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C Elias Lindholm (2013, 5th overall, Carolina)

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Old
12-21-2012, 07:04 AM
  #251
InjuredChoker
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Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
There's no way MacKinnon is in his own tier. Jones and Barkov are in the same tier and even Lindholm can get there. There are plenty of lists where MacKinnon is 2nd or even 3rd.
I agree; he's a favorite but not the clear-cut favorite that's almost a lock for 1st ovr.

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12-21-2012, 07:37 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by The Naz View Post
Well if there's no season, you'll have a fair chance at him, otherwise DET fans can suffer with another 23+ pick. suckers.

Us super fortuitous leaf fans should get a shot at him no matter if there is a season.

Anyway, about the draft, I'm seeing the top in a few tiers:

MacKinnon
---------
Jones
Barkov
Lindholm
---------
Monahan
Drouin
---------
Shinkaruk
---------
the rest...

The groups are in no particular order, and this is just my opinion. I really wish I could watch the WJC this year live.
Mackinnon is not that much better then Jones,Barkov and Lindholm

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Old
12-21-2012, 07:45 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Tasty Biscuits View Post
It's pretty obvious he was being sarcastic, especially since he refers to leaf fans as "super fortuitous" the next sentence -- easy tip off.
You wouldn't think that would have to be said, but.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
There's no way MacKinnon is in his own tier. Jones and Barkov are in the same tier and even Lindholm can get there. There are plenty of lists where MacKinnon is 2nd or even 3rd.
Who knows for sure where the leagues scouts will put him, or more importantly the leagues GM's, as we know they are the ones deciding on a 1st overall. But I think he goes 1st for sure.

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Old
12-22-2012, 03:07 PM
  #254
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Just saw him play first time and must say he is really good.

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Old
12-22-2012, 03:19 PM
  #255
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Honestly all of

Mackinnon
Barkov
Jones
Drouin
Lindholm
Monahan

are near first overall - top 3 talents in most given drafts.

I'd say that Barkov has the best chance to beat Mackinnon for first overall; given they both have upside to be flat out dominant first line centers. At this point I'd be surprised if any of these players didn't blossom to be star NHLers, of course odds are not every prospect reaches his upside, but I don't see any reason to not be extremely confident in this draft's top 6.

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Old
12-22-2012, 03:41 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
Mackinnon is not that much better then Jones,Barkov and Lindholm
I think he is a cut above, his skill, skating, and physical ability is pretty rare. He has so many elite qualities to his game.

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Old
12-22-2012, 05:08 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksPK View Post
Honestly all of

Mackinnon
Barkov
Jones
Drouin
Lindholm
Monahan

are near first overall - top 3 talents in most given drafts.

I'd say that Barkov has the best chance to beat Mackinnon for first overall; given they both have upside to be flat out dominant first line centers. At this point I'd be surprised if any of these players didn't blossom to be star NHLers, of course odds are not every prospect reaches his upside, but I don't see any reason to not be extremely confident in this draft's top 6.
Agreed. Those six are top three talents. I'd say Pulock and Shinkaruk are huge steals outside of the top five, too. After that, though, I think picks 10-30 are fairly typical. Not weak, not strong. It's just the top six to nine players in this draft are incredible.

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Old
12-22-2012, 05:16 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Agreed. Those six are top three talents. I'd say Pulock and Shinkaruk are huge steals outside of the top five, too. After that, though, I think picks 10-30 are fairly typical. Not weak, not strong. It's just the top six to nine players in this draft are incredible.
Ok, perhaps useless, but the constant application of the word steal in the incorrect context is becoming more frequent than the full stop.

No. Pulock and Shinkaruk outside the Top 5 aren't huge steals. Firstly, no player is a steal at 17 because the data required to measure that is years away. Not only do we need solid data of how good they are at the NHL level, we need data of their contemparies. Perhaps in 3-5 years we can begin to say who was taken far below where they should have been.

Secondly, if Pulock and Shinkaruk go outside the Top 5, it is likely because the other players are perceived to be better. A player may turn out to be a better than average 7th overall pick for example, but if the players who proceeded him in the draft are better, then he cannot be a steal. You're not "stealing" anything if the players taken above still turned out to be better.

It baffles me how so many people can use a word so incorrectly so many times.

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Old
12-22-2012, 05:25 PM
  #259
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I read some twitter accounts during today's game that Lindholm wasn't on the ice in the 3rd period. If true, does anyone know why?

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Old
12-22-2012, 08:33 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Ok, perhaps useless, but the constant application of the word steal in the incorrect context is becoming more frequent than the full stop.

No. Pulock and Shinkaruk outside the Top 5 aren't huge steals. Firstly, no player is a steal at 17 because the data required to measure that is years away. Not only do we need solid data of how good they are at the NHL level, we need data of their contemparies. Perhaps in 3-5 years we can begin to say who was taken far below where they should have been.

Secondly, if Pulock and Shinkaruk go outside the Top 5, it is likely because the other players are perceived to be better. A player may turn out to be a better than average 7th overall pick for example, but if the players who proceeded him in the draft are better, then he cannot be a steal. You're not "stealing" anything if the players taken above still turned out to be better.

It baffles me how so many people can use a word so incorrectly so many times.
Sooo...just because they arent drafted top 5 they arent allowed to be good?

The point was that the above mentioned players are all top 3 talents. If Shinkaruk or Pulock was in another draft they would probably go top 5


*woosh*

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Old
12-23-2012, 05:15 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Jarome Iginla View Post
Sooo...just because they arent drafted top 5 they arent allowed to be good?

The point was that the above mentioned players are all top 3 talents. If Shinkaruk or Pulock was in another draft they would probably go top 5


*woosh*
Sigh.

Firstly, i disagree that all these players are Top 3 talents in any given draft. Irrelevant however, given defining what a Top 3 talent is can be somewhat tricky an exercise.

Secondly, how they measure up in other drafts is irrelevant. They aren't being compared to and valued versus those players. The only comparables that matter are those in their draft.

Thirdly, a player cannot be described as a steal during his draft year. Unless you have a crystal ball and know their development and NHL impact?

Fourthly, even if Pulock for examples becomes an elite NHL defenseman, if the players taken above him turn out to be better, then he isn't a "steal". Logically, he went where he should.

Do you see?

Yes, whoosh indeed.

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Old
12-23-2012, 06:42 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by pokerface1 View Post
I read some twitter accounts during today's game that Lindholm wasn't on the ice in the 3rd period. If true, does anyone know why?
Probably afraid that Canadas coaching staff would send, i dunno, Jenner after him. I mean, how dare he make a few defensmen look silly out there!? From THE hockey nation?!? NOT OKAY!

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12-23-2012, 06:59 AM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerface1 View Post
I read some twitter accounts during today's game that Lindholm wasn't on the ice in the 3rd period. If true, does anyone know why?
Canada were goofing it up so its a safe bet that he was put on the bench to avoid uneccesary injuries

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12-23-2012, 07:29 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by JAS 39 Gripen View Post
Probably afraid that Canadas coaching staff would send, i dunno, Jenner after him. I mean, how dare he make a few defensmen look silly out there!? From THE hockey nation?!? NOT OKAY!
To be honest, Lindholm didn't have much going on him yday, maybe they just wanted to give him some extra rest, or scratched.

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Old
12-23-2012, 08:27 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Leehh View Post
To be honest, Lindholm didn't have much going on him yday, maybe they just wanted to give him some extra rest, or scratched.
Yeah, he definitely got scratched

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Old
12-23-2012, 08:48 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
Yeah, he definitely got scratched
Seems like you don't know that even Stamkos has been healthy sratch, sometimes them players just needs that wake-up call, most of the time scratching them when they want to be on ice is enough. Now pull your head out of that dark place.

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12-23-2012, 09:40 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Leehh View Post
Seems like you don't know that even Stamkos has been healthy sratch, sometimes them players just needs that wake-up call, most of the time scratching them when they want to be on ice is enough. Now pull your head out of that dark place.
Except he was one of the best players for Team Sweden in an exhibition game against and created their only goal

But hey, he probably got scratched late in the 3rd period, because even Stamkos has been scratched a few times

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Old
12-23-2012, 09:57 AM
  #268
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Lindholm was one of the better players, did not miss a pass and played hard as usual. Wake up call???

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Old
12-23-2012, 10:45 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Sigh.

Firstly, i disagree that all these players are Top 3 talents in any given draft. Irrelevant however, given defining what a Top 3 talent is can be somewhat tricky an exercise.

Secondly, how they measure up in other drafts is irrelevant. They aren't being compared to and valued versus those players. The only comparables that matter are those in their draft.

Thirdly, a player cannot be described as a steal during his draft year. Unless you have a crystal ball and know their development and NHL impact?

Fourthly, even if Pulock for examples becomes an elite NHL defenseman, if the players taken above him turn out to be better, then he isn't a "steal". Logically, he went where he should.

Do you see?

Yes, whoosh indeed.
"Steals" cost far less than they should. How good the rest of the draft class is doesn't matter. Eberle at 22 is a steal because you have a top quality 1RW. The fact that you missed out on an elite center and 3 elite defencemen doesn't change that.

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12-23-2012, 10:48 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
"Steals" cost far less than they should. How good the rest of the draft class is doesn't matter. Eberle at 22 is a steal because you have a top quality 1RW. The fact that you missed out on an elite center and 3 elite defencemen doesn't change that.
Of course it matters. You define a steal by the other players available. Eberle was a steal, because you picked up one of the best players in the draft at 22. Majority of the previous 21 players aren't better than him. We've also had 4 years of data to analysis for this conclusion to be appropriate.

6 months before a draft, declaring players a steal outside the top 5 because the other 5 players are better is beyond irrationally retarded.

Really isn't a difficult concept at all.

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Old
12-31-2012, 12:16 AM
  #271
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Oh. my. god. Please Leafs, suck this season! This kid is a stud!!

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12-31-2012, 03:06 AM
  #272
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Oh. my. god. Please Leafs, suck this season! This kid is a stud!!
He's been good. Two-way force, lots of physical play. Has more offense to give.

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12-31-2012, 03:14 AM
  #273
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He's been good. Two-way force, lots of physical play. Has more offense to give.
I think hes been good offensively, he is beast around the net and often give his linemates good passes infront of the net but hasnt been lucky in the scoresheet, also he is so good beacuse he rarely makes a bad decision in both ends and is contributing much in the physical play where he brakes up the other teams setups by closing the d-men down good.

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12-31-2012, 07:18 PM
  #274
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Does anyone think his game would translate well to right wing or is he stricktly a center?

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12-31-2012, 08:23 PM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Sigh.

Firstly, i disagree that all these players are Top 3 talents in any given draft. Irrelevant however, given defining what a Top 3 talent is can be somewhat tricky an exercise.

Secondly, how they measure up in other drafts is irrelevant. They aren't being compared to and valued versus those players. The only comparables that matter are those in their draft.

Thirdly, a player cannot be described as a steal during his draft year. Unless you have a crystal ball and know their development and NHL impact?

Fourthly, even if Pulock for examples becomes an elite NHL defenseman, if the players taken above him turn out to be better, then he isn't a "steal". Logically, he went where he should.

Do you see?

Yes, whoosh indeed.

guys can be steals in theor draft years IMO.

Cam Fowler, Grigerenko and Couturier and Forsberg all falling in recent drafts are examples.

Next you will counter that it is all subjective and that's right but the consensus was that all 4 of these guys would go higher and them dropping can be considered "steals".

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