emerging as one of the stronger offensive players in the crease.

His role is actually identical to what they Flyers did with Mike Knuble years ago when he was a 25-35 goal scorer almost all in front of the net. This would actually help the Kings a bit since they get off a lot of shots but don't get a lot of pucks in the net. He cleans up a lot of rebounds.

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02-16-2012, 09:38 PM
  #234
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I feel this can be slightly misleading. Richards has been on a lot of championship winning teams but if you break it down a little more and look at his role on these teams it's less impressive. Mike Richards was to his championship teams what Chris Drury was to the Avs cup winning team. A productive key part but never one of the centerpieces. Even when the Flyers made it to the Cup Finals Pronger, Briere, and Giroux were the top 3 players for the run.
Richards captained the Rangers to a memorial cup, captained the World Cup juniors to gold, led the Phantoms to a Calder Cup and won Olympic gold. he's the only player in the NHL whose done that. And that's not luck, it's due to leadership.
'A productive part but never one o fthe centerpieces'...that's laughable.

I watched how he became the driving force behind that Phantoms team that won the Calder Cup and watched him evolve into one of the best two way playres in the game, a leader who thrives under pressure. In his short tenure as a lettered leader for the Flyers he lead them to two Eastern Conf. finals and a STanley Cup FinaL

He and Chris Pronger were the best players on the ice for that 2010 Cup run. Since your argument seems to be based solely on points, (I believe more in winning, heart, hustle , defensive studness and clutch play) he was the Flyers leader point producer until the Finals started.

Without Mike Richards, that team would have NEVER gotten out of NJ. He was the best skater on the ice during that devils series, he played his balls off. The Devils were first in the conference and heavily favored, esp. due to Brodeur. Most analysts didn't give the Flyers, the 8th seed, a chance. But somebody forgot to tell that to Mike Richards. One of the local sports radio guys, Al Morganti, warned not to take the FLyers lightly because Richards would play like a 'beast unleashed' , and he did. he dominated every shift, antagnized, distracted and annoyed Parise and Kovulchuck and unnerved them off their game. The Flyers took that series in 5 games

He stood down CHara for 7 games against Boston and neutralzied him, despite the fact Chara was a foot taller and 80 lbs heavier, Richards never gave an inch. Not just the 9 points in 7 games he put up, but physically dominating every shift to which Briere commented that the players on the bench saw what he did and couldn't wait to get their shift to live uip to that standard. When questioned by a Canadian tv crew post game 6 of that series that the Flyers rallied from behind, the reporter asked JVR about the Flyers odds of 'winning a seemingly impossible war' and without pausing, JVR said 'we didn't set out to win a war. Richie said just to win the battles, to win every shift' then he nodded and said 'and that's what he did, so we did too."


Leadership is a lot more than goals...and the Kings will find out from April outward during the playoffs why he's won championships at every level he's played at.


Last edited by deeshamrock: 02-16-2012 at 09:43 PM.
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Old
02-16-2012, 10:35 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
Richards captained the Rangers to a memorial cup, captained the World Cup juniors to gold, led the Phantoms to a Calder Cup and won Olympic gold. he's the only player in the NHL whose done that. And that's not luck, it's due to leadership.
'A productive part but never one o fthe centerpieces'...that's laughable.

I watched how he became the driving force behind that Phantoms team that won the Calder Cup and watched him evolve into one of the best two way playres in the game, a leader who thrives under pressure. In his short tenure as a lettered leader for the Flyers he lead them to two Eastern Conf. finals and a STanley Cup FinaL

He and Chris Pronger were the best players on the ice for that 2010 Cup run. Since your argument seems to be based solely on points, (I believe more in winning, heart, hustle , defensive studness and clutch play) he was the Flyers leader point producer until the Finals started.

Without Mike Richards, that team would have NEVER gotten out of NJ. He was the best skater on the ice during that devils series, he played his balls off. The Devils were first in the conference and heavily favored, esp. due to Brodeur. Most analysts didn't give the Flyers, the 8th seed, a chance. But somebody forgot to tell that to Mike Richards. One of the local sports radio guys, Al Morganti, warned not to take the FLyers lightly because Richards would play like a 'beast unleashed' , and he did. he dominated every shift, antagnized, distracted and annoyed Parise and Kovulchuck and unnerved them off their game. The Flyers took that series in 5 games

He stood down CHara for 7 games against Boston and neutralzied him, despite the fact Chara was a foot taller and 80 lbs heavier, Richards never gave an inch. Not just the 9 points in 7 games he put up, but physically dominating every shift to which Briere commented that the players on the bench saw what he did and couldn't wait to get their shift to live uip to that standard. When questioned by a Canadian tv crew post game 6 of that series that the Flyers rallied from behind, the reporter asked JVR about the Flyers odds of 'winning a seemingly impossible war' and without pausing, JVR said 'we didn't set out to win a war. Richie said just to win the battles, to win every shift' then he nodded and said 'and that's what he did, so we did too."


Leadership is a lot more than goals...and the Kings will find out from April outward during the playoffs why he's won championships at every level he's played at.
You overreacted to my post. I said that was "slightly misleading" don't overlook the slightly. I am not denying Richards was key part of all these teams I even say that in my post. What I am saying is don't overrate it. These were teams that were stacked in talent.

I also feel you are putting way to much emphasis on leadership. Since when did leadership count for more then goals? Don't get me wrong leadership is important but I have never seen anyone win a game by scoring more leadership.
Example: Stanley Cup Finals, Mike Richards was the worst skater on the ice for the Flyers. He may have had leadership but unfortunately Kane's goals seemed to be worth more.

Like mentioned look at those teams again. The Rangers the Phantoms the team Canada's.

- Did Team Canada need Richards? No. Team Canada is always outrageously jacked. Them winning gold is nothing amazing.

- Did the Phantoms need Richards? Are you kidding me? He played 14 games that entire season and playoffs. Who was on this team besides Richards? Jeff Carter, Patrick Sharp, RJ Umberger, Joni Pitkanen, Dennis Seidenberg, Jon Sim, Antero Niittymaki (MVP), John Slaney (AHL Legend and Vet). This is an AHL team. This team was so jacked it was unreal. They didn't need Richards, they swept the Finals easily and no one came close to beating them.

- The Rangers, Richards was not the captain when they won the Memorial Cup. Derek Roy was.

The Flyers playoff run.

Correction 1: The NJ Devils were not the #1 team and the Flyers were not the #8 team. The Devils were the #2 team and the Flyers were the #7 team.

Correction 2: The NJ Devils were actually not favored in this. This was the 1 match up where the lower seed was expected to upset the higher seed. Why? The Flyers were 5-1 against the Devils that season.

Correction 3: This was not a close series. Just like the season series the Flyers won this series 5-1 and easily dominated the series. Richards played great but they would have won without him. It was that lopsided.

The Bruins Series

Mike Richards was a key part in beating the Bruins but what did you forget to mention?

Correction 4: The return of Simon Gagne. With Gagne in the line up the Flyers were 4-0 against the Bruins and Gagne added 4 goals.

Correction 5: Tim Thomas lost his job to Tuukka Rask. Rask melted under the pressure and repeatedly in this series.

The Habs Series

Lopsided series the Habs had no chance. Richards had 1 big game.

Overlooks

Correction 6: Danny Briere broke the Flyers franchise record in scoring with 30 points. He was always a great playoff player. Richards leadership did not make him better.

Correction 7: Claude Giroux same as Briere. Always a strong playoff performer. Even back when he was in juniors (also shattered franchise playoff records). Did not need Richards to dominant and got more credit because he scored more goals and bigger ones.

Correction 8: Just like Briere and Giroux... look at Pronger's history in the playoffs... Did he need Richards leadership?

Correction 9: Find any article from that years playoff run late in the series. If the Flyers won the cup the players being mentioned for the Conn Smythe on the Flyers on almost every article went Pronger, Giroux, Briere, Richards, Leino. Some even put Leino ahead of Mike because of how terrible he was in the Cup Finals. Hence why I listed those guys ahead of him. They showed up for the full run.

Point: Richards was a strong player and valuable piece. He was not the biggest. Do not overrate leadership. Richards is not some magical good luck charm that makes everyone else so much better.

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02-16-2012, 10:38 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
i fyou look at the video of all of simmonds pp goals there all just tap ins from the front of the net.
Right? The two goals he got tonight against Buffalo were literally copies of each other.

Giroux/Hartnell do the work while Simmonds plants his ass and taps in a rebound. It's not like he is going Datsyuk and skating through a whole team.


Also tonight he had 2 goals and was a -1 in a 7 goal game. -1. 7 goals for his team.

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02-16-2012, 10:40 PM
  #237
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I'm pretty confident you're wrong. They wouldn't have the seasons they are if they had a coach and personnel that was about defence first. Philly is slowly dropping in the standings after being top 3 all season to 4th right now, tied with Pitts who just got Staal back and 1 point up on NJ. It's all because the coach can't/won't make the players defensively responsible.
We at Flyer Nation know how you feel about our head coach.

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02-16-2012, 10:42 PM
  #238
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You overreacted to my post. I said that was "slightly misleading" don't overlook the slightly. I am not denying Richards was key part of all these teams I even say that in my post. What I am saying is don't overrate it. These were teams that were stacked in talent.

I also feel you are putting way to much emphasis on leadership. Since when did leadership count for more then goals? Don't get me wrong leadership is important but I have never seen anyone win a game by scoring more leadership.
Example: Stanley Cup Finals, Mike Richards was the worst skater on the ice for the Flyers. He may have had leadership but unfortunately Kane's goals seemed to be worth more.

Like mentioned look at those teams again. The Rangers the Phantoms the team Canada's.

- Did Team Canada need Richards? No. Team Canada is always outrageously jacked. Them winning gold is nothing amazing.

- Did the Phantoms need Richards? Are you kidding me? He played 14 games that entire season and playoffs. Who was on this team besides Richards? Jeff Carter, Patrick Sharp, RJ Umberger, Joni Pitkanen, Dennis Seidenberg, Jon Sim, Antero Niittymaki (MVP), John Slaney (AHL Legend and Vet). This is an AHL team. This team was so jacked it was unreal. They didn't need Richards, they swept the Finals easily and no one came close to beating them.

- The Rangers, Richards was not the captain when they won the Memorial Cup. Derek Roy was.

The Flyers playoff run.

Correction 1: The NJ Devils were not the #1 team and the Flyers were not the #8 team. The Devils were the #2 team and the Flyers were the #7 team.

Correction 2: The NJ Devils were actually not favored in this. This was the 1 match up where the lower seed was expected to upset the higher seed. Why? The Flyers were 5-1 against the Devils that season.

Correction 3: This was not a close series. Just like the season series the Flyers won this series 5-1 and easily dominated the series. Richards played great but they would have won without him. It was that lopsided.

The Bruins Series

Mike Richards was a key part in beating the Bruins but what did you forget to mention?

Correction 4: The return of Simon Gagne. With Gagne in the line up the Flyers were 4-0 against the Bruins and Gagne added 4 goals.

Correction 5: Tim Thomas lost his job to Tuukka Rask. Rask melted under the pressure and repeatedly in this series.

The Habs Series

Lopsided series the Habs had no chance. Richards had 1 big game.

Overlooks

Correction 6: Danny Briere broke the Flyers franchise record in scoring with 30 points. He was always a great playoff player. Richards leadership did not make him better.

Correction 7: Claude Giroux same as Briere. Always a strong playoff performer. Even back when he was in juniors (also shattered franchise playoff records). Did not need Richards to dominant and got more credit because he scored more goals and bigger ones.

Correction 8: Just like Briere and Giroux... look at Pronger's history in the playoffs... Did he need Richards leadership?

Correction 9: Find any article from that years playoff run late in the series. If the Flyers won the cup the players being mentioned for the Conn Smythe on the Flyers on almost every article went Pronger, Giroux, Briere, Richards, Leino. Some even put Leino ahead of Mike because of how terrible he was in the Cup Finals. Hence why I listed those guys ahead of him. They showed up for the full run.

Point: Richards was a strong player and valuable piece. He was not the biggest. Do not overrate leadership. Richards is not some magical good luck charm that makes everyone else so much better.
Dam........Well done!

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02-17-2012, 12:16 AM
  #239
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Why didn't Simmonds play on the power play in LA? I am pretty sure Laviolette had him on the first unit even during the preseason.

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02-17-2012, 12:18 AM
  #240
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Dam........Well done!
Agreed. Richards was a key part to that team, don't get me wrong. But they leaned on Briere, Giroux, Pronger, and Timonen more than him. I wouldn't go as far as saying Richards is a 40 pt guy, but I don't see him being a PPG guy again. His numbers have declined almost ever year since 07-08.

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02-17-2012, 12:20 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
Why didn't Simmonds play on the power play in LA? I am pretty sure Laviolette had him on the first unit even during the preseason.
Kings used Smyth and Handzus in that role.

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02-17-2012, 12:47 AM
  #242
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It is so sad that Richards is like teflon on this board. He has added NOTHING to this team and almost no one is criticizing him. They'd rather talk about how great he was in 2010.

Just depressing that mediocrity is so easily accepted.

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02-17-2012, 12:49 AM
  #243
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It is so sad that Richards is like teflon on this board. He has added NOTHING to this team and almost no one is criticizing him. They'd rather talk about how great he was in 2010.

Just depressing that mediocrity is so easily accepted.
He has added NOTHING to this team? Oh please. I think you just enjoy trolling the majority of the fanbase because you are one of the only people who feels that way. Your 'arguments' are full of holes, selective, and hypocritical. Move on already or start cheering for the Flyers.

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02-17-2012, 12:49 AM
  #244
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To answer the original question, the answer is that the entire Kings are playing injured, and by injured I mean that they are mentally impaired and impotent offensively.

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02-17-2012, 12:59 AM
  #245
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He has added NOTHING to this team? Oh please. I think you just enjoy trolling the majority of the fanbase because you are one of the only people who feels that way. Your 'arguments' are full of holes, selective, and hypocritical. Move on already or start cheering for the Flyers.
Last 22 games played: 1 goal and 5 assists.

Those are Trevor Lewis type numbers and you find that acceptable????

In a playoff drive?????

Wow. At this point the Flyers are a WAY more interesting team to root for.

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02-17-2012, 01:02 AM
  #246
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Last 22 games played: 1 goal and 5 assists.

Those are Trevor Lewis type numbers and you find that acceptable????

In a playoff drive?????

Wow. At this point the Flyers are a WAY more interesting team to root for.
In case you haven't noticed, the entire team is struggling. But of course you have to single Richards out, despite his having moved across the country to learn a new system and new teammates, being concussed, having Stoll and Penner as wings, and STILL being 4th on the team in points and 2nd in goals.

Have fun rooting for the Flyers.

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02-17-2012, 01:05 AM
  #247
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In case you haven't noticed, the entire team is struggling. But of course you have to single Richards out, despite his having moved across the country to learn a new system and new teammates, being concussed, having Stoll and Penner as wings, and STILL being 4th on the team in points and 2nd in goals.

Have fun rooting for the Flyers.
Another one who holds him to zero accountability.

If he is hurt then he shouldn't be playing.
If he doesn't like his linemates then he shouldn't be playing.
If he likes LA women and bars too much then he shouldn't be playing.

He was brought here to provide leadership and scoring. He does neither.

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02-17-2012, 01:09 AM
  #248
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Oh good, here comes the conjecture about LA bars

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02-17-2012, 01:11 AM
  #249
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Richards and Kopitar have both disappointed me this season.

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02-17-2012, 01:12 AM
  #250
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Oh good, here comes the conjecture about LA bars
yeah, like THAT is a big secret!

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