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Old
02-03-2012, 03:55 PM
  #1
Jtown
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Trade Matt Carle

I like matt carle alot. I think he is pretty underrated on hfboards, and he has a knack for making great passes on the PP.

However I see the Flyers going after Suter this offseason. I imagine the Salary he would command would be around 7 mill. If that is the case, we won't have enough money to sign carle. Instead of Losing carle this offseason for nothing, why not get something of value for him this trade deadline.

pros: Getting some value for Carle before he leaves. Value could be substantial.

Cons: pretty much gives us no chance this year, especially with the big minutes he has been eating up.

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02-03-2012, 04:34 PM
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WeekendAtBernies
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So let me get this straight you are suggesting to trade Carle as a rental, getting a late first or early second for him and you plan on replacing him with Suter in the offseason.

Ok, now what happens when or if Suter re-signs with Nashville because they make a trade deadline acquisition and go deep in the playoffs. Or what happens if Detroit or any one of ten other teams that could use Suter and have more cap room makes a better offer than us.

When you go into the offseason relying on the fact that you are going to get a single player that might not even make it to free agency, it usually does not work out well.

Look at the Flyers with Bryzgalov. We tipped our hand early as to what we were going to do and we paid for it in years and cap hit. If you trade Carle, Suter becomes almost a necessity this offseason and that is very, very dangerous.

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02-03-2012, 04:40 PM
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WeekendAtBernies
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Wouldn't this be a better strategy?

-Sign Matt Carle to a Braydon Coburn type of deal.
-Trade picks for Suter's rights
-If or when it becomes apparent that Ryan Suter would be willing to sign here for a cap hit that the team can make work, trade Carle, Coburn, or Meszaros (whichever one you like the least) for a kings ransom.

If you look at the current list of defensive free agents after Suter and Carle, it is not so pretty. There are going to be several teams this offseason that are going to be have a large need defensively with nobody to fill it after the top free agents sign. We could get a large package involving picks or prospects for a Braydon Coburn locked up for 4 years at 4.5 million or for a Meszaros locked up for 2 years at 4 million.

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02-03-2012, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwaybro86 View Post
Wouldn't this be a better strategy?

-Sign Matt Carle to a Braydon Coburn type of deal.
-Trade picks for Suter's rights
-If or when it becomes apparent that Ryan Suter would be willing to sign here for a cap hit that the team can make work, trade Carle, Coburn, or Meszaros (whichever one you like the least) for a kings ransom.

If you look at the current list of defensive free agents after Suter and Carle, it is not so pretty. There are going to be several teams this offseason that are going to be have a large need defensively with nobody to fill it after the top free agents sign. We could get a large package involving picks or prospects for a Braydon Coburn locked up for 4 years at 4.5 million or for a Meszaros locked up for 2 years at 4 million.
no sale..

what if we resign Carle (at coburns price), then cant find a trade to get rid of him..

now we are stuck with his cap hit/roster slot for a guy we dont really want..

i wouldnt hedge my bets on acquiring Carle unless we wanted to play him.

signing someone just on the hopes someone else will trade for him is even riskier..

no thx.

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02-03-2012, 05:00 PM
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The teams that are willing to trade for a UFA like Matt Carle are the teams that are making a run at the Stanley Cup. Newsflash, we are one of those teams. If anything, we will be giving up picks and prospects to get another d-man, not giving one up for futures. That is what teams on the outside do.

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02-03-2012, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I like matt carle alot. I think he is pretty underrated on hfboards, and he has a knack for making great passes on the PP.

However I see the Flyers going after Suter this offseason. I imagine the Salary he would command would be around 7 mill. If that is the case, we won't have enough money to sign carle. Instead of Losing carle this offseason for nothing, why not get something of value for him this trade deadline.

pros: Getting some value for Carle before he leaves. Value could be substantial.

Cons: pretty much gives us no chance this year, especially with the big minutes he has been eating up.
There's the problem. There is no reason to throw away this season because of the "future."

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02-03-2012, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
The teams that are willing to trade for a UFA like Matt Carle are the teams that are making a run at the Stanley Cup. Newsflash, we are one of those teams. If anything, we will be giving up picks and prospects to get another d-man, not giving one up for futures. That is what teams on the outside do.
Yea...I don't think we are quite there...too many young guys. We could certainly get hot though.

If the right deal came along for Carle...I'd jump on it.

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02-03-2012, 05:18 PM
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The flyers can't afford to give up a d-man right now. They need to add one not trade one away.

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02-03-2012, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
no sale..

what if we resign Carle (at coburns price), then cant find a trade to get rid of him..

now we are stuck with his cap hit/roster slot for a guy we dont really want..

i wouldnt hedge my bets on acquiring Carle unless we wanted to play him.

signing someone just on the hopes someone else will trade for him is even riskier..

no thx.
I understand that you have an irrational hatred of Carle and think he is a dime a dozen, but the reality is he is one of the best 75 defensemen in the NHL. Which means, he is not easily replaceable.

There is one clear-cut better defenseman better than Carle currently slated to become a free agent and that is Suter.

After that, it is a fight for second and third between Carle and Wideman.

And then another drop off to fourth and beyond.

At a 4.5 million cap hit, Carle is easily tradeable. In fact, that is well under the value I would think he could get as a free agent given what other free agents have gotten in recent years.

Matt Carle is not an easily replaceable player and would be easily tradeable at a cap hit of 4.5 million. Not signing him is stupid. Attempting to trade him this season is even more stupid.

There needs to be some type of insurance policy in case Suter does not want to go along with your amazing plan to have him land in Philadelphia.

I just do not see what trading him as a pending UFA does for us. We will not get as good value as if he were signed long-term, we will be giving up on this season, and we are done if Suter does not sign here.

Why would we do that when we could just sign him long term and then figure out what we want to do after Suter's intentions are known? Especially if we would get better value at that point, and I think we would.

Plus, I know that you dislike Carle and all, but at 4.5 million, he is a lot better deal than Meszaros is at 4 million.

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02-03-2012, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I like matt carle alot. I think he is pretty underrated on hfboards, and he has a knack for making great passes on the PP.

However I see the Flyers going after Suter this offseason. I imagine the Salary he would command would be around 7 mill. If that is the case, we won't have enough money to sign carle. Instead of Losing carle this offseason for nothing, why not get something of value for him this trade deadline.

pros: Getting some value for Carle before he leaves. Value could be substantial.

Cons: pretty much gives us no chance this year, especially with the big minutes he has been eating up.
Will Ryan Suter ever be worth his contract? All Suter Discussion Here. Part Four


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02-03-2012, 05:56 PM
  #11
DenverBoone
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Originally Posted by broadwaybro86 View Post
I understand that you have an irrational hatred of Carle and think he is a dime a dozen, but the reality is he is one of the best 75 defensemen in the NHL. Which means, he is not easily replaceable.

There is one clear-cut better defenseman better than Carle currently slated to become a free agent and that is Suter.

After that, it is a fight for second and third between Carle and Wideman.

And then another drop off to fourth and beyond.

At a 4.5 million cap hit, Carle is easily tradeable. In fact, that is well under the value I would think he could get as a free agent given what other free agents have gotten in recent years.

Matt Carle is not an easily replaceable player and would be easily tradeable at a cap hit of 4.5 million. Not signing him is stupid. Attempting to trade him this season is even more stupid.

There needs to be some type of insurance policy in case Suter does not want to go along with your amazing plan to have him land in Philadelphia.

I just do not see what trading him as a pending UFA does for us. We will not get as good value as if he were signed long-term, we will be giving up on this season, and we are done if Suter does not sign here.

Why would we do that when we could just sign him long term and then figure out what we want to do after Suter's intentions are known? Especially if we would get better value at that point, and I think we would.

Plus, I know that you dislike Carle and all, but at 4.5 million, he is a lot better deal than Meszaros is at 4 million.
I applaud this post. Not only because I'm a fan of Carle, but because it makes sense.

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02-03-2012, 06:02 PM
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Damaged Goods
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I don't see why Carle would sign for $4.5 M. He can point to the James Wisniewski contract and get at least as much on the market. At that price, he doesn't fit into the Flyers plans because it would be prohibitive of finding a Pronger replacement.

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02-03-2012, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
no sale..

what if we resign Carle (at coburns price), then cant find a trade to get rid of him..

now we are stuck with his cap hit/roster slot for a guy we dont really want..

i wouldnt hedge my bets on acquiring Carle unless we wanted to play him.

signing someone just on the hopes someone else will trade for him is even riskier..

no thx.
At Coburns price? That would be a steal. Outside of Kimmo Carle is easily our best D. If we get Suter and that is a big if we should then look to sign Carle to I am hoping around 5 a year and look to trade either Mez or Coburn instead.

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02-03-2012, 06:32 PM
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Jtown
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I do think Trading Carle is silly right now, but I also dont see him coming back. The flyers would have locked him up by now if they wanted him. I think we are going to wait to see if we can get suter this offseason and then if we cant offer carle a contract. If that happens I could see carle walking.

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02-04-2012, 04:35 PM
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The only cog in any plan is Pronger's health. If he doesn't come back at all or at least not right away we need Carle because we'll be in the same position we are now but worse without him unless we sign a UFA or make a trade. If Pronger comes back healthy then Carle becomes a player we trade or let sign elsewhere. At this time I can't see trading him before the deadline unless we're practically out of the hunt for the playoffs or he won't resign unless he gets overpaid or we get a return that continues team progress/playoff chances.

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02-04-2012, 05:44 PM
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2minutes4slashing
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Matt Carle is brutal , period, no other way around it.

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02-04-2012, 05:59 PM
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Bort Sampson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
At Coburns price? That would be a steal. Outside of Kimmo Carle is easily our best D. If we get Suter and that is a big if we should then look to sign Carle to I am hoping around 5 a year and look to trade either Mez or Coburn instead.
You realize "D" is short for defenseman, right?

Carle is a decent player. He's a below average defenseman. His skating makes up for his poor defensive play, because he's able to correct his mistakes in positioning. Rarely does he make the correct play on defense. Rarely does he use his body in a defensive role. When the playoffs roll around, he's the most exploited of all of our defensemen, because others teams realize that he's on the ice for a huge amount of time, and he's extremely soft in his own end. Were you asleep during the Buffalo series last year? What about against Boston? Carle was the worst defenseman for the Flyers in the playoffs last year.

Any team that pays over 4 million for Carle, expecting him to be a top-pairing guy, or even an anchor of a pairing, will be in a tough predicament.

Matt Carle is excellent at passing the puck to players that can finish. He's not easily replaceable, but he's replaceable. I personally hope he signs within the division, with the Flyers' intent being to basically dump the puck to his side of the ice every shift and play physically against him.

The biggest problem with Carle is that teams have wised up to his weak defensive play. It will only get worse in the future, especially with people talking about giving him more responsibilities.

With that said, trading any defensemen before the Flyers are sure about Pronger (either way) is illogical. Carle should be offered a 2-year, 4.2 million dollar deal. That should be the initial negotiation number. We're talking about giving 4.5 to a player who set his career-high in points playing 77 games his rookie year. He hasn't hit that career-high, despite playing more games, being given a huge amount of ice time, on an offensive team, with 5 seasons of development. Giving that much money to a stagnant player is an extremely risky move.

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02-04-2012, 07:07 PM
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DenverBoone
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Originally Posted by 2minutes4slashing View Post
Matt Carle is brutal , period, no other way around it.
Carle has been solid all year and has LED a pairing with MAB, something nobody thought he could do without Pronger. Take today for instance, +2, 2 primary assists and played 24 minutes, which is 4 minutes more than Kimmo. people around the league see what Carle is doing this year, and his UFA value is SKYROCKETING right now.

Peace.


Last edited by SnS: 02-04-2012 at 07:10 PM. Reason: Flaming.
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02-04-2012, 07:15 PM
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Carle has been solid all year and has LED a pairing with MAB, something nobody thought he could do without Pronger. Take today for instance, +2, 2 primary assists and played 24 minutes, which is 4 minutes more than Kimmo. people around the league see what Carle is doing this year, and his UFA value is SKYROCKETING right now.

Peace.
Thats not a good thing for whoever picks him up then. Carle is not to be relied upon. While he has been pretty fantastic recently, A good deal of his mistakes are being covered up because Bourdon has also been brutal in regards to turning over the puck.

I will grant that he does seem a heck of a lot better leading a pairing rather sitting in the backseat ( with Mez, kimmo and Coburn).

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02-04-2012, 07:28 PM
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With Pronger out of the mix (maybe for good) Matt Carle is CLEARLY the Flyers second best defensemen after Timonen. There is a reason why Carle is 1st or 2nd in ice time for this team night in and night out, and why is the one asked to carry a rookie on his pair.
Coburn abd Meszaros might be bigger, faster, and more physical but Carle is one thing neither of them are, consitent. Trading Carle makes zero sense, and if anythingHolmgren should be doing everything in his power (within reason) to bring him back on a long term deal. The Carle hate around here makes Flyers fan on HFboards look bad.

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02-04-2012, 07:31 PM
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I'm fine with moving him. This team isn't winnig this year anyway. Grab an asset and look to upgrade his slot in the offseason

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02-04-2012, 07:36 PM
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Meszaros > Carle according to GVT. It's a debate.

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02-04-2012, 10:36 PM
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Regardless of who he plays with after July 1, he's going to get a pretty big payday. Pronger's injury is a huge problem because nobody knows if/when he can return over the next 5 years. Carle appeared to be the odd man out when Coburn signed his extension but now he's in the driver's seat.

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02-04-2012, 11:13 PM
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I'm fine with moving him. This team isn't winnig this year anyway. Grab an asset and look to upgrade his slot in the offseason
That is a rather bold statement to make is it not? With all of our injuries and inconsistent goaltending, we have still shown we can play with anyone and give them a run.....Granted, if you had asked me at the beginning of the season, I too would have thought we would have been out of the mix as this is a retooling year but we certainly are one of the elites and stranger things have happened in relation to winning it all......

With that said, I would hold onto Carle for our playoff run because we are thin there as it stands...let him walk in the off season and lets hopefully get Suter which is a strong reality! Besides, I am not all that enamored with Carle anyways....

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02-05-2012, 12:59 AM
  #25
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If we can get 1st and NHL ready prospect (preferable a d-men) for him I would move him.

I do not think Flyers will move him now.

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