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Old
02-07-2012, 01:45 PM
  #76
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....And since is the Jake Gardiner thread, I think I'll get back on topic. A poster a little farther above has reminded me that yet again, I got sucked into a Kessel deal debate

I can't believe Burke got him on the Beauchemin deal. A straight up trade, one for the other would have felt like a steal. I had heard some good things about him right around the trade, but never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined how poised he looks out there. He makes intelligent plays, moves the puck a la Kaberle already, and yet has very few of Kaberle's defensive flaws. I expect him to make mistakes once in a while, after all; he's a rookie, young and playing against some real talent some nights. Yet he's been relatively consistent in his level of play. Not too flashy. Doesn't take strange chances - you know, the ones that make you really scratch your head (Lebda says hi).

A real gem there. I hope he has a long, healthy career as a Leaf.

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02-07-2012, 01:45 PM
  #77
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Gardiner will be a top 2 d man, never mind 2nd pairing. He's solid positionally in his defense zone, can skate like the wind, and has great offensive instincts.

Is a Duncan Keith a good comparison?

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02-07-2012, 01:49 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Gardiner will be a top 2 d man, never mind 2nd pairing. He's solid positionally in his defense zone, can skate like the wind, and has great offensive instincts.

Is a Duncan Keith a good comparison?
No.. Keith is an amazing defender.

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02-07-2012, 01:50 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by BIitz View Post
No.. Keith is an amazing defender.
I know that.. But Keith is also an amazing skater and good offensive skill. I'm saying EXACTLY like Keith, but he's definitely got some of the same traits that Keith has now.. Maybe with a bit of fine tuning he could achieve it. Let's remember this is Gardiner's rookie season..

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02-07-2012, 01:51 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIitz View Post
No.. Keith is an amazing defender.
Funny you should say that...I watched him being beaten like a rented mule the other night..vs. Edmonton maybe? If (when) Phaneuf gets beaten like that, he's a bum.

Not saying he's not a great defender, just that the grass is always greener in Leaf Land.

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02-07-2012, 01:52 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Wendelsmustache View Post
Funny you should say that...I watched him being beaten like a rented mule the other night..vs. Edmonton maybe? If (when) Phaneuf gets beaten like that, he's a bum.

Not saying he's not a great defender, just that the grass is always greener in Leaf Land.
Or I'm a Hawk fan and watched him play against the Sedins for three years?

Gardiner doesn't have the potential or talent defensively to play against the Sedins, even if Bolland is in the corner with him.

Also this is the worst he's been beaten.


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02-07-2012, 01:54 PM
  #82
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umm ok

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02-07-2012, 01:55 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIitz View Post
Or I'm a Hawk fan and watched him play against the Sedins for three years?

Gardiner doesn't have the potential or talent defensively to play against the Sedins, even if Bolland is in the corner with him.

Also this is the worst he's been beaten.

If this isn't a bias opinion..

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02-07-2012, 01:56 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendelsmustache View Post
Funny you should say that...I watched him being beaten like a rented mule the other night..vs. Edmonton maybe? If (when) Phaneuf gets beaten like that, he's a bum.

Not saying he's not a great defender, just that the grass is always greener in Leaf Land.
I have no idea where you pulled that out of, but I literally laughed out loud!!! My kid wants to know what's so funny

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02-07-2012, 01:56 PM
  #85
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Should be a solid 2nd pairing guy, like soup was in Chi
I would LOVE if he turned into a Soupy type dman. It's not really fair to call Campbell a 2nd pairing dman, he was only on the 2nd pairing in Chicago because Keith is/was better, and they play the same role. Campbell is a good top pairing dman, and has been from roughly his last year in Buffalo onwards, he was a 2nd pairing dman in Chicago the same way Kesler is a #2 C in Vancouver.

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02-07-2012, 01:57 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
I would LOVE if he turned into a Soupy type dman. It's not really fair to call Campbell a 2nd pairing dman, he was only on the 2nd pairing in Chicago because Keith is/was better, and they play the same role. Campbell is a good top pairing dman, and has been from roughly his last year in Buffalo onwards, he was a 2nd pairing dman in Chicago the same way Kesler is a #2 C in Vancouver.
I meant in the same situation. 2nd on a good team, 1st on a decent team. I think Soup is a pretty unfair comparison at the moment, I just don't see the hype with Gardiner. I'm hesitant to call OEL a future top pairing guy and OEL is better than Gardiner.

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02-07-2012, 01:59 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by GrizzLeaf View Post
I have no idea where you pulled that out of, but I literally laughed out loud!!! My kid wants to know what's so funny
lol I got that from a call from the Pittsburgh commentator (Mike Lange?)...a looong time ago.

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02-07-2012, 02:00 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
If this isn't a bias opinion..
Biased? I'm a leaf fan. Gardiner just isn't that good defensively.

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02-07-2012, 02:02 PM
  #89
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yes he is.

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02-07-2012, 02:04 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIitz View Post
Biased? I'm a leaf fan. Gardiner just isn't that good defensively.
Opinion or fact?

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02-07-2012, 02:05 PM
  #91
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yes he is.
Ok look, he's been decent defensively, but comparing his future to a Duncan Keith is a pretty big step and irrelevant at this stage in his development. He's prone to rookie mistakes, and as a result gets burned. He's been much better since his call-up, but lets keep our expectations in check here.

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02-07-2012, 02:05 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Opinion or fact?
Fact on the position he has usually which is poor, fact that he gets beaten down low, fact that he doesn't come out of corners with the puck, fact that he plays 2 on 1's poorly.

opinion that he isn't very strong, opinion that his speed is the only thing he has going defensively.

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02-07-2012, 02:08 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Opinion or fact?
Biased fact?

I'm not sure what the problem is. Gardiner's a young Dman who's outplayed our expectations of him. He's positionally sound, moves the puck well, and poised to boot! But he's not perfect, no one is. And he does make the odd mistake. That's normal for any Dman, specially a rookie. He also has to adjust to the gruelling 82 game NHL schedule after having played the relatively easy NCAA one (40ish games?). I think that rest he got while in the press box did some good, and I bet he goes there one more time before the play-offs, to rest and recharge. The more tired a player gets the more mistake prone he becomes.

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02-07-2012, 02:09 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIitz View Post
Fact on the position he has usually which is poor, fact that he gets beaten down low, fact that he doesn't come out of corners with the puck, fact that he plays 2 on 1's poorly.

opinion that he isn't very strong, opinion that his speed is the only thing he has going defensively.
His speed helps him a lot and lets him recover when he makes poor positioning choices.
On the other hand, sometimes he uses his speed to chase forwards behind the leafs net, something I'm sure Wilson will correct in his game soon enough.

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02-07-2012, 02:16 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIitz View Post
Fact on the position he has usually which is poor, fact that he gets beaten down low, fact that he doesn't come out of corners with the puck, fact that he plays 2 on 1's poorly.

opinion that he isn't very strong, opinion that his speed is the only thing he has going defensively.
Please tell me which Leafs defenseman does this..

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02-07-2012, 02:19 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIitz View Post
Fact on the position he has usually which is poor, fact that he gets beaten down low, fact that he doesn't come out of corners with the puck, fact that he plays 2 on 1's poorly.

opinion that he isn't very strong, opinion that his speed is the only thing he has going defensively.
He's a rookie. Even Duncan Keith didn't play to the level he did in his rookie season obviously. The thing that Gardiner needs to improve is his strength. I would also disagree that he gets beaten down low and never comes out with the puck. The guy doesn't out muscle forwards but uses his position to separate forwards from the puck. From what I see, he has the potential to be good defensively, but his bread and butter is puck moving. I think the Duncan Keith comparisons aren't that far fetched, he has the skill set but needs to improve and get to that level. Now the Scott Neidermeyer comparisons are just ridiculous.

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02-07-2012, 02:19 PM
  #97
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Must win, just like every other game this week.

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02-07-2012, 02:22 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Please tell me which Leafs defenseman does this..
Does what, win puck battles? Liles, Gunnar, Phaneuf, Schenn actually wins a lot downlow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Beyonder View Post
He's a rookie. Even Duncan Keith didn't play to the level he did in his rookie season obviously. The thing that Gardiner needs to improve is his strength. I would also disagree that he gets beaten down low and never comes out with the puck. The guy doesn't out muscle forwards but uses his position to separate forwards from the puck. From what I see, he has the potential to be good defensively, but his bread and butter is puck moving. I think the Duncan Keith comparisons aren't that far fetched, he has the skill set but needs to improve and get to that level. Now the Scott Neidermeyer comparisons are just ridiculous.
I still don't see it. All Gardiner needs to do sometimes is angle someone off the puck, but he doesn't. People beat him downlow often, maybe he wins a couple, but I rarely see him win a puck battle in the corner, and yes that is due to his lack of strength. Maybe he gets better as he's stronger, but I can't see him being that good defensively if he can't win more of them

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02-07-2012, 02:25 PM
  #99
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Blitz loves trolling Gardiner, he has been doing it for months.

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02-07-2012, 02:30 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIitz View Post
Does what, win puck battles? Liles, Gunnar, Phaneuf, Schenn actually wins a lot downlow.



I still don't see it. All Gardiner needs to do sometimes is angle someone off the puck, but he doesn't. People beat him downlow often, maybe he wins a couple, but I rarely see him win a puck battle in the corner, and yes that is due to his lack of strength. Maybe he gets better as he's stronger, but I can't see him being that good defensively if he can't win more of them
Well, i only have this to say, when Keith was in the minors, how many people thought he would be CHI future no.1?

Well, Jake has all of what, 12 minor games I believe? Why dont we go with the wait and see approach, writing off any players potential is never a good idea.

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