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Old
02-07-2012, 06:38 PM
  #126
Duc620
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You've got two kids going to a mature, completely developed, team in the Flyers. A team with a very very long history and culture. That's an easier environment in which to succeed. That's why Flyer's (or Wings, or Boston) players don't look so phenomenal when traded or when their UFA's go away for a big payday. They're no longer surrounded by the entire TEAM.

Richards got sent to the Kings. We are in development. Not an easy place. Not easy to play in. Not easy to lead in. Not easy to succeed in. It's tough building a winning culture. Other teams don't want you to succeed.

For all of you counting, there's another reason UFA's don't go to developing teams or to teams that spec out to fewer than "100 points" to quote Hossa.

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02-07-2012, 07:01 PM
  #127
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This will not sit well with the purple colored glasses crowd...
my bad, I really wasn't trying to be negative to kings fans. I was really attempting to come up with something to explain richards play the last few seasons. My point about rehashing the trade was how I was wrong thinking that the flyers made a huge mistake.

there obviously was a reason that the flyers made the deal. So i guess the real question is when was the last time a team traded away their captain in the prime of his career when he is already signed long term?

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02-07-2012, 11:12 PM
  #128
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Agree completely. By the time Richards is 28 or 29, his remaining contract will be a huge anchor tied to the neck of the next Kings GM. Meanwhile, Schenn and Simmonds will be in their prime and playing lights out in Philly. Thanks Deano.
tom,
I beg to differ. How much was a block of cheese, bottle of milk and a loaf of bread 5 years ago? In 2007 the salary cap 50.3 Million right? Now the cap is set to 64.3 Million. So in 5 years the cap has increased EVERY year with a total of 14 million. You do the math. Richards contract is a bargain and will get even better

Ive just gone and bought 10 years worth of milk. Look who's laughing now!

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02-08-2012, 08:05 AM
  #129
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Flyers fan here. I've tried to watch as many Kings games as possible and have noticed Richards isn't as much of a factor. For everyone discussing the linemates, over the past few years it has been a mix of Gagne, Nodl, Carcillo, Versteeg, and Zherdev. He did play with Carcillo a good amount in 09-10 with Gagne on the other side. I don't pay as much attention to Stoll and Penner but Richards should still be producing better than he is based off of past linemates.

One thing that always worried me about Richards was how physical he played the game for his size. I always though that towards the end of his contract(Years-7-12) that he would start to decline because the way he plays would take a toll on his body. As its been stated, he's not in the best shape and plays a much bigger game than most would think. I haven't seen that many big hits out of this year and that was one of his greatest strengths in Philly. I wouldn't say he is on the decline yet though, if you give him some scoring wingers, he can still put up 65-75 points. The year he put up 80 on the Flyers they had like 7 20 goal scorers and he was still relatively unknown around the league as an offensive threat. He will be an impact player though in the playoffs and it doesn't matter who is linemates are. He rarely had a bad playoff series when playing for the Flyers and they faced some tough competition.

I also think it would be huge if you guys got Carter. While I am not his biggest fan, the guy is criminally underrated on these boards. I have no doubt he can reach 40 goals again if he stays healthy and he is the kind of player that does not need spectacular linemates. A trade for him would re-energize himself and Richards and they would be the players they were in Philly. While his value is low right now, you guys should take a run at him.

As far as Schenn and Simmonds. I am a fan of the trade right now and think it will continue to get better. Richards is still the best player out of the three but Schenn has showed signs of becoming a top 2 center. He plays a very physical game, albeit it is more suited for him than Richards, and has shown he has an offensive game while not playing with top line guys. Throw in the fact that he will be getting favorable matchups being behind Giroux and also having Couturier, he is going to flourish over the next decade.

Simmonds is the biggest surprise to me. I was expecting to get a rough and tumble guy who can throw his weight around and can chip in 15-20 goals. He has been a force in front of the net and will only continue to get better there as he gets stronger and gain experience. I disagree with the posters who are saying he is just putting in tap ins from Giroux. Sure that is helping, but he is doing so much more. He rarely loses a battle along the boards and is probably our best cycle player. He's shown chemistry with mostly every center on the team and will be able to move up and down the lineup. I don't think it's out of the question to see him putting up 30 goals in the next few seasons. He will be playing along side Giroux, Schenn, or Couturier.

The trade was a win-win. You guys needed to add an impact player and you did. He will come along and be fine, it is just his longevity that worries me. The Flyers completely rebuilt their team and Schenn and Simmonds made a lot more sense than Richards with the direction they were going in. I think the Flyers will look like big winners in this deal 3-5 years from now though. Saying that, you guys still have the potential to be a cup winning team and getting Carter would help those chances.

Last thing, to all the posters ripping on the Flyers defensive game. It has been pretty brutal and I won't argue that. But they haven't had their captain and most important player all season. Pronger would dramatically change everyone's out look on the defense and that will change when they get his replacement. Name one team in the league whose defense wouldn't struggle when you take their number 1 dman out of the equation. Not to mention it's Chris Pronger, not your typical number 1 dman.

Good luck!

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02-08-2012, 12:36 PM
  #130
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This post depresses me.

Simmonds and Schenn have a combined 23 goals, 17 assists and 8 fights. Richards has 14 goals, 13 assists and 2 fights.

They make a lot less and are younger and bigger.

Still hate this trade.

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02-08-2012, 12:58 PM
  #131
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How many ES pts does Simmonds have? Easy to produce on a PP with Giroux, Jagr, and Timonen

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02-08-2012, 01:08 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
How many ES pts does Simmonds have? Easy to produce on a PP with Giroux, Jagr, and Timonen
Jagr isn't on that PP unit. No one else on the Flyers can play in front of the net as effective as Simmonds anyway so he is needed on that unit. And why the hell would anyone care if it was easy? He still is producing. Most of his goals are off rebounds and just working hard.

10 of his 17 goals are even strength.

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02-08-2012, 02:14 PM
  #133
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Ill admit that it discourages me to see MR struggling the way he is, and then looking at philly and seeing schenn and simmonds, but whats done is done.

We can ***** and moan about this all we want, but its all in vane. We might as well just move on. Accept the fact that Richards is a King, and Schenn and Simmonds are with philly. That the Kings cant score and that Philly cant stop anyone. Arguing as to who got the best of the trade isnt going to change anything, its just a bunch of wasted anger and frustration.

I can only hope that one day we will look back at this trade and be able to say without a doubt that it helped us win a cup.

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02-08-2012, 02:49 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
This post depresses me.

Simmonds and Schenn have a combined 23 goals, 17 assists and 8 fights. Richards has 14 goals, 13 assists and 2 fights.

They make a lot less and are younger and bigger.

Still hate this trade.

And if this trade never went down im sure Richards would have 23 goals while Simmonds and Schenn might combine for 14 goals. As it's been pointed out numerous times, different teams different systems.

There was a chart on here a bit ago that listed faceoffs taken in the offensive zone vs other areas on the ice. Kopitar was at the top being on the ice in the defensive zone the most where as the Sedins are at the bottom. I highly doubt the sedin's would be at the top of the league in scoring if playing on the Kings under the same system.....

I'm sickened by the offensive performance of this team as well but surely this trade alone is not the cause of it. If the Kings kept Zues and Smyth during this I'm pretty sure the offense would be much better.

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02-08-2012, 02:54 PM
  #135
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The decline in Richards play is directly related to the hit by Bergenheim.
But hey were still sitting there in a playoff spot and maybe a tweak here and there and we get hot post season. Hey my SF Giants did it a couple years ago why the the Kings.

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02-08-2012, 02:58 PM
  #136
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In a couple of seasons, this thread will be a source of great humor. We are going to have Richards for a very long time and one day we will eventually have a competent offense. Richards will be fine and his capabilities as a player are unquestionable. He's one of the most proven NHL players we have ever acquired.

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02-08-2012, 03:03 PM
  #137
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Yeah, bit too early to judge who the winner of the trade is. Actually a trade can work out to be beneficial for both teams (it's true).

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02-08-2012, 03:08 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
This post depresses me.

Simmonds and Schenn have a combined 23 goals, 17 assists and 8 fights. Richards has 14 goals, 13 assists and 2 fights.

They make a lot less and are younger and bigger.

Still hate this trade.
I agree with you. It depresses me also. I would like to understand some aspects of the players. Why wasnt Simmonds playing with any jump for us last season? What factors had contributed to that? Coaches? Staff? Injury? Extracuricular activities? Hockey city? What at Philidelphia makes players like Simmonds and Schenn who lets be real(ality) here, had some makings of a nhl bust with his few games with the Kings. Schenn definatley was not a sure thing. This doubt would have aided Lombardi in trading Schenn with his trade value as a prospect at an all time high after the wj.

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02-08-2012, 03:23 PM
  #139
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It's easier to score in the East than it is in the West. The competition in the West is significantly higher than it is in the East. There is less defensive responsibility for Simmonds, who was constantly matched up against the opposition's top lines when he was a King. Simmonds never got to see any ice time on special teams, which he is getting in Philly.

The Kings also felt that Clifford was going to be a better player than Simmonds, which he was last season. In order to get another top line center, one of Simmonds or Clifford were going to go. The Kings were not going to end up landing a player like Mike Richards for scraps like Brad Richardson.

It's a trade that made a ton of sense. Judging it now as if Simmonds will continue to put up these kind of numbers and that Mike Richards will further regress is nonsensical. Philly is a vastly different team than LA. They score a lot, but they also surrender a lot and believe me, they're not going to go far with that defense and goaltending.

The Kings won't advance far with their lack of scoring, but improving the team by .5 goals would make the Kings a deadly team. Bringing in another winger or two who are capable of producing 20-25 goals would give the Kings the balanced scoring that they need. And it isn't only Mike Richards who isn't producing on the Kings, so to think that he is going to be a 40-50 point player for the duration of his contract is rather silly.

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02-08-2012, 03:33 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
In a couple of seasons, this thread will be a source of great humor. We are going to have Richards for a very long time and one day we will eventually have a competent offense. Richards will be fine and his capabilities as a player are unquestionable. He's one of the most proven NHL players we have ever acquired.
Exactly. The way people talk around here, they would only be satisfied if Richards was lighting it up all season and Simmer and Schenn were failing miserably. News flash: "You have to give to get". No question Schenn and Simmer are good players, and I'm not surprised to see them having some success in Philly, especially with their more freewheeling offensive system.

So at what point would you Richards whiners be happy? If Simmonds had 5 goals and Schenn was still struggling to crack the big club? Let me give you a hint, not every trade is going to end up one-sided to the point where you can parade around boasting that your team completely won a trade. This was a hockey trade that works for BOTH teams.

Like Telos said, Richards is one of the most battle-tested, proven NHL players we've ever had. He's been one W away from being the first person on his team to lift the Stanley Cup over his head. He's been a winner at every level of hockey he's played at. The fair-weather fandom on here is sickening to read sometimes. The guy struggles coming back from a concussion after being a complete gamer for us in the beginning of the year, and the whiner threads start popping up questioning his worth. I didn't see anyone complaining about him when he had 11 goals in 13 games on top of his stellar defensive play earlier in the year.

How about this, how about I shoulder one of you in the head hard enough to concuss you, then when you go back to work I sit at your desk with you and taunt you for every mistake you make. Mike Richards is a heart and soul player that will do anything to win, especially in the postseason. NHL GMs make that trade for him 100 times out of 100 regardless of what the fairweather/impatient/instant gratification crowd on HF boards thinks.

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02-08-2012, 09:01 PM
  #141
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He's playing with Penner, that's an injury!

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02-08-2012, 09:06 PM
  #142
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He's playing with Penner, that's an injury!
Stoll is worse that Penner.

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02-08-2012, 09:26 PM
  #143
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How about this, how about I shoulder one of you in the head hard enough to concuss you, then when you go back to work I sit at your desk with you and taunt you for every mistake you make. Mike Richards is a heart and soul player that will do anything to win, especially in the postseason. NHL GMs make that trade for him 100 times out of 100 regardless of what the fairweather/impatient/instant gratification crowd on HF boards thinks.
I don't know if you have noticed, but this sport is pretty rough. I don't know if you have noticed but Kopitar has had more terrifying things going around and with his head than Richards. Same with Greene. And Mitchell. I am not saying it's not possible that he is feeling some symptoms of the concussion. I just don't think it's very probable, not in today's NHL. He says he feels great. Doctors wouldn't have cleared him if he was still having problems in my opinion. It is MUCH more PROBABLE that his play is NOT consequence of that injury and until I see different evidence, I will continue to believe that it's a confidence issue and I expect it to go away any time now. Couple of lucky bounces and he is back.

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02-08-2012, 09:51 PM
  #144
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I don't know if you have noticed, but this sport is pretty rough. I don't know if you have noticed but Kopitar has had more terrifying things going around and with his head than Richards. Same with Greene. And Mitchell. I am not saying it's not possible that he is feeling some symptoms of the concussion. I just don't think it's very probable, not in today's NHL. He says he feels great. Doctors wouldn't have cleared him if he was still having problems in my opinion. It is MUCH more PROBABLE that his play is NOT consequence of that injury and until I see different evidence, I will continue to believe that it's a confidence issue and I expect it to go away any time now. Couple of lucky bounces and he is back.
Well, it could be a mental consequence, such as trying to shy away from contact for fear of re-aggravation (rather than headaches/physical ailments)

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02-09-2012, 08:15 PM
  #145
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Flyers can't stop anyone from scoring either which is a far greater concern. Like I said, Simmonds would have about 15 pts. for LA while Schenn would be playing for the Monarchs...
And the Flyers thank you! Simmer and the kid have been playing very well. One thing about Mike is that he will play hurt and that may effect his game. Put him with some hard working wingers and watch out! Like I said before. I really think this trade will benefit both teams. I know from our end we cannot be any more excited. Schenn has really turned it on the last month abd Simmer has been steady all year. How is Simon doing? Anyway do not worry about Mike. The guy is a true hockey player!

Good Luck and I hope to see you in the playoffs.

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02-09-2012, 09:04 PM
  #146
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And the Flyers thank you! Simmer and the kid have been playing very well. One thing about Mike is that he will play hurt and that may effect his game. Put him with some hard working wingers and watch out! Like I said before. I really think this trade will benefit both teams. I know from our end we cannot be any more excited. Schenn has really turned it on the last month abd Simmer has been steady all year. How is Simon doing? Anyway do not worry about Mike. The guy is a true hockey player!

Good Luck and I hope to see you in the playoffs.
Simon is injured. Might be out for the whole season.

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02-09-2012, 09:06 PM
  #147
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Well, it could be a mental consequence, such as trying to shy away from contact for fear of re-aggravation (rather than headaches/physical ailments)
Ok that is something I can agree with. But even that will get fixed soon so I am optimistic. This is not good time to evaluate the trade. At the end of next season everything will be much clearer.

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02-09-2012, 09:45 PM
  #148
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Simon is injured. Might be out for the whole season.
That sucks. I hope he recovers because he was a clutch player for us. A very smart player.

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02-09-2012, 09:50 PM
  #149
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Mike has been awful for about a month.

Mike!!!! pick it up buddy.

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02-09-2012, 09:50 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
Flyers fan here. I've tried to watch as many Kings games as possible and have noticed Richards isn't as much of a factor. For everyone discussing the linemates, over the past few years it has been a mix of Gagne, Nodl, Carcillo, Versteeg, and Zherdev. He did play with Carcillo a good amount in 09-10 with Gagne on the other side. I don't pay as much attention to Stoll and Penner but Richards should still be producing better than he is based off of past linemates.

One thing that always worried me about Richards was how physical he played the game for his size. I always though that towards the end of his contract(Years-7-12) that he would start to decline because the way he plays would take a toll on his body. As its been stated, he's not in the best shape and plays a much bigger game than most would think. I haven't seen that many big hits out of this year and that was one of his greatest strengths in Philly. I wouldn't say he is on the decline yet though, if you give him some scoring wingers, he can still put up 65-75 points. The year he put up 80 on the Flyers they had like 7 20 goal scorers and he was still relatively unknown around the league as an offensive threat. He will be an impact player though in the playoffs and it doesn't matter who is linemates are. He rarely had a bad playoff series when playing for the Flyers and they faced some tough competition.

I also think it would be huge if you guys got Carter. While I am not his biggest fan, the guy is criminally underrated on these boards. I have no doubt he can reach 40 goals again if he stays healthy and he is the kind of player that does not need spectacular linemates. A trade for him would re-energize himself and Richards and they would be the players they were in Philly. While his value is low right now, you guys should take a run at him.

As far as Schenn and Simmonds. I am a fan of the trade right now and think it will continue to get better. Richards is still the best player out of the three but Schenn has showed signs of becoming a top 2 center. He plays a very physical game, albeit it is more suited for him than Richards, and has shown he has an offensive game while not playing with top line guys. Throw in the fact that he will be getting favorable matchups being behind Giroux and also having Couturier, he is going to flourish over the next decade.

Simmonds is the biggest surprise to me. I was expecting to get a rough and tumble guy who can throw his weight around and can chip in 15-20 goals. He has been a force in front of the net and will only continue to get better there as he gets stronger and gain experience. I disagree with the posters who are saying he is just putting in tap ins from Giroux. Sure that is helping, but he is doing so much more. He rarely loses a battle along the boards and is probably our best cycle player. He's shown chemistry with mostly every center on the team and will be able to move up and down the lineup. I don't think it's out of the question to see him putting up 30 goals in the next few seasons. He will be playing along side Giroux, Schenn, or Couturier.

The trade was a win-win. You guys needed to add an impact player and you did. He will come along and be fine, it is just his longevity that worries me. The Flyers completely rebuilt their team and Schenn and Simmonds made a lot more sense than Richards with the direction they were going in. I think the Flyers will look like big winners in this deal 3-5 years from now though. Saying that, you guys still have the potential to be a cup winning team and getting Carter would help those chances.

Last thing, to all the posters ripping on the Flyers defensive game. It has been pretty brutal and I won't argue that. But they haven't had their captain and most important player all season. Pronger would dramatically change everyone's out look on the defense and that will change when they get his replacement. Name one team in the league whose defense wouldn't struggle when you take their number 1 dman out of the equation. Not to mention it's Chris Pronger, not your typical number 1 dman.

Good luck!
Well said. I always liked Jeff. He would be a perfect fit here in LA. Mike and Jeff belong on the same team. He would get between 35 and 40 goals a season for you hands down.

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