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02-15-2012, 11:26 AM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
I didn't realize that those people who live in office buildings downtown are diehard Jay's fans. I would say the biggest reason we dont draw fans on the weekdays is because of the traffic congestion downtown from rush hour. The entire city is leaving to go home to the housing suburbs and they likely arent to thrilled of the prospect of fighting that flow and head back in for a 3 hour sporting event. Build it closer to where people live, not where all the Corporate offices are located.
Exactly. Downtown is a **** location for the stadium. Not to mention, that Spadina exit is a complete and utter cluster****.

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02-15-2012, 11:59 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
I didn't realize that those people who live in office buildings downtown are diehard Jay's fans. I would say the biggest reason we dont draw fans on the weekdays is because of the traffic congestion downtown from rush hour. The entire city is leaving to go home to the housing suburbs and they likely arent to thrilled of the prospect of fighting that flow and head back in for a 3 hour sporting event. Build it closer to where people live, not where all the Corporate offices are located.
Do you know anything about Toronto? It's almost comical how the each of the 'burbs think that they could maintain or possibly exceed the average attendance that a team would get playing out of downtown. Sorry to burst the 905 bubble, but Toronto isn't a US rustbelt city, the DT core is vibrant with high income earners / most densely populated residential neighborhoods / corporate offices / working suburbanite traffic / tourists etc. No pro sports team in their right mind would attempt to lose those demographics to shove a team somewhere along the 400 series of highways or a GO station. And those corporate offices you're pissing on as a non factor, yah, they're the ones that buy the $$$$$ suites, as if ownership would move away from that so some lazy Mississauga dad can take his son to a game with a couple of $15.00 tickets, but only if he doesn't have to drive downtown or get to union station. smh.

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02-15-2012, 12:03 PM
  #303
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Do you know anything about Toronto? It's almost comical how the each of the 'burbs think that they could maintain or possibly exceed the average attendance that a team would get playing out of downtown. Sorry to burst the 905 bubble, but Toronto isn't a US rustbelt city, the DT core is vibrant with high income earners / most densely populated residential neighborhoods / corporate offices / working suburbanite traffic / tourists etc. No pro sports team in their right mind would attempt to lose those demographics to shove a team somewhere along the 400 series of highways or a GO station.
I lived in Downtown Toronto, and where are you going to put that stadium? The accessibility for drivers is absolute garbage. The Yonge St/Spadina ramps are a complete and utter **** up which makes it even more ridiculous. The off-ramp and on-ramp between those two streets are the same lane, so people are trying to get on, on Yonge and exit the Gardiner on Spadina which leads to so much unnecessary traffic and collisions. Of course, that problem would be solved if more people took the train, but then the GO sucks too as it comes around less than the female ****ing orgasm.

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02-15-2012, 12:23 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by JaysLeafsTFCfan View Post
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story...2012-nos-30-21

ESPN is doing a power rankings of the future of all teams. They only released the teams ranked 21-30 and luckily the Jays are not on it.

#30 Baltimore
#29 Houston - NL Central
#28 Chicago White Sox - AL Central
#27 Cleveland - AL Central
#26 New York Mets
#25 Minnesota - AL Central
#24 Pittsburgh - NL Central
#23 Oakland
#22 Miami Marlins
#21 Milwaukee - NL Central

Notice a pattern? Central divisions suck. It really is dumb how much easier it is for them then teams in the East divisions. When you can only have a max of two teams in the playoffs then divisions need to be divided more fairly. They have an unfair advantage over other teams.
Toronto will be in the top 10.

20) San Diego
19) Los Angelas Dodgers
18) Seattle
17) San Francisco
16) Cincinnati
15) Colorado
14) Washington
13) Chicago Cubs
12) Detroit
11) Kansas City

A lot of people think we have a bright future. I hate bandwagon jumpers but I want our team to be well supported. Hopefully they will jump on soon.

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02-15-2012, 12:28 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by JaysLeafsTFCfan View Post
Toronto will be in the top 10.

20) San Diego

19) Los Angelas Dodgers
18) Seattle
17) San Francisco
16) Cincinnati
15) Colorado
14) Washington
13) Chicago Cubs
12) Detroit
11) Kansas City

A lot of people think we have a bright future. I hate bandwagon jumpers but I want our team to be well supported. Hopefully they will jump on soon.
Whoa whoa whoa. Padres might be the only team that could rank ahead of us. Tremendous depth like the Jays. They're a lock to be in the top 5 if not top 3.

Jays will likely rank in the top 3.

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02-15-2012, 12:32 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Whoa whoa whoa. Padres might be the only team that could rank ahead of us. Tremendous depth like the Jays. They're a lock to be in the top 5 if not top 3.

Jays will likely rank in the top 3.
Rankings probably take into account current roster players as well. I think it's a ranking of the future shape of teams rather than an isolated ranking of prospects.

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02-15-2012, 01:14 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Whoa whoa whoa. Padres might be the only team that could rank ahead of us. Tremendous depth like the Jays. They're a lock to be in the top 5 if not top 3.

Jays will likely rank in the top 3.
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Originally Posted by jpallday View Post
Rankings probably take into account current roster players as well. I think it's a ranking of the future shape of teams rather than an isolated ranking of prospects.
The rankings take into account:

-talent in the majors
-farm system
-strength of front office staff and managers
-financial strength
-contract "mobility" (cheap, attractive contracts for good players vs overpriced vets with immovable deals)

ESPN says that their methodology is that they ranked all the teams from 1st to 30th in each of those categories (with point values. 30 pts for 1st, 29 for 2nd, etc etc all the way down to 1 point for being dead last) then weight each category to get a score out of 100 (though their listed weights are wrong for producing a 100 point score)

San Diego was ranked:

24th for major league talent
2nd for minor league system
26th for finances
23rd for management
16th for contract mobility

overall score of 41.0 (comparatively, KC had 55.1 sitting at 11th)

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02-15-2012, 01:19 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
The rankings take into account:

-talent in the majors
-farm system
-strength of front office staff and managers
-financial strength
-contract "mobility" (cheap, attractive contracts for good players vs overpriced vets with immovable deals)

ESPN says that their methodology is that they ranked all the teams from 1st to 30th in each of those categories (with point values. 30 pts for 1st, 29 for 2nd, etc etc all the way down to 1 point for being dead last) then weight each category to get a score out of 100 (though their listed weights are wrong for producing a 100 point score)

San Diego was ranked:

24th for major league talent
2nd for minor league system
26th for finances
23rd for management
16th for contract mobility

overall score of 41.0 (comparatively, KC had 55.1 sitting at 11th)

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02-15-2012, 01:20 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by jpallday View Post
Rankings probably take into account current roster players as well. I think it's a ranking of the future shape of teams rather than an isolated ranking of prospects.
Oh fail, I thought it was a farm system ranking.

Then yeah that's about right of them.

Jays will probably be 8-10.

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02-15-2012, 01:24 PM
  #310
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I didn't do any of the math. Well, ok, I tried to figure out how the hell they got a 100 points scale out of weightings that add up to 110, but there rest of it I just copied from ESPN's explanation of the rankings. And I have no idea how they got the score they did.

San Diego scored 60 raw points (6, 29, 4, 7, 14 respectively), and the weights are allegedly full for majors and minors, 2/3rds for finances and management, 1/3rd for mobility. But that comes out to 46.88. And if you try to express that as percentages of 110, it's still 42.6

I have no idea where 41.0 came from.


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02-15-2012, 01:24 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Jatt View Post
Do you know anything about Toronto? It's almost comical how the each of the 'burbs think that they could maintain or possibly exceed the average attendance that a team would get playing out of downtown. Sorry to burst the 905 bubble, but Toronto isn't a US rustbelt city, the DT core is vibrant with high income earners / most densely populated residential neighborhoods / corporate offices / working suburbanite traffic / tourists etc. No pro sports team in their right mind would attempt to lose those demographics to shove a team somewhere along the 400 series of highways or a GO station. And those corporate offices you're pissing on as a non factor, yah, they're the ones that buy the $$$$$ suites, as if ownership would move away from that so some lazy Mississauga dad can take his son to a game with a couple of $15.00 tickets, but only if he doesn't have to drive downtown or get to union station. smh.
No I don't think a suburb can support a franchise, the entire region does. I am merely arguing (as Jaysfanatic is also) is that the location of the dome now and most other places in the downtown core have piss poor accessability and that is a major limiting factor to drawing more casual fans. Yea, I might be willing to go through a bit of hassel to go see a game but is Joe Blow going to go out of his way to endure traffic and incompetant transit lines? most likely not.

Just look at most professional sports venue's, most are built outside of a busy core to ease congestion, moving the Jay's home outside of Downtown Toronto does not take away the "Toronto" from the team.

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02-15-2012, 01:27 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
The rankings take into account:

-talent in the majors
-farm system
-strength of front office staff and managers
-financial strength
-contract "mobility" (cheap, attractive contracts for good players vs overpriced vets with immovable deals)

ESPN says that their methodology is that they ranked all the teams from 1st to 30th in each of those categories (with point values. 30 pts for 1st, 29 for 2nd, etc etc all the way down to 1 point for being dead last) then weight each category to get a score out of 100 (though their listed weights are wrong for producing a 100 point score)

San Diego was ranked:

24th for major league talent
2nd for minor league system
26th for finances
23rd for management
16th for contract mobility

overall score of 41.0 (comparatively, KC had 55.1 sitting at 11th)
In that case I would probably rank us

-talent in the majors: 8-12 range
-farm system: 1-3 range
-strength of front office staff and managers: top 5
-financial strength: 5-10 mostly due to the "mobility" of our contracts.
-contract "mobility": top 5

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02-15-2012, 01:40 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
No I don't think a suburb can support a franchise, the entire region does. I am merely arguing (as Jaysfanatic is also) is that the location of the dome now and most other places in the downtown core have piss poor accessability and that is a major limiting factor to drawing more casual fans. Yea, I might be willing to go through a bit of hassel to go see a game but is Joe Blow going to go out of his way to endure traffic and incompetant transit lines? most likely not.

Just look at most professional sports venue's, most are built outside of a busy core to ease congestion, moving the Jay's home outside of Downtown Toronto does not take away the "Toronto" from the team.
Exactly. Or if you're going to have it, have a mass transit system that runs on time. the GO from Lakeshore comes around every hour. If it was every 10 minutes, the location where it is, is nice.

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02-15-2012, 01:41 PM
  #314
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alright, ESPN really doesn't know what they're doing. They said it was based on rankings, but multiple teams have the same score for the same category. so it wasn't ranked, it's a point system I guess. A point system that still doesn't add up properly.

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02-15-2012, 01:46 PM
  #315
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Alright, mister Tyrannosaurus math wizard, just let it go. It's ESPN being ESPN.

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02-15-2012, 01:46 PM
  #316
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alright, ESPN really doesn't know what they're doing. They said it was based on rankings, but multiple teams have the same score for the same category. so it wasn't ranked, it's a point system I guess. A point system that still doesn't add up properly.
Ignore espn. Bunch of monkeys on type-writers.

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02-15-2012, 02:04 PM
  #317
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While its nice that the Jays rank in the top 10, it would be exceptionally surprising if three others teams in the East didn't rank in the top 5.

Stupid division

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02-15-2012, 02:06 PM
  #318
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Exactly. Or if you're going to have it, have a mass transit system that runs on time. the GO from Lakeshore comes around every hour. If it was every 10 minutes, the location where it is, is nice.
Apples and Oranges, spend multiple Billions upgrading the transit system or spend it on a new sports facility, it would probably be cheaper to build a new stadium when you look at just how much money would be needed to completely revamp the infastructure.

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02-15-2012, 02:07 PM
  #319
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While its nice that the Jays rank in the top 10, it would be exceptionally surprising if three others teams in the East didn't rank in the top 5.

Stupid division
I like to think that in the future its going to be a blessing to play in the AL east, I know it sucks now but when we finally rise to the top. Simply winning the division makes you a world series favorite, hell you played 54 playoff games during the season to get into the playoffs, playing mini series against watered down competition is a cake walk

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02-15-2012, 02:09 PM
  #320
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The transit system needs a major, major facelift. It ranks second last in cities I've visited. Mumbai being dead last on that list. The transit overhaul will be beneficial to EVERY ONE including planet Earth as compared to just a baseball stadium.

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02-15-2012, 02:12 PM
  #321
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IMO the problem with the rogers centre downtown is that they are relying too heavily on tourists at this point. With the ridiculous amount of condos they just threw up around it and not one extra street it's a garbage location. Transit isn't good to get to the rogers centre. Using the sauga example. There are almost 750k people in Sauga. Another 86k in Milton. Over another 500k in Kitchener/Waterloo. Another 500k in Brampton although I don't expect much from the Brampton population. Another 40k from Georgetown. Just with those communities it is about enough to support the team. They would lose the fans that live close to the dome who can just walk to a game but they would gain better access for all those other people. It would also be more difficult for east enders to see the games but there is value to moving the team away from the core.

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02-15-2012, 02:12 PM
  #322
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Apples and Oranges, spend multiple Billions upgrading the transit system or spend it on a new sports facility, it would probably be cheaper to build a new stadium when you look at just how much money would be needed to completely revamp the infastructure.
I think the majority of the TTC subway extensions planned are stupid. I want to see more networks within the interior of the GTA so we don't have to clog up the roads with pointless streetcars that break down every day. However, building a new outdoor stadium, in say Vaughan, would legitimize the project, and could see a much higher approval rating as a result.

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02-15-2012, 02:12 PM
  #323
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Yeah, forget Brampton. If it was for Cricket, go nuts

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02-15-2012, 02:13 PM
  #324
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The transit system needs a major, major facelift. It ranks second last in cities I've visited. Mumbai being dead last on that list. The transit overhaul will be beneficial to EVERY ONE including planet Earth as compared to just a baseball stadium.
It's ridiculous that they didn't keep building subway lines as the city grew. Simply zero urban planning for the city.

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02-15-2012, 02:19 PM
  #325
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IMO the problem with the rogers centre downtown is that they are relying too heavily on tourists at this point. With the ridiculous amount of condos they just threw up around it and not one extra street it's a garbage location. Transit isn't good to get to the rogers centre. Using the sauga example. There are almost 750k people in Sauga. Another 86k in Milton. Over another 500k in Kitchener/Waterloo. Another 500k in Brampton although I don't expect much from the Brampton population. Another 40k from Georgetown. Just with those communities it is about enough to support the team. They would lose the fans that live close to the dome who can just walk to a game but they would gain better access for all those other people. It would also be more difficult for east enders to see the games but there is value to moving the team away from the core.
Oh dont worry, I can get all my redneck friends out to games to makeup the loss from the east side of the city lol

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