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Redo Round 1, 2002.

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Old
10-22-2004, 09:05 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-SHARKIE
Two things....You have to question of Talbots game well work in the NHL.
I never said it would work, and I also never said I'd put him in the first round.

Quote:
2nd: You never seen Mike Morris play.
I have not. But that doesn't stop you from piecing together an opinion on every prospect in the history of the world, does it?

To say Morris wouldn't make the top 100 of the 2002 draft may be a stretch, because he may fall in there around #60 or 70. But to say he's definitaly not a 1st round is a no-brainer. My thinking is that he's almost 22 years old and has just started to play at a relatively high level of hockey. And San Jose's HF.com rankings don't really help his cause either. The guy's ranked as the 10th best prospect in the organization.

As for the top 100 players thing, just by going over the list of picks that year here are guys (right now) that I'd take ahead of Mike Morris:

Nash
Lehtonen
Bouwmeester
Pitkanen
Whitney
Upshall
Lupul
Bouchard
Taticek
Nystrom
Ballard
Eminger
Semin
Higgins
Niinimaki
Klepis
Gordon
Grebeshkov
Koreis
Paille
Babchuk
Bergenheim
Eager
Steen
Ward
Johansson
Toivonen
Slater
Deslauriers
Stephan
Nemec
Stoll
Brent
Harding
Globke
Lindstrom
Holtet
Daley
Greene
LeNeveu
Kaygorodov
Shkotov
Koltsov
Anshakov
Keith
Evseev
Stajan
Hudler
Daigneault
Boychuck
Fleischmann
Kanko
Campbell
Skinner
Jonasen
D'Amour
Lombardi
Filppula
Lambert
Segal
Fernholm
Wisniewski
Foy
Pietrasiak
Bartschi
Ferland
Meech
Talbot
Prucha
Immonen
Reid

So there are 71 guys that I'd take ahead of Morris. Remember, draft position means absolutely nothing. There are guys like Prucha, Talbot, and Reid that have come on after their draft years. Prucha producing at a much higher level than the NCAA, Talbot being a heart and soul player while tearing up the QMJHL, and Reid who had great numbers in the WHL. I saw Reid a few times last season on TV and he's the closest thing to Michael Ryder I've seen.

Not sure how many of those guys you can make a case for not being ahead of Morris after 2 years, but it's definitely no more than maybe 15.

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Old
10-22-2004, 09:08 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
I never said it would work, and I also never said I'd put him in the first round.


I have not. But that doesn't stop you from piecing together an opinion on every prospect in the history of the world, does it?

To say Morris wouldn't make the top 100 of the 2002 draft may be a stretch, because he may fall in there around #60 or 70. But to say he's definitaly not a 1st round is a no-brainer. My thinking is that he's almost 22 years old and has just started to play at a relatively high level of hockey. And San Jose's HF.com rankings don't really help his cause either. The guy's ranked as the 10th best prospect in the organization.

As for the top 100 players thing, just by going over the list of picks that year here are guys (right now) that I'd take ahead of Mike Morris:

Nash
Lehtonen
Bouwmeester
Pitkanen
Whitney
Upshall
Lupul
Bouchard
Taticek
Nystrom
Ballard
Eminger
Semin
Higgins
Niinimaki
Klepis
Gordon
Grebeshkov
Koreis
Paille
Babchuk
Bergenheim
Eager
Steen
Ward
Johansson
Toivonen
Slater
Deslauriers
Stephan
Nemec
Stoll
Brent
Harding
Globke
Lindstrom
Holtet
Daley
Greene
LeNeveu
Kaygorodov
Shkotov
Koltsov
Anshakov
Keith
Evseev
Stajan
Hudler
Daigneault
Boychuck
Fleischmann
Kanko
Campbell
Skinner
Jonasen
D'Amour
Lombardi
Filppula
Lambert
Segal
Fernholm
Wisniewski
Foy
Pietrasiak
Bartschi
Ferland
Meech
Talbot
Prucha
Immonen
Reid

So there are 71 guys that I'd take ahead of Morris. Remember, draft position means absolutely nothing. There are guys like Prucha, Talbot, and Reid that have come on after their draft years. Prucha producing at a much higher level than the NCAA, Talbot being a heart and soul player while tearing up the QMJHL, and Reid who had great numbers in the WHL. I saw Reid a few times last season on TV and he's the closest thing to Michael Ryder I've seen.

Not sure how many of those guys you can make a case for not being ahead of Morris after 2 years, but it's definitely no more than maybe 10.

All I gotta say is wow,

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Old
10-22-2004, 09:12 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix

So there are 71 guys that I'd take ahead of Morris
But you are basing this on your ignorance of this player. He is not widely talked about, if at all on this forum. I doubt you visit the Sharks board often if there is a thread that mentions him.

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Old
10-22-2004, 09:16 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero of Tragedy
But you are basing this on your ignorance of this player. He is not widely talked about, if at all on this forum. I doubt you visit the Sharks board often if there is a thread that mentions him.
Facts aren't igorant.

He's 22 (3 months) and hasn't done anything while the players I've listed have.

Will he develop into a better player than Reid, Talbot, or Prucha? Possibly, but right now he's done nothing to deserve a spot in the top 2 rounds of a "redo" draft.

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10-22-2004, 09:20 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Facts aren't igorant.

He's 22 (3 months) and hasn't done anything while the players I've listed have.

Will he develop into a better player than Reid, Talbot, or Prucha? Possibly, but right now he's done nothing to deserve a spot in the top 2 rounds of a "redo" draft.
I repeat you never seen him play. This guy plays for a BAD BAD team...him and Jason Guerriro are the team offensively basically.

This guy has great speed, he has great creativity, his anticipation is ELITE! he works hard as anyone on the ice, I mean he's the real deal, nothing really great about him but he excells in all areas and really careys a bad team...... IMO He's a safe bet to be a third liner in the NHL but he also posseses 2nd line skill and IMO he reminds me alot of a Marco Sturm, even though he doesn't have Sturms elite speed, but he has better finishing skills.

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Old
10-22-2004, 09:35 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Facts aren't igorant.

He's 22 (3 months) and hasn't done anything while the players I've listed have.

Will he develop into a better player than Reid, Talbot, or Prucha? Possibly, but right now he's done nothing to deserve a spot in the top 2 rounds of a "redo" draft.
Seeing how he's a mid '83 born, I'm not sure how you got that 22 and 3 months. But I'm not surprised as you know next to nothing about him so there would be no reason for you to draft him in the top 2 rounds. However, the Sharks scouting staff did (forgive me if I hold them in higher credibility) and still hold him as one of their top talents. Like I said before, he has nothing to justify an improved ranking but he has done more than enough to justify his first round selection. You have no right to say that "he has done nothing to deserve a spot in the top 2 rounds" considering you have never seen him play or follow him even in the slightest.


Last edited by Patty Ice: 10-22-2004 at 09:41 PM.
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Old
10-22-2004, 09:39 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-SHARKIE
I repeat you never seen him play. This guy plays for a BAD BAD team...him and Jason Guerriro are the team offensively basically.

This guy has great speed, he has great creativity, his anticipation is ELITE! he works hard as anyone on the ice, I mean he's the real deal, nothing really great about him but he excells in all areas and really careys a bad team...... IMO He's a safe bet to be a third liner in the NHL but he also posseses 2nd line skill and IMO he reminds me alot of a Marco Sturm, even though he doesn't have Sturms elite speed, but he has better finishing skills.
As I said, I don't mean he's a bad player. But he's done nothing so far in his career to be considered a first round pick in the NHL. Max Talbot has done more so far in his career, it's shouldn't shock anyone if Talbot is placed ahead of Morris in the draft.

Of all the 30 picks in 2002, Morris is the one guy that has managed to do nothing so far but make the move to the NCAA at the age of 19 and play what... 60 games by the age of 22?

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Old
10-22-2004, 09:46 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero of Tragedy
Seeing how he's a mid '83 born, I'm not sure how you got that 22 and 3 months.
uscollegehockey.com and NHL.com has him born on January 10th, 1983.

http://www.nhl.com/futures/bios/2002draft/morris.html

Quote:
But I'm not surprised as you know next to nothing about him so there would be no reason for you to draft him in the top 2 rounds. However, the Sharks scouting staff did (forgive me if I hold them in higher credibility) and still hold him as one of their top talents. Like I said before, he has nothing to justify an improved ranking but he has done more than enough to justify his first round selection. You have no right to say that "he has done nothing to deserve a spot in the top 2 rounds" considering you have never seen him play or follow him even in the slightest.
That's fine, but this is a redo of the top round. To say Morris deserves to be in it over guys like Daley, Hudler, Koltsov, etc... is crazy. My point is that I'm not sure he's done enough since June of 2002 to even be put up ahead of Talbot, a guy that has moved his way up in the top 50 or so picks from that draft.

He may be a good NHL'er, but right now there's no reason to think he deserves his spot ahead of the other players I noted.

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Old
10-22-2004, 09:56 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
uscollegehockey.com and NHL.com has him born on January 10th, 1983.

http://www.nhl.com/futures/bios/2002draft/morris.html


That's fine, but this is a redo of the top round. To say Morris deserves to be in it over guys like Daley, Hudler, Koltsov, etc... is crazy. My point is that I'm not sure he's done enough since June of 2002 to even be put up ahead of Talbot, a guy that has moved his way up in the top 50 or so picks from that draft.

He may be a good NHL'er, but right now there's no reason to think he deserves his spot ahead of the other players I noted.
Trust me he's a July '83 born. Like I said, you do not know anything about his progress at Northeastern and no one on these boards talks about him (or most Sharks prospects) so I wouldn't expect YOU to hold him in high regard but professionals do and would have him rated late 1st to early 2nd. To come into his freshman year as the quarterback for the teams powerplay speaks volume on his initial skillset after his draft year and it has only gotten louder as he has been used in all situations and improved his all-around play year after year. Go ahead and take yer players who have the hype around them. I'll stick with the guys who show heart and dedication to improvement.

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Old
10-22-2004, 10:05 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero of Tragedy
Trust me he's a July '83 born. Like I said, you do not know anything about his progress at Northeastern and no one on these boards talks about him (or most Sharks prospects) so I wouldn't expect YOU to hold him in high regard but professionals do and would have him rated late 1st to early 2nd. To come into his freshman year as the quarterback for the teams powerplay speaks volume on his initial skillset after his draft year and it has only gotten louder as he has been used in all situations and improved his all-around play year after year. Go ahead and take yer players who have the hype around them. I'll stick with the guys who show heart and dedication to improvement.
Right, and you wouldn't take any of these ahead of Morris...

Matthew Stajan
Jeff Deslauiers
David LeNeveu
Tim Brent
Rob Globke
Trevor Daley
Hannu Toivonen
Jim Slater
Kirill Koltsov
Josh Harding
Jiri Hudler

... ?

All but 2 being the same age and at a much high level in their development stage?

EDIT: Slater and Globke are the older ones, both '82s.


Last edited by leafaholix*: 10-22-2004 at 10:09 PM.
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Old
10-22-2004, 10:09 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Right, and you wouldn't take any of these ahead of Morris...

Matthew Stajan
Jeff Deslauiers
David LeNeveu
Tim Brent
Rob Globke
Trevor Daley
Hannu Toivonen
Jim Slater
Kirill Koltsov
Josh Harding
Jiri Hudler

... ?

All being the same age and at a much high level in their development stage?
Knowing the Sharks needs and tendencies, the only guy I would take would be Jim Slater (but he was the guy I wanted after the Leafs took Steen anyways). Not to say that Morris is better (or worse) than any of those players but the Sharks scouting staff likes what Morris has to offer.

Out of that list LeNeveu, Globke, and Slater are all high on my list and would be alternatives.

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10-24-2004, 12:46 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by TML
Whitney over Semin or Lupul? Gimme a break....
I guess you have never seen Ryan Whitney play.

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10-24-2004, 01:16 AM
  #38
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Nobody even listed Jarkko Immonen as top 30 from 2002? I'd say he should be somewhere on peoples lists there.

Maybe I'm overrating him but I'd see him around number 15. The finnish league is a good league and hes leading it in points and was 3rd last year.


Last edited by NYRangers: 10-24-2004 at 01:20 AM.
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Old
10-24-2004, 02:22 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
I never said it would work, and I also never said I'd put him in the first round.


I have not. But that doesn't stop you from piecing together an opinion on every prospect in the history of the world, does it?

To say Morris wouldn't make the top 100 of the 2002 draft may be a stretch, because he may fall in there around #60 or 70. But to say he's definitaly not a 1st round is a no-brainer. My thinking is that he's almost 22 years old and has just started to play at a relatively high level of hockey. And San Jose's HF.com rankings don't really help his cause either. The guy's ranked as the 10th best prospect in the organization.

As for the top 100 players thing, just by going over the list of picks that year here are guys (right now) that I'd take ahead of Mike Morris:

Nash
Lehtonen
Bouwmeester
Pitkanen
Whitney
Upshall
Lupul
Bouchard
Taticek
Nystrom
Ballard
Eminger
Semin
Higgins
Niinimaki
Klepis
Gordon
Grebeshkov
Koreis
Paille
Babchuk
Bergenheim
Eager
Steen
Ward
Johansson
Toivonen
Slater
Deslauriers
Stephan
Nemec
Stoll
Brent
Harding
Globke
Lindstrom
Holtet
Daley
Greene
LeNeveu
Kaygorodov
Shkotov
Koltsov
Anshakov
Keith
Evseev
Stajan
Hudler
Daigneault
Boychuck
Fleischmann
Kanko
Campbell
Skinner
Jonasen
D'Amour
Lombardi
Filppula
Lambert
Segal
Fernholm
Wisniewski
Foy
Pietrasiak
Bartschi
Ferland
Meech
Talbot
Prucha
Immonen
Reid

So there are 71 guys that I'd take ahead of Morris. Remember, draft position means absolutely nothing. There are guys like Prucha, Talbot, and Reid that have come on after their draft years. Prucha producing at a much higher level than the NCAA, Talbot being a heart and soul player while tearing up the QMJHL, and Reid who had great numbers in the WHL. I saw Reid a few times last season on TV and he's the closest thing to Michael Ryder I've seen.

Not sure how many of those guys you can make a case for not being ahead of Morris after 2 years, but it's definitely no more than maybe 15.
You could make a case for plenty of them. This is a start, and I am sure plenty of others could be listed also.

Keith
Bartschi
Meech
D'Amour
Petrasiuk
Ferland
Talbot
Johansson
Evseyev
Fernholm

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10-24-2004, 02:45 AM
  #40
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1. Columbus - Rick Nash
2. Atlanta - Kari Lehtonen
3. Florida - Jay Bouwmeester
4. Philadelphia - Joni Pitkanen
5. Pittsburgh - Joffrey Lupul
6. Nashville - Alexander Semin
7. Anaheim - Ryan Whitney
8. Minnesota - Scottie Upshall
9. Florida - Jiri Hudler
10. Calgary - Anton Babchuk
11. Buffalo - Denis Grebeshkov
12. Washington - Alexander Steen
13. Washington - Keith Ballard
14. Montreal - P.M Bouchard
15. Edmonton - Matt Stajan
16. Ottawa - Chris Higgins
17. Washington - Hanu Toivonen
18. Los Angeles - Jeff Delauriers
19. Phoenix - Cam Ward
20. Buffalo - Boyd Gordon
21. Chicago - Dan Paille
22. NY Islanders - Steve Eminger
23. Phoenix - Kirill Koltsov
24. Toronto - Trevor Daly
25. Carolina - David Leneveu
26. Dallas - Matthew Lombardi
27. San Jose - Petr Taticek
28. Colorado - Mike Morris
29. Boston - Josh Hardings
30. Atlanta - Jonas Johannson

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10-24-2004, 04:48 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Hockey
I guess you have never seen Ryan Whitney play.
what, in college, i guess you've never seen semin or lupul play in THE NHL... really, whitney may be a great prospect (which he is), but things like this (i guess you've never seen him play) are really getting overdone...

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10-24-2004, 06:36 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers
Nobody even listed Jarkko Immonen as top 30 from 2002? I'd say he should be somewhere on peoples lists there.

Maybe I'm overrating him but I'd see him around number 15. The finnish league is a good league and hes leading it in points and was 3rd last year.
He's 2 years older than the average pick from that draft.

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10-24-2004, 10:38 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Hero of Tragedy
Knowing the Sharks needs and tendencies, the only guy I would take would be Jim Slater (but he was the guy I wanted after the Leafs took Steen anyways). Not to say that Morris is better (or worse) than any of those players but the Sharks scouting staff likes what Morris has to offer.

Out of that list LeNeveu, Globke, and Slater are all high on my list and would be alternatives.
If LeNeveu would be high, where would Toivonen be? Clearly one of the best goalie prospects(obviously behind Fluery and Lehtonen though)

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10-24-2004, 11:24 AM
  #44
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1. Columbus - Rick Nash (LW)
2. Atlanta - Kari Lehtonen (G)
3. Florida - Jay Bouwmeester (D)
4. Philadelphia - Joni Pitkänen (D)
5. Pittsburgh - Joffrey Lupul (RW)
6. Nashville - Matthew Stajan (C)
7. Anaheim - Alexander Semin (LW)
8. Minnesota - Denis Grebeshkov (D)
9. Florida - Ryan Whitney (D)
10. Calgary - Chris Higgins (C/LW)
11. Buffalo - Alexander Steen (C)
12. Washington - Trevor Daley (D)
13. Washington - Steve Eminger (D)
14. Mtl. Canadiens - Keith Ballard (D)
15. Edmonton - Jiri Hudler (RW)
16. Ottawa - Pierre-Marc Bouchard (LW)
17. Washington - Scott Upshall (LW/RW)
18. Los Angeles - Anton Babchuk (D)
19. Phoenix - Jarett Stoll (C)
20. Buffalo - Daniel Paille (C)
21. Chicago - Maxime Talbot (C)
22. NY Islanders - Matthew Lombardi (C)
23. Phoenix - Cam Ward (G)
24. Toronto - Tim Brent (C)
25. Carolina - David LeNeveu (G)
26. Dallas - Kirill Koltsov (D)
27. San Jose - Sean Bergenheim (LW)
28. Colorado - Boyd Gordon (RW)
29. Boston - Hannu Toivonen (G)
30. Atlanta - Matt Foy (LW)


Last edited by didjuicythat: 10-24-2004 at 11:31 AM.
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10-24-2004, 12:58 PM
  #45
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Nashville intentionally didn't select Lupul, and never intended to. However, they got a third round pick from Anaheim NOT to select him...which Poile later revealed they wanted Upshall all along...and I think if the draft were re-done...they'd still take him. Especially over some of the guys that they're being shown to take here.

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10-24-2004, 02:51 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Mister Hockey
I guess you have never seen Ryan Whitney play.
No one has seen him play in the NHL, Semin and Lupul have been there.

Is it just me or has it been a very long time since the US college system has put out a really good defencemen.

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10-24-2004, 03:03 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Is it just me or has it been a very long time since the US college system has put out a really good defencemen.
Jordan Leopold, Paul Martin, J.M. Liles... just within the past few years.

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10-24-2004, 04:54 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
No one has seen him play in the NHL, Semin and Lupul have been there.

Is it just me or has it been a very long time since the US college system has put out a really good defencemen.
It's just you

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Old
10-24-2004, 05:23 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
Jordan Leopold, Paul Martin, J.M. Liles... just within the past few years.
That Ryan Suter guy aint half bad either.

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10-24-2004, 05:53 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero of Tragedy
That Ryan Suter guy aint half bad either.
Neither is Ryan Whitney, Keith Ballard, etc. etc... but I only mentioned guys that have already played in the NHL.

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