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In Praise Of Wilson

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Old
02-05-2012, 11:52 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
So the people who are defendinding Wilson are saying coaching has no bearing on how a team plays and it's just about talent ?
It takes both, Grabovski was a talent with almost no direction and now he is looking at being paid a lot of money and Wilson can be attributed.

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02-05-2012, 11:52 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
You bring the some modicum of intellect, I'll bring some game. Deal.
With my right forebrain tied behind my back brother

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02-05-2012, 11:52 AM
  #128
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John Mitchell is a fine example of a player who was given every chance to succed in Toronto. Good for him that it is finally working out.

I don't think that the worst Leaf hater would tell you that that group of centreman is good but yet we see it here.
I'm saying as a group it was not as bad as many perpetrate it was, Domenic Moore can play on my team anyday, and really Nik Andropov could as well as long as he is not placed as the #1C position, always liked his defensive game which was very underrated. Grabo well, it seems most think of him higher than I do, but I do recognize he has a unique skill set.

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02-05-2012, 11:53 AM
  #129
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Save percentages weren't as high in general back then professor. Come on. Patrick Roy has a .910 save percentage. Ed Belfour had a lower save percentage average in those years.
NHL.com only goes back as 97/98, so I'm using that season...but Felix's SV% was 31st among all goalies that played that season, and just by eyeballing it around 17th or so for starters.

Again, not spectacular, but not awful. I would assume (although that might be a dangerous thing to do) that the wicked teams from 93/94 had the same kind of goaltending compared to the rest of the league as Felix's stats were very similar.

Again, not Toskalol bad, but not world beating either.

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02-05-2012, 11:54 AM
  #130
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If you have an IQ of 48 perhaps yes.

Oh look , you made a funny how nice .

Maybe should explain if you believe coaching actually makes a difference .

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02-05-2012, 11:56 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I'm saying as a group it was not as bad as many perpetrate it was, Domenic Moore can play on my team anyday, and really Nik Andropov could as well as long as he is not placed as the #1C position, always liked his defensive game which was very underrated. Grabo well, it seems most think of him higher than I do, but I do recognize he has a unique skill set.
wait, isnt Moore a 3rd line center? and didnt you claim Antro being a #1 center on Winnipeg is why he is good?

that team at the time was 4 3rd line centers and some journemyman wingers.

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02-05-2012, 11:56 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
Just because talent is the most important element in success doesn't mean other elements aren't important.

Expand your mind.
Who said it wasn't important . I'm saying a good coach gets more out of a team than a bad or avg coach .

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02-05-2012, 11:56 AM
  #133
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I claimed he never had playoff success with them. thanks for posting 1 season where he had a decent record and trying to make a point.

also I discussed why that specific team you posted was good that year. so this post is pretty much ignoring the facts.
You mean you edited your post as I responded. That's probably a better way to put it, since that final line on goaltending wasn't in there before I posted.

It's nice to say it was all goaltending and that he had a solid roster, but that's a stretch. He had a young Gaborik, little to no secondary scoring and got the team to buy in to a sound defensive system. That Wild team overachieved a significant amount. If Wilson is able to do that this year I think we'll all be pleased.

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02-05-2012, 11:57 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Who said it wasn't important . I'm saying a good coach gets more out of a team than a bad or avg coach .
what a revelation. write a book about your findings, sir. I will buy it.

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02-05-2012, 11:58 AM
  #135
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NHL.com only goes back as 97/98, so I'm using that season...but Felix's SV% was 31st among all goalies that played that season, and just by eyeballing it around 17th or so for starters.

Again, not spectacular, but not awful. I would assume (although that might be a dangerous thing to do) that the wicked teams from 93/94 had the same kind of goaltending compared to the rest of the league as Felix's stats were very similar.

Again, not Toskalol bad, but not world beating either.
Point is we had good goaltending, nobody disputes Potvin was a first rate goalie that played better, the bigger the game. Wilson has never had that until Reimer came up last year, go look at our record since. Exactly.

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02-05-2012, 11:58 AM
  #136
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I'll admit that while I haven't been Wilson's harshest critic, I have jumped on the "fire Wilson" bandwagon after a couple of disappointing losses, but I've been beyond impressed with some of the things he's done this year.

He always seems to make decisions that coincide with what LeafsNation wants this year. (D-pairings, line combos, starting goalies...)
He has kept the games exciting.
He has shown that the can calm situations that are getting tense... (Crabb-Gunn fight, losing streak)
He has let a lot of the players play their games. (When Franson complained early in the season he threw him in and let him play... he hasn't publicly criticized anyones play this year... he always rewards those who are playing well)
The players seem to love him.
Look at where we are in the standings.
Look at the improvements of so many players on the roster; he's turned Phaneuf around, elevated Kessels, Lupuls, Grabovskis, Bozaks, Kulemins, Grabos, Fransons, Gunnarssons, MacArthurs, etc. games each season that he's coached.
He has shown a comical side to him that most didn't even know about. (twitter, the media, etc.)

I'm not in love with him yet, but he has certainly become a much more likeable coach.

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02-05-2012, 11:59 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
You mean you edited your post as I responded. That's probably a better way to put it, since that final line on goaltending wasn't in there before I posted.
yet you quoted it ?

also I added it not even 1 minute after. hold on to your pants next time and respond before you get so defensive about Lemaire and his amazing Wild.

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02-05-2012, 12:00 PM
  #138
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Still when you see how good Moore has been since he left Toronto, Andropov is Winnipeg's/Atlanta's #1C, Stajan who was playing well that season, and Grabo who yes was a rookie but he was 25 at the time, which is older than Kessel is presently. It was not a bad Center core. Just look at John Mitchell in NY, Leafs couldn't wait to get rid of him, but Torts has got him in the lineup and they are in 1st. He wouldn't have made that Center core if he was on that team, working with what you have is a strength of coaching.
Can you enlighten me a little? Who were the goalies, and where are they now?

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02-05-2012, 12:00 PM
  #139
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wait, isnt Moore a 3rd line center? and didnt you claim Antro being a #1 center on Winnipeg is why he is good?

that team at the time was 4 3rd line centers and some journemyman wingers.
I don't get the point, but you did say then, how about now? The 3 guys I mentioned are not as bad now as it looked then correct? Stajan is the only player that has regressed.

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02-05-2012, 12:01 PM
  #140
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wait, isnt Moore a 3rd line center? and didnt you claim Antro being a #1 center on Winnipeg is why he is good?

that team at the time was 4 3rd line centers and some journemyman wingers.
Antro was always better than a 3rd line center, and the fact that he CAN play on the 1st line does not mean that he SHOULD be. He's a good offensive player, not a great one. Once again, I doubt anybody thinks that the group of centers from that year were world beaters, but certainly weren't awful.

Moore is a very good 3rd liner. No problem with that.

Stajan was playing reasonably well at the time he was traded, signed a big contract too so ppl obviously thought reasonably highly of him. Passable top 6 center at the time. Probably should've been 2nd line.

Nothing I'd be excited about, but it wasn't OMG TEH WORST GROUP EVORZ!

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02-05-2012, 12:01 PM
  #141
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I read that wrong, thought it said in parise of wilson and was excited

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02-05-2012, 12:02 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
It takes both, Grabovski was a talent with almost no direction and now he is looking at being paid a lot of money and Wilson can be attributed.
If your going to to give credit to Wilson for the players that develop , do you also blame him for the ones that don't .

It not easy to evaluate a coach's performance . You have to go beyond simply looking at the teams record or any individual stats .

I believe Wilson is a decent coach , nothing more .

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02-05-2012, 12:02 PM
  #143
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Who said it wasn't important . I'm saying a good coach gets more out of a team than a bad or avg coach .
Did I miss the part where you were skewing the fact that our coaching has been good by saying that others cannot comment on the fact that the coaching is good because they MAY have mentioned that in the past, the team struggled due to lack of talent?

No. I didn't miss that part.

We're just playing 'shift the argument.' But that's no fun.

Wilson's puck pressure style is CONTRIBUTING to the Leafs becoming a very difficult team to play against. Thank the lucky stars we didn't go to a coach who wanted to play an easy system like the 1-4 trap (Tampa) because it's boring, stifling, and no fun.

This is better.

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02-05-2012, 12:02 PM
  #144
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Can you enlighten me a little? Who were the goalies, and where are they now?
One is retired, the other 3 are not playing in the NHL today.


Last edited by The Mentalist: 02-05-2012 at 12:08 PM.
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02-05-2012, 12:03 PM
  #145
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I don't get the point, but you did sat then, how about now? The 3 guys I mentioned are not as bad now as it looked then correct? Stajan is the only player that has regressed.
I liked our centers that year and thought the same thing of Moore and Antro tbh . Just in reality they are not good enough to make a bad team play above their heads. It was not much to work with and Stajan has proven to be bad. Grabo was not the same Grabo. Antro was playing a role he shouldnt have been. etc.

a few capable centers is not enough to cover up atrocious goaltending and an inept d core.

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02-05-2012, 12:05 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I don't get the point, but you did say then, how about now? The 3 guys I mentioned are not as bad now as it looked then correct? Stajan is the only player that has regressed.
Moore probably played his best hockey HERE and only left because we wouldn't give him money, not the coach. I don't miss Antropov at all, big minutes on another subpar, go nowhere team, see ya. And yes, Stajan has been an utter bust.

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02-05-2012, 12:05 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Sergei Berezin View Post
I'll admit that while I haven't been Wilson's harshest critic, I have jumped on the "fire Wilson" bandwagon after a couple of disappointing losses, but I've been beyond impressed with some of the things he's done this year.

He always seems to make decisions that coincide with what LeafsNation wants this year. (D-pairings, line combos, starting goalies...)
He has kept the games exciting.
He has shown that the can calm situations that are getting tense... (Crabb-Gunn fight, losing streak)
He has let a lot of the players play their games. (When Franson complained early in the season he threw him in and let him play... he hasn't publicly criticized anyones play this year... he always rewards those who are playing well)
The players seem to love him.
Look at where we are in the standings.
Look at the improvements of so many players on the roster; he's turned Phaneuf around, elevated Kessels, Lupuls, Grabovskis, Bozaks, Kulemins, Grabos, Fransons, Gunnarssons, MacArthurs, etc. games each season that he's coached.
He has shown a comical side to him that most didn't even know about. (twitter, the media, etc.)

I'm not in love with him yet, but he has certainly become a much more likeable coach.
You would think this was the praise Wilson thread...

Wait.

What?

I've never been a fan of his, but never hated him the way some posters do. I gotta give him credit for the team successes this year. But in a weird way, I'm in a position of somehow defending him to his detractors. I don't like him that much, but do think he deserves the credit. And i know better than all this, his haters will hate him no matter what. I think I can see where I went wrong hehehe

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02-05-2012, 12:06 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
Antro was always better than a 3rd line center, and the fact that he CAN play on the 1st line does not mean that he SHOULD be. He's a good offensive player, not a great one. Once again, I doubt anybody thinks that the group of centers from that year were world beaters, but certainly weren't awful.

Moore is a very good 3rd liner. No problem with that.

Stajan was playing reasonably well at the time he was traded, signed a big contract too so ppl obviously thought reasonably highly of him. Passable top 6 center at the time. Probably should've been 2nd line.

Nothing I'd be excited about, but it wasn't OMG TEH WORST GROUP EVORZ!
I always liked Moore, he woke up a dormant Blake when he arrived in
Toronto, following TB in the playoffs last year he was extremely valuable, a playoff warrior that checked and produced points.

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02-05-2012, 12:08 PM
  #149
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BTW, dudes now mentioning John Mitchell as a big miss here, my goodness, I'd love to have read your posts back then!! Good for him, but he was given all kinds of opportunity here and truth of the matter- and he admitted it for cripes sake- he came in here his last year thinking he was entitled to a spot, didn't fight hard in camp and looked awful. Wilson gave that guy every opportunity, HE played himself off the team and perhaps NY is the beneficiary of that LEARNING process. Please stop with the John Mitchell stuff, I might just hurl.

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02-05-2012, 12:09 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I always liked Moore, he woke up a dormant Blake when he arrived in
Toronto, following TB in the playoffs last year he was extremely valuable, a playoff warrior that checked and produced points.
So what does our GM not wanting to pay Moore have to do with Wilson?

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