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Old
02-06-2012, 11:03 AM
  #1
remer
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Buyer Beware of Trade Deadline

I think we all get excited about the possibilities come trade deadline. Can our GM look like a genius and bring in some big talent for little in return. Reality is that many teams make some big mistakes come trade deadline. For example L.A. trading for Dustin Penner for Tuebert, 1st and 3rd rd pick. Washington trading for Arnott for Stekel and a 2nd. Even the Panthers giving up on Wideman to Washington for Hausewith and a 3rd.

Chiarelli has won some and lost as well on trade deadline.
2010
Morris for a 3rd round pick- loss
Kampfer for a 4th round pick- maybe a win
Seidenberg and Bartowski for Bitz, Weller and 2nd- huge win

2011
Kaberele for Colbourne, 1st rd pick (Tyler Biggs) and a 2nd in 2012- Huge loss
Peverley for Wheeler and Stuart- probably a loss
Kelley for a 2nd - huge win


So as this trade deadline approaches, Buyer Beware!
This is one of the days GM's make great decisions and win trades or are on the losing end and set back their franchise.

Who will makes the big moves? Which team will load up for the playoffs? Who could be a team that surprises everyone?

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Old
02-06-2012, 11:08 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remer View Post
I think we all get excited about the possibilities come trade deadline. Can our GM look like a genius and bring in some big talent for little in return. Reality is that many teams make some big mistakes come trade deadline. For example L.A. trading for Dustin Penner for Tuebert, 1st and 3rd rd pick. Washington trading for Arnott for Stekel and a 2nd. Even the Panthers giving up on Wideman to Washington for Hausewith and a 3rd.

Chiarelli has won some and lost as well on trade deadline.
2010
Morris for a 3rd round pick- loss
Kampfer for a 4th round pick- maybe a win
Seidenberg and Bartowski for Bitz, Weller and 2nd- huge win

2011
Kaberele for Colbourne, 1st rd pick (Tyler Biggs) and a 2nd in 2012- Huge loss
Peverley for Wheeler and Stuart- probably a loss
Kelley for a 2nd - huge win


So as this trade deadline approaches, Buyer Beware!
This is one of the days GM's make great decisions and win trades or are on the losing end and set back their franchise.

Who will makes the big moves? Which team will load up for the playoffs? Who could be a team that surprises everyone?
It is very much buyer beware but this year I sense a lot of caution from the Bruins which negates that somewhat. Now if I am LA or Washington or somebody who might very well be up to something with each other in fact then yep, buyer beware.

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02-06-2012, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remer View Post
I think we all get excited about the possibilities come trade deadline. Can our GM look like a genius and bring in some big talent for little in return. Reality is that many teams make some big mistakes come trade deadline. For example L.A. trading for Dustin Penner for Tuebert, 1st and 3rd rd pick. Washington trading for Arnott for Stekel and a 2nd. Even the Panthers giving up on Wideman to Washington for Hausewith and a 3rd.

Chiarelli has won some and lost as well on trade deadline.
2010
Morris for a 3rd round pick- loss
Kampfer for a 4th round pick- maybe a win
Seidenberg and Bartowski for Bitz, Weller and 2nd- huge win

2011
Kaberele for Colbourne, 1st rd pick (Tyler Biggs) and a 2nd in 2012- Huge loss
Peverley for Wheeler and Stuart- probably a loss

Kelley for a 2nd - huge win


So as this trade deadline approaches, Buyer Beware!
This is one of the days GM's make great decisions and win trades or are on the losing end and set back their franchise.

Who will makes the big moves? Which team will load up for the playoffs? Who could be a team that surprises everyone?

= Win

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Old
02-06-2012, 11:11 AM
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Bill Ladd
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
= Win
Yeah, I don't see a single loss on that trade deadline record. Now, Bochenski for Versteeg on the other hand...

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Old
02-06-2012, 11:13 AM
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cursednumber6, I don't think we're going to be as cautious as you may believe. It's already generally accepted that the B's are looking for depth at D and F, now with Hortons health a question, I can see the team making a bigger splash for some scoring. Be it a rental player or not, I think the B's front office will surprise people and make an aggressive move, and it's that kind of move that can either make the front office look like geniuses or goats.

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02-06-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Yeah, I don't see a single loss on that trade deadline record. Now, Bochenski for Versteeg on the other hand...
I think it's time to move on from the Versteeg trade. There's a reason he's been with 5 teams in his short career.

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02-06-2012, 11:14 AM
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If they can move Caron and some picks for a winger/defenseman then I would do it but no big moves this year. Just do not think it's needed.

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02-06-2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
I think it's time to move on from the Versteeg trade. There's a reason he's been with 5 teams in his short career.
Yes, everybody wants him.

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02-06-2012, 11:17 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remer View Post
I think we all get excited about the possibilities come trade deadline. Can our GM look like a genius and bring in some big talent for little in return. Reality is that many teams make some big mistakes come trade deadline. For example L.A. trading for Dustin Penner for Tuebert, 1st and 3rd rd pick. Washington trading for Arnott for Stekel and a 2nd. Even the Panthers giving up on Wideman to Washington for Hausewith and a 3rd.

Chiarelli has won some and lost as well on trade deadline.
2010
Morris for a 3rd round pick- loss
Kampfer for a 4th round pick- maybe a win
Seidenberg and Bartowski for Bitz, Weller and 2nd- huge win

2011
Kaberele for Colbourne, 1st rd pick (Tyler Biggs) and a 2nd in 2012- Huge loss
Peverley for Wheeler and Stuart- probably a loss
Kelley for a 2nd - huge win


So as this trade deadline approaches, Buyer Beware!
This is one of the days GM's make great decisions and win trades or are on the losing end and set back their franchise.

Who will makes the big moves? Which team will load up for the playoffs? Who could be a team that surprises everyone?
So much wrong. How is the Peverley trade probably a loss?
They did not draft Biggs with our pic. They traded it and a second to move up.
It drives me nuts when people start a thread and don't take to two extra minutes to make sure they've spelled the players names right. This isn't a grammar police thing as my grammar and for that matter spelling is terrible. Just a pet peeve of mine.

Kelly
Colborne
Bartkowski
Kaberle

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02-06-2012, 11:18 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Yes, everybody wants him.
Touche.


Or, everyone wants to get rid of him....

He's a decent player, but I don't see it as a huge loss like most people here do. I have never really been a fan of the guy.

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02-06-2012, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
So much wrong. How is the Peverley trade probably a loss?
They did not draft Biggs with our pic. They traded it and a second to move up.
It drives me nuts when people start a thread and don't take to two extra minutes to make sure they've spelled the players names right. This isn't a grammar police thing as my grammar and for that matter spelling is terrible. Just a pet peeve of mine.

Kelly
Colborne
Bartkowski
Kaberle
We all can make mistakes. Sorry for mis-spelling

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02-06-2012, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
= Win
The trade and the cup win are not mutually exclusive. You can look at them as two independent activities. Many other players could have had a far better impact than what TK did here. So yes, they won the cup but it wasn't because of that move. What you're doing is dismissing the bad trade because of the cup win, and that's just ridiculous. If anything, they won the cup despite having that anchor tied around their necks. He was a defensive liability every time he was on the ice.

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02-06-2012, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
Touche.


Or, everyone wants to get rid of him....

He's a decent player, but I don't see it as a huge loss like most people here do. I have never really been a fan of the guy.
Oh I like him and would take him on this team. He's like Peverley+ IMO. But I only brought him up to show I wasn't totally biased with my "all those deals look like winners' comment. PC has made mistakes, but I think all the ones listed worked out pretty well.

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Old
02-06-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remer View Post
I think we all get excited about the possibilities come trade deadline. Can our GM look like a genius and bring in some big talent for little in return. Reality is that many teams make some big mistakes come trade deadline. For example L.A. trading for Dustin Penner for Tuebert, 1st and 3rd rd pick. Washington trading for Arnott for Stekel and a 2nd. Even the Panthers giving up on Wideman to Washington for Hausewith and a 3rd.

Chiarelli has won some and lost as well on trade deadline.
2010
Morris for a 3rd round pick- loss
Kampfer for a 4th round pick- maybe a win
Seidenberg and Bartowski for Bitz, Weller and 2nd- huge win

2011
Kaberele for Colbourne, 1st rd pick (Tyler Biggs) and a 2nd in 2012- Huge loss
Peverley for Wheeler and Stuart- probably a loss
Kelley for a 2nd - huge win


So as this trade deadline approaches, Buyer Beware!
This is one of the days GM's make great decisions and win trades or are on the losing end and set back their franchise.

Who will makes the big moves? Which team will load up for the playoffs? Who could be a team that surprises everyone?
I think they would still make this move, and I know I would.

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02-06-2012, 11:42 AM
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Colborne's dad can't pay his way into the NHL so who knows what will happen to him.


I'd make all the trades over again.

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02-06-2012, 11:47 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by remer View Post
Peverley for Wheeler and Stuart- probably a loss
I actually think this worked out good for the B's. I have a hard time seeing this as a loss.

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02-06-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remer View Post
I think we all get excited about the possibilities come trade deadline. Can our GM look like a genius and bring in some big talent for little in return. Reality is that many teams make some big mistakes come trade deadline. For example L.A. trading for Dustin Penner for Tuebert, 1st and 3rd rd pick. Washington trading for Arnott for Stekel and a 2nd. Even the Panthers giving up on Wideman to Washington for Hausewith and a 3rd.

Chiarelli has won some and lost as well on trade deadline.
2010
Morris for a 3rd round pick- loss
Kampfer for a 4th round pick- maybe a win
Seidenberg and Bartowski for Bitz, Weller and 2nd- huge win

2011
Kaberele for Colbourne, 1st rd pick (Tyler Biggs) and a 2nd in 2012- Huge loss
Peverley for Wheeler and Stuart- probably a loss
Kelley for a 2nd - huge win


So as this trade deadline approaches, Buyer Beware!
This is one of the days GM's make great decisions and win trades or are on the losing end and set back their franchise.

Who will makes the big moves? Which team will load up for the playoffs? Who could be a team that surprises everyone?
How can losing Morris be a loss when the below trade was a win?

Both trades were wins, IMO.

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02-06-2012, 11:59 AM
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I actually think this worked out good for the B's. I have a hard time seeing this as a loss.
Agreed. The Peverley and Kelly acquisitions were probably the most beneficial acquisitions as both played a pretty significant role in the B's cup run. It's hard to say where the team would've ended up without them, but they both seemed to add a new dynamic to the roster and the versatility they provided was crucial to the team's success.

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02-06-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
How can losing Morris be a loss when the below trade was a win?

Both trades were wins, IMO.
Morris had a NTC and would only accept a trade to Phoenix, which meant that PC basically had to take below market value (they got a 3rd, while similar players were getting 2nd rounders) just to move the guy to make room for Seidenberg. I get why that could be considered a loss.

To me though, the big piece to consider was the mistake of signing Morris (and giving him a NTC) over just signing Seidenberg to start with. I give PC credit for fixing his miscue, but he could have made life a lot easier on himself if he had signed Seids from the get go.

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02-06-2012, 12:01 PM
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The Peverley trade is a tough one.

Peverely signed for 3 years a t 3.25 mill than a UFA. Was a waiver wire pick-up for Atlanata at the time. A bit of a late bloomer. 29 years of age with 36 points.

Wheeler signed for one more year at 2.55 mill than a RFA. First round draft pick. 26 years of age with 35 points.

Stuart signed for two more years at 1.7 mill than a UFA. First round draft pick. 27 years of age with 7 points.

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02-06-2012, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Morris had a NTC and would only accept a trade to Phoenix, which meant that PC basically had to take below market value (they got a 3rd, while similar players were getting 2nd rounders) just to move the guy to make room for Seidenberg. I get why that could be considered a loss.

To me though, the big piece to consider was the mistake of signing Morris (and giving him a NTC) over just signing Seidenberg to start with. I give PC credit for fixing his miscue, but he could have made life a lot easier on himself if he had signed Seids from the get go.
Exactly! Chia did not get the best value for Morris due to the NTC. In hindsite, he had a chance to pick up Seidenberg as a UFA and chosse Morris.

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02-06-2012, 12:10 PM
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The trade and the cup win are not mutually exclusive. You can look at them as two independent activities. Many other players could have had a far better impact than what TK did here. So yes, they won the cup but it wasn't because of that move. What you're doing is dismissing the bad trade because of the cup win, and that's just ridiculous. If anything, they won the cup despite having that anchor tied around their necks. He was a defensive liability every time he was on the ice.
The problem with "could have" scenarios is that they're only a theoretical; in reality, Kaberle was 2nd on the team in assists and was a reasonable +8. I'm more confident with the facts of what happened than in the theories of what might have happened with another player in his place.

The B's overpaid for him, but not to the point that it was a loss, IMHO.

Quote:
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The Peverley trade is a tough one.

Peverely signed for 3 years a t 3.25 mill than a UFA. Was a waiver wire pick-up for Atlanata at the time. A bit of a late bloomer. 29 years of age with 36 points.

Wheeler signed for one more year at 2.55 mill than a RFA. First round draft pick. 26 years of age with 35 points.

Stuart signed for two more years at 1.7 mill than a UFA. First round draft pick. 27 years of age with 7 points.
I don't think it was a tough one at all; Stuart would be redundant on this team (with better players at better cap hits, e.g. McQuaid) and I don't think Wheeler being slotted on the 3rd line with Pouliot & Kelly would have created a line as productive as Peverley did with those two. It both helped the team in the short term (as in last year's Cup run) and also in the long run (as in this year.)

I'd do that trade again 1000x over.

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02-06-2012, 12:10 PM
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The only loss on the list is the Kaberle trade IMO. I'm still not sold on Colborne, but he was a valuable asset at the time. As was the 1st round pick. Even if those pieces never amount to anything, it was far too much to give up for a soft 5th defenseman who racked up points on a terrible team. I doubt Chiarelli regrets any moves made during the 10/11 season though. It's a loss on paper only.

Karsums and Lashoff for Recchi and 2nd was also a huge steal.

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02-06-2012, 12:19 PM
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Regardless of age and money, Peverley plays a much more complete game than Wheeler does.

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02-06-2012, 12:20 PM
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The problem with "could have" scenarios is that they're only a theoretical; in reality, Kaberle was 2nd on the team in assists and was a reasonable +8. I'm more confident with the facts of what happened than in the theories of what might have happened with another player in his place.

The B's overpaid for him, but not to the point that it was a loss, IMHO.
You've just done what everyone does when talking about Kaberle in a positive light. You bring up his assists, yet you disregard the multiple defensive gaffes, and his overall lack of defensive ability. The guy may have been second in assists, but anyone who watched those games can tell you that he was the match up the opposing teams were targeting. All through the Vancouver series, whenever he was on the ice, Vagneault tried like hell to get the sedins out against him. Why is that, if he was such a stout player and had a reasonable plus minus? If he were so good, why did Claude essentially limit his minutes as much as he did?

There's a reason he was a plus 8, and it's because CJ didn't put him out in key spots or where he could negatively impact the game for them. So I say they may have won the cup, but again, it was despite having to roll with Kaberle on the backend not because of it.

That trade is a loss for the price they paid alone, and while the cup win certainly makes it more palatable, it doesn't make take away the fact that they grossly overpaid for a player who's contributions were marginal at best.

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