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Old
02-06-2012, 07:14 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vBurmi View Post
Unless his production goes off a cliff in the remaining games, he'll probably finish with 30 goals. 30 goal scorers get paid $4M a year minimum and teams pay for potential.

I'm afraid those saying $2.5M are being overly hopeful.
im going to agree with you on this one...i just don't see how you can pay Kane the same as Wheeler

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02-06-2012, 07:20 PM
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I don't believe all that stuff has said about him. I think he knows that he has good thing. In a year or so as his scoring goes up and really becomes the franchise player that we all know it is...he'll be like a god among men in Winnipeg. It'll be his chance to be "the guy" and that won't happen anywhere else.

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02-06-2012, 07:41 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vBurmi View Post
Unless his production goes off a cliff in the remaining games, he'll probably finish with 30 goals. 30 goal scorers get paid $4M a year minimum and teams pay for potential.

I'm afraid those saying $2.5M are being overly hopeful.
His current projections are:

Quote:
74 GP 28 G 20 A 48 PTS
Personally, I don't think he'll finish with 30 goals this year just because it will probably take him a couple games to get back into things but it is possible.

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02-06-2012, 07:42 PM
  #29
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Kane is the definition of a one dimensional player, but unfortunately it's not a dimension that anyone else on this team has.

He'll get a decent offer.

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02-06-2012, 09:05 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Agree with you 100%

There's no way that there would be no evidence out there - the world is WAY too small and connected today, and someone would LOVE to have "the scoop".
you could look at it the other way....because winnipeg is so small and so connected every minor incident spreads like wildfire....in a bigger city he would fly under the radar.

consider the possible scenarios:

he walks out on a restaurant tab and what happens?....the server gets mad and tells his friends....the restaurant owner does nothing because he doesnt want negative publicity and doesnt want hockey players to stop coming to his place.

he gets injured during an incident at a night club....a handful of people see it, they tell all their friends.....a bouncer escorts him out and tells all his friends....the police doing their rounds are notified of the incident but the owner is keen to sweep it under the rug....but they still tell all their friends.

in both of these incidents rumours spread but there is no official 'proof'....

if you are lucky enough to be or know people connected to these incidents then it makes it easy....if not, you are left to make the decision based on circumstantial evidence.....do you think that for some reason people in a hockey crazed city have decided to gang up on their team's best player and make up negative stories about him?......or do you believe that there must be something causing the rumours..

do you believe that he somehow sustained a concussion in an unexplained incident, played 20+ minutes the night before and every night before that, and suddenly on a non game day came down with concussion symptoms so severe that he is missing weeks of play?

...or might there be some credence to the rumours?.....maybe the rumours are the evidence you are looking for.

we learned last year that the media is way behind the reality when it is in people's best interest for information to not get out.....where does the information come from for the free press to get their 'scoop'?.....true north who dont want their player's reputation harmed?.....the 19 year old at the bar with no credibility?...the bouncer who would lose his job?....the restaurant owner who would lose business?


personally, i would sign him for $6m for 2 years and then trade him for a player of better character and with greater dimension to his game...


Last edited by peter sullivan: 02-06-2012 at 09:21 PM.
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02-06-2012, 09:13 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
you could look at it the other way....because winnipeg is so small and so connected the things he does spread like wildfire even without media coverage....in a bigger city he would fly under the radar.
In no way is Winnipeg any different from the other six Canadian NHL cities in terms of being under the microscope and "small world" mentality, since this would make front page news. We live in hockey cities in a hockey country. Big or small market, you are going to get the same amount of media coverage up here. In cities like Phoenix or Atlanta, where hockey gets next to no coverage at all, these kinds of rumors regarding hockey players could easily go unoticed by the general public.

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02-06-2012, 09:19 PM
  #32
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In a world where everyone has a cell phone available to them at all times, which can take pictures and videos, why isn't there any of these from these incidents? If Kane was being such a big disturbance in these alleged incidents, someone would've recognized him and snapped a photo or recorded a clip, yet there's nothing. The only thing we have is a bunch of people with not so virtuous intentions spreading slander about a hockey player.

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02-06-2012, 09:26 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
In no way is Winnipeg any different from the other six Canadian NHL cities in terms of being under the microscope and "small world" mentality, since this would make front page news. We live in hockey cities in a hockey country. Big or small market, you are going to get the same amount of media coverage up here. In cities like Phoenix or Atlanta, where hockey gets next to no coverage at all, these kinds of rumors regarding hockey players could easily go unoticed by the general public.
i agree...and these kinds of things do happen in other canadian cities.

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02-06-2012, 09:27 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
I understand that when discussing a player, his attitude, community involvement, and desire to stay in the city/ with the org. is paramount to contract discussions.

Please do not fuel unsubstantiated Twitter garbage here, or what you heard from your sister's bf's brother's gynecologist's bartender.

You can talk about the rumours in the most general sense. Let's not fuel this ridiculous high school like gossip going on in cyberspace here.

When you wonder to yourself why the world needs reputable news sources instead of just blogs/ Twitter, the Kane fiasco should be evidence enough.

Personally, I hope Kane can stay dark on social media, and just focus on being a better hockey player and teammate. If he can do that, I could see something like 5 years 20MM.

If he doesn't grow up somewhat then I would try to swap him for a young sniper.
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
The 2 year prove your worth contract is a very conservative approach, and definitely has a place in team planning, but it has some major draw backs if it is utilized all the time. With the Cap teams need be willimg to role the dice on some of their young players and lock them up long term. If you sign all your young players to short term contracts, you run the risk of all of them improving and being able to demand a lot of money on their third contract (i.e. have to buy more ufa years, they are eligable for arbitration) See Nashville with regards to their predicament with Weber and Suter. If we sign Kane to a short term contract we will have all of Kane, Wheeler and Bogo up for new contracts within a year of each other and its looking like Bogosian amd Wheeler will be in for sizable raises if they keep developing as they have this year.

Kane has improved every year and I feel he would be a good bet to live up to a long term contract.
Thanks boys two nice posts

Quick question......if Kane is someone we would shop Or consider offers on at some point what would be better this summer, a two year deal or a richer four or five year deal knowing he is RFA for 4 seasons? This is not a rhetorical question I am being sincere and am curious about opinions? Would another team prefer to have empty RFA term to work with to carve a new deal or not?

Surixon I like your post and don't disagree but my issue with Kane is I have watched him close this year and I believe his current style is not conducive to 82 game seasons. I have seen him take two maybe three falls or heavy crashes into the boards or net that looked like they could have been season ending. He has a concussion right now and with his physical style there is no reason to believe it will be his last. I hear what you are saying about not having too many players on short term deals but I would personally rather keep Kane on 2 for now and watch him grow. I would sooner get long term extensions with Wheeler and Bogo and come back at Evander in two years when a couple of key issues (in my mind) have been answered those being durability due to playing style and maturity.

I am not a fan of Buffs long term deal but do not have an issue with Ladd's deal due to the two players drive and commitment level off the ice respectfully. I would not have an issue going long term with Wheeler or Bogo due to their character, talent, leadership, cultural fit, and compete levels but would not want to go there yet with Kane for the two reasons I mentioned. make no mistake I do want to maximize Evander's value to our organization.

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02-06-2012, 09:28 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
you could look at it the other way....because winnipeg is so small and so connected every incident spreads like wildfire....in a bigger city he would fly under the radar.

consider the possible scenarios:

he walks out on a restaurant tab and what happens?....the server gets mad and tells his friends....the restaurant owner does nothing because he doesnt want negative publicity and doesnt want hockey players to stop coming to his place.

he gets injured during an incident at a night club....a handful of people see it, they tell all their friends.....a bouncer escorts him out and tells all his friends....the police doing their rounds are notified of the incident but the owner is keen to sweep it under the rug....but they still tell all their friends.

in both of these incidents rumours spread but there is no official 'proof'....

if you are not or you do not know someone connected to these incidents then you cant know for sure and you are left to make the decision based on circumstantial evidence.....do you think that for some reason people in a hockey crazed city have decided gang up on their team's best player and make up negative stories about him?......or do you believe that there must be something causing the rumours....why always him?

do you believe that he somehow sustained a concussion in an unexplained incident, played 20+ minutes the night before and every night before that, and suddenly came down with the symptoms on a non game day?

...or might there be some credence to the rumours?...maybe the rumours are the evidence you are looking for.

we learned last year that the media is way behind the reality when it is in people's best interest for information to not get out.....where does the information come from for the free press to get their 'scoop'?.....the 19 year old at the bar?...the bouncer who would lose his job?....the restaurant owner who would lose business?


personally, i would sign him for $6m for 2 years and then trade him for a player of better character and with greater dimension to his game...he is skilled, but i think the team can be improved with someone with a more rounded skill set.
Don't agree much of anything here. First of all, how is that YOU know that the symptoms were reported on a non-game day. Using your very own logic, the people on the Jets medical staff should not be spreading rumours since that would cost them their own job, so unless you are on the medical staff you have no idea when these symptoms started.

Consider this. Young kid shows up in town, starts going out, having a good time. As the centre of attention, he starts getting a little bit a reputation as a cocky kid. Nothing serious, but all of the sudden everybody wants to jump in on this. So one guy tells his buddy about how he met Kane. The next talks about how cocky Kane is. All of the sudden they both want the next scoop. They could have saw Kane across the way at the bar, talking real close to somebody, all of the sudden that becomes an argument(in their minds), then it becomes a fight(in their minds), then combined with the concussion, well he must have gotten into a fight that caused the concussion(IN THEIR MINDS). This is easily as likely as your scenario, yet in this case nothing happened.

It was proven that this whole "restaurant bill" started when a fan brought a sign to a game...in OTTAWA! Explain me how that fan knows that. Then it gained legs later when ONE IDIOT who got ******** since Kane called him out for making up rumours on twitter MADE UP A SIGN. Not someone who runs or works in a restaurant, just a random jackass.

I rather not base my opinions based on idiot fans in bars/on twitter, I'll stick with facts, thank you VERY MUCH.

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02-06-2012, 09:34 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by atl thrasher344 View Post
In a world where everyone has a cell phone available to them at all times, which can take pictures and videos, why isn't there any of these from these incidents? If Kane was being such a big disturbance in these alleged incidents, someone would've recognized him and snapped a photo or recorded a clip, yet there's nothing. The only thing we have is a bunch of people with not so virtuous intentions spreading slander about a hockey player.
how do you video a stiffed restaurant tab?

as for the alleged bar incident...it is quite likely that it would not have happened in the middle of the packed bar....he would likely be in a more secluded area than the main floor.

just guessing....

it is disappointing that these things have become an issue, but i wouldn't be so quick to chastise the people of winnipeg for their indiscretion....kane is a professional and should conduct himself in a way that these types of things can not start....

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02-06-2012, 09:37 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
do you believe that he somehow sustained a concussion in an unexplained incident, played 20+ minutes the night before and every night before that, and suddenly on a non game day came down with concussion symptoms so severe that he is missing weeks of play?
I don't care to comment on the rest of the stuff, but as this is one of the most frequent sources of suspicion about the concussion, I'd just like to point out for current and future reference that this isn't implausible, since concussion symptoms can be subtle and manifest in different ways, and players may write them off as something else.

One quick example: Brayden Schenn got hit in the nose v. Phoenix in December, felt fine after and played out the game. Came in two days later on saying he didn't feel like himself. Turns out he had a concussion and was out for three weeks.

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02-06-2012, 09:40 PM
  #38
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Don't agree much of anything here. First of all, how is that YOU know that the symptoms were reported on a non-game day.
That was confirmed. In the interview after the Florida SO loss, Coach Noel was very clear that Kane came to them the Friday morning (Jan. 20) after the Buffalo game saying he didn't feel well. They had Cormier on a plane to Winnipeg that afternoon CST.

Doesn't mean anything about the rumours, of course, but might as well be clear about what we're discussing.

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02-06-2012, 09:45 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Don't agree much of anything here. First of all, how is that YOU know that the symptoms were reported on a non-game day. Using your very own logic, the people on the Jets medical staff should not be spreading rumours since that would cost them their own job, so unless you are on the medical staff you have no idea when these symptoms started.

Consider this. Young kid shows up in town, starts going out, having a good time. As the centre of attention, he starts getting a little bit a reputation as a cocky kid. Nothing serious, but all of the sudden everybody wants to jump in on this. So one guy tells his buddy about how he met Kane. The next talks about how cocky Kane is. All of the sudden they both want the next scoop. They could have saw Kane across the way at the bar, talking real close to somebody, all of the sudden that becomes an argument(in their minds), then it becomes a fight(in their minds), then combined with the concussion, well he must have gotten into a fight that caused the concussion(IN THEIR MINDS). This is easily as likely as your scenario, yet in this case nothing happened.

It was proven that this whole "restaurant bill" started when a fan brought a sign to a game...in OTTAWA! Explain me how that fan knows that. Then it gained legs later when ONE IDIOT who got ******** since Kane called him out for making up rumours on twitter MADE UP A SIGN. Not someone who runs or works in a restaurant, just a random jackass.

I rather not base my opinions based on idiot fans in bars/on twitter, I'll stick with facts, thank you VERY MUCH.
absolutely, i agree...totally probable.

....but that doesnt mean my scenario is not just as likely.

i dont know when he came down with concussion symptoms...i am saying that some may draw conclusions from the fact that he played 20+ minutes the day before, just like every game before that....and, there was no specfic incident identified by the team......pretty rare in these situations....they are even claiming that he may have gotten it weeks before.....you can see why some may find that unusual....if he was not feeling well, you might think that it would have affected his playing time somewhere along the line.

the restaurant thing came out long before the twitter sign in ottawa....that was the end of the story not the beginning.

anyways....without sources that you trust all you can do is decide for yourself....

i totally understand why people would come to either conclusion....and the fact remains that he shouldnt be putting himself in these situations....the $200 twittering restaurants is an example.....he should be smart enough to steer clear of all of that.

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02-06-2012, 09:45 PM
  #40
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how do you video a stiffed restaurant tab?
Kane allegedly threw a hissy fit at the waiter before just refusing to pay the bill. Now how could someone know that, but at the same time not be in a position to record it?

If everyday people are videotaped freaking out over a incorrect Big Mac order at McDonalds, then how can a very-well known person do worse with the absolute minimal number of people noticing?

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02-06-2012, 09:53 PM
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One quick example: Brayden Schenn got hit in the nose v. Phoenix in December, felt fine after and played out the game. Came in two days later on saying he didn't feel like himself. Turns out he had a concussion and was out for three weeks.
agreed, he didnt know at the time, but he did have an incident that he could identify.....where was kane's incident?.....i can understand why that causes doubt for some people.


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02-06-2012, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by atl thrasher344 View Post
Kane allegedly threw a hissy fit at the waiter before just refusing to pay the bill. Now how could someone know that, but at the same time not be in a position to record it?

If everyday people are videotaped freaking out over a incorrect Big Mac order at McDonalds, then how can a very-well known person do worse with the absolute minimal number of people noticing?
no question that rumours take on a life of their own.....things like throwing water in a fit getting added on for dramatic effect.

it is more likely that he believes that he is doing the restaurant a service by being there so he feels that he doesnt have to pay.....if it is true, i doubt he would make a flamboyant incident about it....

just a guess.

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02-06-2012, 10:03 PM
  #43
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I understand that when discussing a player, his attitude, community involvement, and desire to stay in the city/ with the org. is paramount to contract discussions.

Please do not fuel unsubstantiated Twitter garbage here, or what you heard from your sister's bf's brother's gynecologist's bartender.

You can talk about the rumours in the most general sense. Let's not fuel this ridiculous high school like gossip going on in cyberspace here.

When you wonder to yourself why the world needs reputable news sources instead of just blogs/ Twitter, the Kane fiasco should be evidence enough.

Personally, I hope Kane can stay dark on social media, and just focus on being a better hockey player and teammate. If he can do that, I could see something like 5 years 20MM.

If he doesn't grow up somewhat then I would try to swap him for a young sniper.

i totally agree with this post.....we have to get as much out of owning evander's rights as possible....hopefully that means him staying out of the spotlight, becoming a team leader and earning the Jets #9...if not we should sign him to a short term deal to keep him in RFA status and look to maximize his trade potential.

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02-06-2012, 10:05 PM
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agreed, he didnt know at the time, but he did have an incident that he could identify.....where was kane's incident?.....you can understand why that causes doubt for some people.
I can understand why, but I think it's largely because people have a specific perception of how concussions are caused. Even seemingly innocuous hits can cause concussions if conditions are just right, and Kane always takes some grief along the boards. They can guess, but if they're not 100% certain about their guess, why would they bother making it public?

As a side-note, if hypothetically Kane was injured in a bar fight, I'm curious why that seems to fuel negative opinions against him, since it would basically mean he was a victim of a criminal assault.

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02-06-2012, 10:09 PM
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peter is on point great posts

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02-06-2012, 10:10 PM
  #46
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I can understand why, but I think it's largely because people have a specific perception of how concussions are caused. Even seemingly innocuous hits can cause concussions if conditions are just right, and Kane always takes some grief along the boards. They can guess, but if they're not 100% certain about their guess, why would they bother making it public?

As a side-note, if hypothetically Kane was injured in a bar fight, I'm curious why that seems to fuel negative opinions against him, since it would basically mean he was a victim of a criminal assault.
are there any other players with concussions that dont know when they got them, i wonder?...would be interesting to know.

why do you assume that he was the victim and not the antagonist?...

if he was attacked, i can understand your point, but most scuffles at a bar that i have seen have been two way affairs....either way you can understand why it is in his best interest to not be public about it.

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02-06-2012, 10:28 PM
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I have a feeling he will be shopped and moved in the offseason. Just a hunch.......

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02-07-2012, 03:10 AM
  #48
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you could look at it the other way....because winnipeg is so small and so connected every minor incident spreads like wildfire....in a bigger city he would fly under the radar.

consider the possible scenarios:

(...)
All conjecture, rumours, and heresay.

Show me proof. No proof? They're rumours then.

Fly under the radar in a bigger city? Try pulling the stuff you're talking about in Toronto, and see how long you fly under the radar - the media is ready to pounce at a moments notice. In Canada, I don't think it makes much of a difference what city you're in.


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02-07-2012, 03:14 AM
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(...)

just guessing....
Exactly.

Quote:
it is disappointing that these things have become an issue, but i wouldn't be so quick to chastise the people of winnipeg for their indiscretion....kane is a professional and should conduct himself in a way that these types of things can not start....
It's not the indiscretions of "Winnipeg", it's those that have a bone to pick with Kane - a VERY much smaller subset.

IMHO: he could be a saint, and these things may still start. When someone has an agenda, it doesn't require any proof.


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02-07-2012, 03:19 AM
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are there any other players with concussions that dont know when they got them, i wonder?...would be interesting to know.
Pronger. He played right through the concusssion - thought it was a flu. There were 2 or 3 incidents that could have caused his concussion - I think they "feel" it was due to the stick in the face, but aren't 100% sure.

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