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"Busts" Who Can Still Make It?

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Old
10-22-2004, 11:05 PM
  #26
Superfluous U
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Back to the point, as a terribly homeristic Edmonton fan, I'd like to think that Mikhnov still has a shot at the NHL. His numbers aren't good, but he plays for the worst team in the league. Plus, no one figured out he was nearsighted until he was in Edmonton last year to meet the team, so he had been playing half blind.

Odds are he never comes over, but I still think he's got a shot.

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10-22-2004, 11:11 PM
  #27
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From the Kings standpoint, Yannick Lehoux could make it. Kings fans have been wanting so much out of him the past couple years, and hopefully if he shows some heart, he could actually compete for a spot.

Good start in the AHL so far; he had 5 goals and 1 assist in his first two games.

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Old
10-22-2004, 11:57 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
Jeff Heerema?
He seems to me like a career-AHLer. As long as he's in Vancouver's system, anyways. We simply don't have room to call him up. Our top six is set, our grind line is set, and we have about seven guys vying for the last three spots.

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10-23-2004, 12:12 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
I'm not saying he won't score 30, 40, 50 points in Pittsburgh. But he's just another Andy Delmore type player. Extremely good producer under no pressure, but when it's on (playing on a team with actual fan support and attention), he'll fold like a cheap suit.
HARSH! _elmore didn't suceed b/c he had no pressure....he suceeded because he had Kimmo Timonen setting him up for the one-timer/point shot on every PP oppurtunity. The guy has one strength in his game - his shot. He can't keep the puck in, his vision is bad, horrible defensively.......but my God, he can rifle the puck on net. I certainly hope Jackman has a bit more than that . There is a reason _elmore went from 16 goal scorer in Nashville (or however many goals he scored) to 9th round pick/waiver wire material. He simply isn't NHL material....never was to begin with.....Trotzy just found a way to utilize the kids strength to the utmost advantage.

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10-23-2004, 01:03 AM
  #30
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Smirnov, Holmqvist.

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Old
10-23-2004, 01:17 AM
  #31
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no love for Svitov eh?

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Old
10-23-2004, 01:25 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooner
He was one of the top players on a team that had the best record in all of the NHL for the last 20 games of the season.

Can only perform with 10,000 people in the stands? Did you not notice him helping the Pens win IN Toronto. Or was this one of those Leafs games where only 10,000 people showed up? The Leafs have horrible fan support, I know...
You do realize he played 1 game in Toronto and scored on Trevor Kidd, right? Stop bringing that up, because Kidd allowed 30 goals in his last 7 games, that Pittsburgh game being his second last start. That's the same as a Leafs fan saying Wade Belak scored on Norm Maracle, it's Belak's year to make a run at the Norris!

Quote:
Someone has to rack up the points for Pittsburgh? Well, Ryan Malone was doing a damn good job, as was Dick Tarnstrom, Milan Kraft, the such... but someone has to score the goals, right? I mean, when you're going 6 games undefeated oftentimes someone is scoring goals. Usually. Most the time. On rare occasions, people also get assists. This never has to do with the team playing like it's on the playoffs for the bubble, and not like it had been eliminated months ago. Never. In fact, it's impossible. Playing hard != victory.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I'm not trying to offend the Pens, because I like Koltsov, Tarnstrom, Surovy, etc... but on any team that lacks offense there will be opportunities to score goals and if you're on the ice for 90% of the PP's and 25:00+ a night, you're going to somehow rack up some points. A good example being Drake Berehowsky, he had 21 points in 47 games, that's on pace for almost 40 points on the season with the Pens... but he was Toronto's #9 or 10 defenseman.

There have been guys that have played on bad teams and have put up career numbers because of the icetime that was available. An example being Donald Audette in 2000/01. Scores 71 points in 64 games for a team consisting of Ray Ferraro, Jiri Slegr, and Steve Guolla. They finish in the bottom 3 in the league and Audette plays in 5 different cities (Dallas, Buffalo, Hamilton, Montreal, Florida) before he retires.

It's also not a coincidence that Jackman managed 8 of his 24 points on even strength, 15 on the PP, and 1 shorthanded. When you get 25:00 a night and are designated as a QB on the PP, you're going to end up with some points.

Quote:
Here's the problem we seem to have here: You remember the times when Ric was bad, I remember the time afterwards when Ric was good. One of us is partially connecting the upcoming of the Penguins to the acquisition of Ric, the other is saying it's obviously random occurence and the direct result of the inevitability that goals will be scored. Usually 3-4 at a time. Sometimes, more goals than the other team scores. Entirely at random.

But goals have to be scored, right?
Goals will be scored by a team no matter how bad that team is, there will always be opposing players that will be benched or not dressed against the Penguins, most of the time the starting goalies from the opposing team. Goals have to be scored, and players will get credit for points.

Hell, here are the goalies Ric Jackman scored points on with the Pens...

Secondary Assist - Robert Luongo (SS)
Powerplay Goal - Mikael Tellqvist
Powerplay Goal - Garth Snow
Primary Assist - Martin Prusek (PP)
Secondary Assist - Brian Boucher
Goal - Brian Boucher
Secondary Assist - Evgeny Nabokov
Powerplay Goal - Garth Snow
Secondary Assist - Garth Snow
Secondary Assist - Tomas Vokoun
Powerplay Goal - JS Giguere
Primary Assist - Jason Labarbera (PP)
Powerplay Goal - Trevor Kidd
Secondary Assist - Olaf Kolzig (PP)
Primary Assist - Olaf Kolzig
Primary Assist - Kevin Weekes (PP)
Primary Assist - Kevin Weekes (PP)
Primary Assist - Mike Dunham (PP)
Secondary Assist - Mike Dunham (PP)
Primary Assist - Jamie McLennan (PP)
Secondary Assist - Jamie McLennan (PP)
Powerplay Goal - Matt Yeats
Secondary Assist - Matt Yeats (PP)
Secondary Assist - Matt Yeats

I don't think it's awfully difficult scoring on Matt Yeats, Trevor Kidd, or Garth Snow taking shots on the PP.

I'm not trying to discredit his performance in Pittsburgh, but there's a reason he was a bust in Dallas, Boston, and Toronto. Don't expect anything more than an Andy Delmore type career from Ric Jackman. A guy that'll produce without being anything more than an average reserve player in the NHL on any team that's contending for the #8 spot in the conference.

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Old
10-23-2004, 01:32 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reilly311
no love for Svitov eh?
Because anyone with any hockey knowledge would know that its still too early to call the guy a bust.

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Old
10-23-2004, 02:19 AM
  #34
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Old
10-23-2004, 02:47 AM
  #35
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Old
10-23-2004, 02:47 AM
  #36
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Quote:
When you get 25:00 a night and are designated as a QB on the PP, you're going to end up with some points.
Even when you're spending half of that 25 minutes hemmed up in your own end? Even if you're sharing that powerplay duty with Lasse Pirjeta and Landon Wilson?

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Old
10-23-2004, 04:17 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobv2
Even when you're spending half of that 25 minutes hemmed up in your own end? Even if you're sharing that powerplay duty with Lasse Pirjeta and Landon Wilson?
Well, his numbers don't reflect that...

Ric Jackman (power play) (Ryan Malone, Tom Kostopoulos)
Ric Jackman (power play) (Dick Tarnstrom, Milan Kraft)
Aleksey Morozov (power play) (Ric Jackman, Matt Bradley)
Ric Jackman (power play) (Dick Tarnstrom, Milan Kraft)
Ric Jackman (power play) (Dick Tarnstrom, Konstantin Koltsov)
Dick Tarnstrom (power play) (Ric Jackman, Ryan Malone)
Ric Jackman (power play) (Milan Kraft, Dick Tarnstrom)
Landon Wilson (power play) (Milan Kraft, Ric Jackman)
Ryan Malone (power play) (Ric Jackman, Rico Fata)
Aleksey Morozov (power play) (Ric Jackman, Dick Tarnstrom)
Lasse Pirjeta (power play) (Ric Jackman, Aleksey Morozov)
Dick Tarnstrom (power play) (Aleksey Morozov, Ric Jackman)
Rico Fata (power play) (Ric Jackman, Aleksey Morozov)
Milan Kraft (power play) (Jon Sim, Ric Jackman)
Ric Jackman (power play) (Konstantin Koltsov)

Ryan Malone (shorthanded) (Eric Meloche, Ric Jackman)

Ric Jackman (Dick Tarnstrom, Mike Eastwood)
Ryan Malone (Tom Kostopoulos, Ric Jackman)
Milan Kraft (Matt Murley, Ric Jackman)
Ryan Malone (Aleksey Morozov, Ric Jackman)
Landon Wilson (Rico Fata, Ric Jackman)
Mike Eastwood (Ric Jackman, Kelly Buchberger)
Dick Tarnstrom (Aleksey Morozov, Ric Jackman)
Lasse Pirjeta (Aleksey Morozov, Ric Jackman)


21 of his 24 points were either scored or assisted by one of the top 4 scorers on the team (Morozov, Tarnstrom, Kraft, Malone). If Jackman was being played on the PP with just Lasse Pirjeta and Landon Wilson, Ed O. should be fired and make his way down to the ECHL or something.

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Old
10-23-2004, 06:31 AM
  #38
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Old
10-23-2004, 06:48 AM
  #39
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Old
10-23-2004, 07:35 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
Jani Rita
poor rita...

all that pressure to make it...

lol

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Old
10-23-2004, 08:52 AM
  #41
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jamie lundmark...he's got the tools if he ever just really applies himself. next NHL season is a make it or break it year for him with the rangers

as for jackman...i think it's going out on a limb to say that he's responsible for turning the penguins fortunes around at the end of the year...maybe he was part of it but strongly linking him to their success? ehhhhhhhhh, it was because the whole team played well at the end of the year, not cuz jackman came in and played decent

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Old
10-23-2004, 08:56 AM
  #42
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10-23-2004, 09:06 AM
  #43
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Chris Kelly when he was drafted had a lot of promise as a second/third liner with really good leadership abilities but has been considered a bust for a long time. Last year in Bingo he picked it up and finally put up an offensive season and became a more complete player. He could make the Senators lineup in the next few years, as a fourth/third liner.

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Old
10-23-2004, 10:08 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
Jeff Heerema?
amen

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Old
10-23-2004, 10:09 AM
  #45
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Old
10-23-2004, 11:18 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooner
He was one of the top players on a team that had the best record in all of the NHL for the last 20 games of the season.

Can only perform with 10,000 people in the stands? Did you not notice him helping the Pens win IN Toronto. Or was this one of those Leafs games where only 10,000 people showed up? The Leafs have horrible fan support, I know...

Someone has to rack up the points for Pittsburgh? Well, Ryan Malone was doing a damn good job, as was Dick Tarnstrom, Milan Kraft, the such... but someone has to score the goals, right? I mean, when you're going 6 games undefeated oftentimes someone is scoring goals. Usually. Most the time. On rare occasions, people also get assists. This never has to do with the team playing like it's on the playoffs for the bubble, and not like it had been eliminated months ago. Never. In fact, it's impossible. Playing hard != victory.


Here's the problem we seem to have here: You remember the times when Ric was bad, I remember the time afterwards when Ric was good. One of us is partially connecting the upcoming of the Penguins to the acquisition of Ric, the other is saying it's obviously random occurence and the direct result of the inevitability that goals will be scored. Usually 3-4 at a time. Sometimes, more goals than the other team scores. Entirely at random.



But goals have to be scored, right?
he was a top scorer on what team exactly, and Jackman wasn't scoring the rest of the Pens were he was just collecting the assits, you sound like Toronto is making their players ****** for a reason. If thats the case then Aki Berg drafted 5th overall or something, would probably have won the Norris if he wasnt in T.O. So here's a proposal ,,, Berg for say Malone.. I mean it looks bad now, but once he's out of Toronto we'll be the ones who got burnt in the deal. I know I'm making this sound dumb, but your overrating Jackman, like how many minutes of ice time did he get anyways.

Bottom line, the Leafs would have given him to you for say 7-9th rounder instead of Berehowsky..

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Old
10-23-2004, 12:02 PM
  #47
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No. The bottom line is, Jackman has shown nothing but good things wearing a Pens jersey. It has happened so much before with this team. The Kings (I believe) obviously didn't think much of Robert Lang, as they placed him on waivers. Martin Straka was an unsigned RFA who signed with the Pens. Straka has struggled outside of Pittsburgh since being traded. Tarnstrom was a waiver wire pickup from NYI, now he's a 50 point defenseman. I don't think Leaf and Pens fans will ever agree on this subject though. Time will tell.

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Old
10-23-2004, 12:19 PM
  #48
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in a PENS jersey... ahuh, so then if he puts on a Leafs jersey he'll crash and burn immediately.. flukes do happen.., he was a 10th d man behind Leetch, McCabe, Kaberle, Klee, Berg, Pilar, Coco, Johansson and Marchment.. at that time.. and hes your what no. 2 dman, and he scored. woah that must have been hard considering all the help he got. [sarcasm] boy i wish that we had kept him.. [/sarcasm]


Last edited by It Kills Me: 10-23-2004 at 12:53 PM.
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Old
10-23-2004, 12:36 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
in a PENS jersey... ahuh, so then if he puts on a Leafs jersey he'll crash and burn immediately.. flukes do happen.., he was a 10th d man behind Leetch, McCabe, Kaberle, Klee, Berg, Pilar, Coco, Johansson and Marchment.. at that time.. and hes your what no. 2 dman, and he scored. woah that must have been hard considering all the help he got. [sarcasism] boy i wish that we had kept him.. [/sarcasism]
What exactly is sarcasism? I mean, I know what sarcasm is but sarcasism, I have no clue about that.

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Old
10-23-2004, 12:54 PM
  #50
Patty Ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19bruins19
What exactly is sarcasism? I mean, I know what sarcasm is but sarcasism, I have no clue about that.
Ah the mark of one who no longer has a point to argue.

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