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"Busts" Who Can Still Make It?

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Old
10-23-2004, 12:58 PM
  #51
Hunter74
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Bottom line is Quinn is a horrible coach and obviously doesn't know much about getting the max out of the players he has around him. If its not that then its just Jackmann has found a team that can utilizes his skills better as there are no other defenseman with his particular skill set above him on the depth chart.... personally I think Toronto would be alot better with a real coach behind the bench.

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10-23-2004, 01:21 PM
  #52
littleHossa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
in a PENS jersey... ahuh, so then if he puts on a Leafs jersey he'll crash and burn immediately.. flukes do happen.., he was a 10th d man behind Leetch, McCabe, Kaberle, Klee, Berg, Pilar, Coco, Johansson and Marchment.. at that time.. and hes your what no. 2 dman, and he scored. woah that must have been hard considering all the help he got. [sarcasm] boy i wish that we had kept him.. [/sarcasm]
Good thing you didn't put that Jackman was also behind Berehowsky on the depth chart

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Old
10-23-2004, 01:58 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleHossa
Good thing you didn't put that Jackman was also behind Berehowsky on the depth chart
When berehowsky was on the leafs, jackman wasn't so how could the y both be on the depth chart... unless we just got berehowsky for free then we redid the favor by giving hte Pens Jackman.

about me miss spelling sarcasm: thanks, i guess i learned something today.

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10-23-2004, 01:59 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Hunter74
personally I think Toronto would be alot better with a real coach behind the bench.
well, everyone knows that :lol

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Old
10-23-2004, 02:19 PM
  #55
littleHossa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
When berehowsky was on the leafs, jackman wasn't so how could the y both be on the depth chart... unless we just got berehowsky for free then we redid the favor by giving hte Pens Jackman.

about me miss spelling sarcasm: thanks, i guess i learned something today.
You still didn't get it, Well I'm sorry for your loss, Leetch and Johansson were never on the Leafs in the same time Jackman was either, not to mention Cola wasn't going to be brough up, Jackman was at worst 7th on their depthchart. Make Saturday, "Skittles learning" day.

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Old
10-23-2004, 02:41 PM
  #56
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Rita and Brendl...neither have been given a legit chance yet.

That's the bottom line.

Unbiased Canadian

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Old
10-23-2004, 03:43 PM
  #57
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This is exactly like a Pens fan saying Naslund was a good deal because we got something out of nothing, that Naslund would never develop into something good etc...

There are so many examples of players turning their career around (Kovalev, Straka, Naslund, St Louis, Tarsntrom, etc...) that it takes one hefty does of blindness and/or bitterness to say a guy won't amount to anything when he is that talented and had such a stretch last year.

Jackman was the main reason for the Pens' turnaround, even though he wasn't the only one.
He played like a top defenseman, and actually played better and better once his confidence settled firmly.
Pittsburgh is the perfect team for a player to turn his career around, and there are many examples. Straka explained it perfectly when he said the management was around the players and that there was no pressure compared to some other places. Players are able to express themselves freely both on the ice and off it.
Skilled players like Lang, Straka, Kovalev, Tarsntrom or Jackman are able to try offensive moves they would not try in another situation because offensive talent is sacred in Pittsburgh, even if it means making some mistakes.
Jackman did just that, and the mistakes became fewer and fewer. Simply put, he played last year in Pittsburgh the way a guy with his draft status should be playing.

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Old
10-23-2004, 03:54 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero of Tragedy
Ah the mark of one who no longer has a point to argue.
And you pointed this out why? I never posted anything against you.

As for Jackman, of course Leaf fans are going to say "so what?" about him being more succesful in Pittsburgh. I read Evilo's post and I agree with what he said. You know, players CAN improve..

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10-23-2004, 04:22 PM
  #59
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I don't think Fedor Fedorov is going to be anything more than a solid 3rd or 4th liner if even that.

I'm going to get killed by Montreal fans but I don't like Marcel Hossa. Just like most don't like Koivu (Mikko)...I think he'll make it but not as good as Habs will say...if even that. But I think he can still make it.

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Old
10-23-2004, 04:37 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
in a PENS jersey... ahuh, so then if he puts on a Leafs jersey he'll crash and burn immediately.. flukes do happen.., he was a 10th d man behind Leetch, McCabe, Kaberle, Klee, Berg, Pilar, Coco, Johansson and Marchment.. at that time.. and hes your what no. 2 dman, and he scored. woah that must have been hard considering all the help he got. [sarcasm] boy i wish that we had kept him.. [/sarcasm]
Yeah I guess Steve Sullivan, Jason Smith and Fred Modin all sucked too....

Ric Jackman is a good defenseman and would probably be top 4 on most teams in the NHL. I think it was the Leafs mistake for letting him go and I don't think there is much comfort in denying that. Pittsburgh got a great young defenseman who still has potential while the Leafs got a replacement D in case of injuries, this was one of the worst/best deals of last year.

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Old
10-23-2004, 05:05 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorRamon12
Fleury
Lol this one is funny...
didnt see many 18 year old goalies make it to the NHL and actually dominate a game.
Who was the last one ?..
Roy?

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Old
10-23-2004, 05:25 PM
  #62
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Well according to Razor "Players like (Ryan) Whitney simply aren't that valuable."

So take it with a rather large grain of salt.

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Old
10-23-2004, 05:34 PM
  #63
Patty Ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19bruins19
And you pointed this out why? I never posted anything against you.
Its nothin personal...honestly but when people become grammar gestapo even though they knew what they meant...its a pet peeve. There's no need to call someone out like that.

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Old
10-23-2004, 05:49 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoobieDoobieDo
I don't think Fedor Fedorov is going to be anything more than a solid 3rd or 4th liner if even that.

I'm going to get killed by Montreal fans but I don't like Marcel Hossa. Just like most don't like Koivu (Mikko)...I think he'll make it but not as good as Habs will say...if even that. But I think he can still make it.
I don't like Marcel Hossa too. He sucks, the Montreal Canadiens should trade him right away.

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Old
10-23-2004, 05:54 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
Jani Rita
Does anybody know why he has not been playing in Edm with the runners.

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Old
10-23-2004, 05:57 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
I think you need to have seen him play in Toronto before doubting the facts. The facts being that the Leafs would have had an incredibly difficult time acquiring a 7th or 8th round pick for the guy if professional scouts saw him play. He was opening his mouth and making comments to the media about the lack of icetime he was getting weeks before JFJ traded him.
I'm sorry that things didn't work out here, but what's the point in saying 'Jackman's doing it under zero pressure' anyway? What's the point in bending over backwards to prove that he sucks? Jackman was drafted 5th overall. Maybe he couldn't put things together in Toronto because of the pressure, but maybe now he's got the opportunity to find his confidence and build on it so that he will be able to deal with the pressure. People grow, you know? Look at how bad Bryan McCabe was in Chicago and look at where he is now.

Trading Ric Jackman was a huge mistake. As a Leaf fan, I wish that we had the patience to hang onto him, or that he had been more consistent while he was here. But sometimes all a player needs is a change of scenery to put things together. I think he's done that in Pittsburgh.

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Old
10-23-2004, 06:02 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoobieDoobieDo
I don't think Fedor Fedorov is going to be anything more than a solid 3rd or 4th liner if even that.

I'm going to get killed by Montreal fans but I don't like Marcel Hossa. Just like most don't like Koivu (Mikko)...I think he'll make it but not as good as Habs will say...if even that. But I think he can still make it.
I would say Hainsey.

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Old
10-23-2004, 06:29 PM
  #68
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Marcel Hossa

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Old
10-23-2004, 06:59 PM
  #69
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Quote:
didnt see many 18 year old goalies make it to the NHL and actually dominate a game.
Who was the last one ?..
Roy?.
blackburn

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Old
10-23-2004, 07:20 PM
  #70
It Kills Me
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Yeah I guess Steve Sullivan, Jason Smith and Fred Modin all sucked too....

Ric Jackman is a good defenseman and would probably be top 4 on most teams in the NHL. I think it was the Leafs mistake for letting him go and I don't think there is much comfort in denying that. Pittsburgh got a great young defenseman who still has potential while the Leafs got a replacement D in case of injuries, this was one of the worst/best deals of last year.
Steve Sullivan was unwanted by Quinn, Smith and Modin were mistakes.. BUT Jackman hasn't proven yet that we screwed up.. And even if we kept him, do you think he would have gotten a chance to show that he got better, no!

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Old
10-23-2004, 07:26 PM
  #71
Levitate
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i haven't watched jackman play so i can't say anything extremely definitive...but sometimes players just plain suck on one team and do good on another one. there's no guarantee that jackman would have been a good player on the leafs...it isn't necessarily a bad trade for the leafs if he was crap when he was with them.

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Old
10-23-2004, 10:29 PM
  #72
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I dunno, but some players just play better in Pittsburgh. It hink it's because Pittsburgh fans are (generally) easier on struggling players and more likely to hand out applause where due. So there isn't as much pressure to perform well.

Happened with Jackman, same thing happened with Kovy who has't played near as well since leaving Pittsburgh. See also- Jaromir Jagr.

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Old
10-23-2004, 10:41 PM
  #73
Jason MacIsaac
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Would anyone consider Teemu Laine a bust? I know he was drafted in the 2nd round but many had him pegged as a top 15 pick in his draft year and called him the next Selanne/Gaborik.

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Old
10-23-2004, 10:48 PM
  #74
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The two guys that come to mind are (already mentioned) Marcel Hossa and Ron Hainsey. Moreso Hossa, I think Hainsey's either a top 4 in the NHL or a career minor leaguer, and so far he's done nothing to prove he's capable of being a NHL player.

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Old
10-23-2004, 11:20 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooner
I dunno, but some players just play better in Pittsburgh. It hink it's because Pittsburgh fans are (generally) easier on struggling players and more likely to hand out applause where due. So there isn't as much pressure to perform well.

Happened with Jackman, same thing happened with Kovy who has't played near as well since leaving Pittsburgh. See also- Jaromir Jagr.
of crouse it's easier to play in pittsburgh. It's Steelers, Steelers, Steelers, Steelers, Pirates, Steelers, Steelers, Steelers, Steelers, Panthers, Steelers, Steelers, Steelers, Penguins.

Players can play for the Penguins while being under no preasure and because of that they play better. There are tons of players who play amazing in pittsburgh, but suck elsewhere.

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