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All-Purpose Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread Part III

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:34 PM
  #426
Stickmata
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Originally Posted by Lebanezer View Post
Havlat shouldn't be traded. Guy hasn't had a real chance to get comfortable yet.
I agree. I think he's still a special player and when he comes back he'll add a lot to the team down the stretch and in the playoffs. If he can stay healthy.

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:48 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Just a thought on point #1.

Having done Heatley and having it not work with that reasoning, do you think he would be cautious about using the same reason again?
This is Doug Wilson... he gave the same excuse when he got Campbell, Boyle, and Heatley. Plus he'd probably say "I got Heatley for a song, and traded him for Havlat"

The more I think about it, the ONLY trade that makes sense is moving Clowe. Doug Wilson pretty much ruled that out, but Nash better replaces Clowe than any other player on the team, and Clowe's salary would clear JUST enough space to fit Nash in next season. The problem is it would leave us back where we started, needed to improve the 3rd line still.

If Nash wants to come to San Jose specifically, and the CBJ are more interested in clearing cap space than a player in return, sure fine go for it Doug. Might screw us up next year, but hell with it, we are 'all in' this year anyway. If this team can't win the cup with this top-9:

Nash - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Marleau
McGinn - Handzus - Havlat

Then what are we talking about anyway.

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:50 PM
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanezer View Post
Havlat shouldn't be traded. Guy hasn't had a real chance to get comfortable yet.
This is true... but if there's a chance that we could give up Havlat (plus something) for Nash, that's a huge improvement for the team. Anyone that thinks Havlat can be as good as Nash, even when he's fully comfortable, is delusional.

The problem, as others have said, is the cap space and what we'd have to give up.

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:54 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by ramstoria View Post
This is true... but if there's a chance that we could give up Havlat (plus something) for Nash, that's a huge improvement for the team. Anyone that thinks Havlat can be as good as Nash, even when he's fully comfortable, is delusional.

The problem, as others have said, is the cap space and what we'd have to give up.
Havlat is over a ppg in the playoffs his last few runs. No one currently on the Sharks can say the same.

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:59 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
This is Doug Wilson... he gave the same excuse when he got Campbell, Boyle, and Heatley. Plus he'd probably say "I got Heatley for a song, and traded him for Havlat"

The more I think about it, the ONLY trade that makes sense is moving Clowe. Doug Wilson pretty much ruled that out, but Nash better replaces Clowe than any other player on the team, and Clowe's salary would clear JUST enough space to fit Nash in next season. The problem is it would leave us back where we started, needed to improve the 3rd line still.

If Nash wants to come to San Jose specifically, and the CBJ are more interested in clearing cap space than a player in return, sure fine go for it Doug. Might screw us up next year, but hell with it, we are 'all in' this year anyway. If this team can't win the cup with this top-9:

Nash - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Marleau
McGinn - Handzus - Havlat

Then what are we talking about anyway.
I like how you think hockeyball

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:02 PM
  #431
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I would do:

Nash-Thornton-Havlat
Clowe-Couture-McGinn
Marleau-Handzus-Pavelski

3rd line = shutdown.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:03 PM
  #432
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the only delusion lies with thinking we will get nash for anything less than draining our depth.

no matter how we get him we give too much in return. the guy will not single handedly win us a cup.

a team effort with an extra tweener that puts up pts and can slot in and have chemistry with our top lines will get us the closest. if there is an older top 6 that teams cant get anything for then sure, go for it. we have th cap space. nash is not the answer.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:07 PM
  #433
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Ryan Malone from TB would be an interesting acquisition for me. Good two way player. He's taking on a load in Tampa as one of the few physical players and that's exposing him to injury more than he would be here. But he can play any position, is experienced in the P/O's, is a good PK'er, can play defense, recover pucks, and score a little. He can play on our second or third lines. His salary is a little high this year but drops in the following two years to a reasonable number. He's injury prone and just turned 32. As with any trade at the deadline, there's a risk. Not sure TB lets him go because they will miss his size, but we could offer some good assets in return and he could really fill several needs here and share the physical presence he's bearing almost alone in in Tampa.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:08 PM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
This is Doug Wilson... he gave the same excuse when he got Campbell, Boyle, and Heatley. Plus he'd probably say "I got Heatley for a song, and traded him for Havlat"

The more I think about it, the ONLY trade that makes sense is moving Clowe. Doug Wilson pretty much ruled that out, but Nash better replaces Clowe than any other player on the team, and Clowe's salary would clear JUST enough space to fit Nash in next season. The problem is it would leave us back where we started, needed to improve the 3rd line still.

If Nash wants to come to San Jose specifically, and the CBJ are more interested in clearing cap space than a player in return, sure fine go for it Doug. Might screw us up next year, but hell with it, we are 'all in' this year anyway. If this team can't win the cup with this top-9:

Nash - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Marleau
McGinn - Handzus - Havlat

Then what are we talking about anyway.
Pretty much this. Plus, it would mean pieces were moved in the offseason which would help with two issues. One, it would help get back some picks or prospects lost to get Nash. Two, with players knowing they may be moved in the offseason, it may force them to put in more effort to prove they deserve to stay during the playoff run.

Hell, since we are talking about things that probably will not happen, what if Nash basically tells his GM and DW he wants a shot at a Cup this year and wants to be traded to the Sharks only to then move again to something more long term in the offseason. Yeah, it would never happen but would be a version of pulling a Hossa except with a contract in place rather than signing one-year deals.

One can dream.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:09 PM
  #435
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"I have no plans to move Ryan Smyth. Ryan has made it clear that he wants to stay here and play for the Oilers." - GM Tambellini

Take Smyth off the list.

It's starting to feel like no teams are going to make any moves. I guess everyone has a shot at the Cup this year.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:09 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by WineShark View Post
Ryan Malone from TB would be an interesting acquisition for me. Good two way player. He's taking on a load in Tampa as one of the few physical players and that's exposing him to injury more than he would be here. But he can play any position, is experienced in the P/O's, is a good PK'er, can play defense, recover pucks, and score a little. He can play on our second or third lines. His salary is a little high this year but drops in the following two years to a reasonable number. He's injury prone and just turned 32. As with any trade at the deadline, there's a risk. Not sure TB lets him go because they will miss his size, but we could offer some good assets in return and he could really fill several needs here and share the physical presence he's bearing almost alone in in Tampa.
He's making too much money. If a 40pt player is making $4.5mil, imagine what Clowe is gonna ask for.

Besides, he would be playing on the third line anyway and that's just too much money paid for a guy with limited ice time... unless you put him on the first line with Thornton and Pavs but I dunno if he can handle top competition like that.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:12 PM
  #437
TealManV
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
the only delusion lies with thinking we will get nash for anything less than draining our depth.

no matter how we get him we give too much in return. the guy will not single handedly win us a cup.

a team effort with an extra tweener that puts up pts and can slot in and have chemistry with our top lines will get us the closest. if there is an older top 6 that teams cant get anything for then sure, go for it. we have th cap space. nash is not the answer.
Very well said. I have wanted to see Nash in teal forever! But we can't continue to drain our prospect pool. And at this point we need more players like Logan, Pavs and Clowe. We can't afford to part with any of those guys. We've made our big move for a sniper when DW brought in Heater... and that didn't really work out for us in the end.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:14 PM
  #438
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Put Nash on the Sharks (or another top team) and they would shread it up. Alot of people say Nash isnt that good. But IMO the Jackets lack quality players to support him. Give Nash the tools like JT, Patty, etc... It would be fun.

But that being said, I would not give up Clowe for him...

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:17 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
He's making too much money. If a 40pt player is making $4.5mil, imagine what Clowe is gonna ask for.

Besides, he would be playing on the third line anyway and that's just too much money paid for a guy with limited ice time... unless you put him on the first line with Thornton and Pavs but I dunno if he can handle top competition like that.
His cap hit drops into the $2M range for the last two years of the contract.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:18 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by sjshrky27 View Post
Put Nash on the Sharks (or another top team) and they would shread it up. Alot of people say Nash isnt that good. But IMO the Jackets lack quality players to support him. Give Nash the tools like JT, Patty, etc... It would be fun.

But that being said, I would not give up Clowe for him...
Well in a vacuum i probably would, only because Clowe only has a year left on his contract anyway (and will be getting a significant raise). Would I do it this year? No. He's too big a part of this teams personality.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:19 PM
  #441
sjshrky27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TealManV View Post
"I have no plans to move Ryan Smyth. Ryan has made it clear that he wants to stay here and play for the Oilers." - GM Tambellini

Take Smyth off the list.

It's starting to feel like no teams are going to make any moves. I guess everyone has a shot at the Cup this year.
That statement by the GM shows why the Oilers will never be competitive in the near future.

Also, I think Smyth is the only player in the NHL that actually likes living in Edmonton...

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:19 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by WineShark View Post
His cap hit drops into the $2M range for the last two years of the contract.
His salary drops, not his cap hit. Cap hit is averaged over the entire contract.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:22 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by sjshrky27 View Post
Put Nash on the Sharks (or another top team) and they would shread it up. Alot of people say Nash isnt that good. But IMO the Jackets lack quality players to support him. Give Nash the tools like JT, Patty, etc... It would be fun.

But that being said, I would not give up Clowe for him...
I strongly disagree with your take. Nash is in a "feed me" system. He wouldn't be given the same golden opportunities with the Sharks and his scoring would suffer. Or, if he was given those opportunities, the rest of the team would suffer and they would become easily defensible in the playoffs.

I have watched Nash a lot over the years and he is a player that I absolutely do not want on the Sharks. There is a reason that his team has faltered every year and why supposed solutions to the players surrounding him have never been sufficient. Part of that reason is Nash himself.

I do not doubt Nash's skills, I do doubt his desire and intelligence.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:24 PM
  #444
TealManV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjshrky27 View Post
Put Nash on the Sharks (or another top team) and they would shread it up. Alot of people say Nash isnt that good. But IMO the Jackets lack quality players to support him. Give Nash the tools like JT, Patty, etc... It would be fun.

But that being said, I would not give up Clowe for him...
If we could get Nash for...
  • one of three 'S' goalies (Sateri, Stalock, Sexsmith)
  • one of Demers or Braun
  • one of Ferriero, Wingels or McCarthy
  • and a 1st
That would be amazing! But then we'd have major cap issues and wouldn't have any room to try and bring back Stuart in the off season like so many fans want, let alone have any depth.

The other point being that Columbus needs some sort of star to build the team around if/when they trade Nash (i.e. Juicy). It doesn't seem like a good fit, unless Nash pulls a Heater and demands to be traded to the Sharks.


Last edited by TealManV: 02-14-2012 at 02:38 PM.
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Old
02-14-2012, 02:27 PM
  #445
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I strongly disagree with your take. Nash is in a "feed me" system. He wouldn't be given the same golden opportunities with the Sharks and his scoring would suffer. Or, if he was given those opportunities, the rest of the team would suffer and they would become easily defensible in the playoffs.

I have watched Nash a lot over the years and he is a player that I absolutely do not want on the Sharks. There is a reason that his team has faltered every year and why supposed solutions to the players surrounding him have never been sufficient. Part of that reason is Nash himself.

I do not doubt Nash's skills, I do doubt his desire and intelligence.
Devil's advocate here, but perhaps part of that reason is because he's playing for a team he (and everyone else) knows won't get anywhere near the playoffs anytime soon? I'd imagine if he were put on a team like the Sharks, he'd be just a smidge more motivated...

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:28 PM
  #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TealManV View Post
If we could get Nash for...
  • one of three 'S' goalies (Sateri, Stalock, Sexsmith)
  • one of Demers or Braun
  • one of Ferriero, Wingels or McCarthy
  • and a 1st
That would be amazing! But then we'd have major cap issues and wouldn't have any room to try and bring back Stewart in the off season like so many fans want, let alone have any depth.

The other point being that Columbus needs some sort of star to build the team around if/when they trade Nash (i.e. Juicy). It doesn't seem like a good fit, unless Nash pulls a Heater and demands to be traded to the Sharks.
I don't think Stalock, Demers, Wingels, and a 1st would net you Nash...especially if someone like NYR offers Dubinsky + 1st or something

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:31 PM
  #447
TealManV
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I don't think Stalock, Demers, Wingels, and a 1st would net you Nash...especially if someone like NYR offers Dubinsky + 1st or something
I completely agree. I was just trying to figure out what DW would realistically be comfortable moving in a package for Nash. And also to show that it wouldn't be nearly enough to compete with offers from other teams, let alone what Columbus would be looking to get back for Nash.

Although I think a package of Stalock, Demers, Wingels, and a 1st is better for a rebuild than Dubinsky + 1st. But I get what you're saying.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:32 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by TealManV View Post
If we could get Nash for...
  • one of three 'S' goalies (Sateri, Stalock, Sexsmith)
  • one of Demers or Braun
  • one of Ferriero, Wingels or McCarthy
  • and a 1st
That would be amazing! But then we'd have major cap issues and wouldn't have any room to try and bring back Stewart in the off season like so many fans want, let alone have any depth.

The other point being that Columbus needs some sort of star to build the team around if/when they trade Nash (i.e. Juicy). It doesn't seem like a good fit, unless Nash pulls a Heater and demands to be traded to the Sharks.
I was so confused, I'm going Stewart who? Then I finally realized you meant Stuart haha.

They have Carter to build around, and they may be just looking to reduce payroll and rebuild from the draft. They could use some puck movers so the best I would offer is: Demers, Wingels, Sexsmith, 1st

If we are really lucky and Handzus will waive (unlikely) I'd send him in a second and take Wingels and 1st out, send a second instead.

Point is, don't get your hopes up. The Sharks just are not in any position to get Nash.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:34 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by itsmarleautime View Post
Devil's advocate here, but perhaps part of that reason is because he's playing for a team he (and everyone else) knows won't get anywhere near the playoffs anytime soon? I'd imagine if he were put on a team like the Sharks, he'd be just a smidge more motivated...
No. Their only playoff year came under Hitch who was practically chasing him around the rink with a whip (hope the visual gives you a chuckle). TM doesn't use that kind of motivation.

There are a few high profile players around the league where I don't want to see them on the Sharks. Nash is one of them. A lot of them are Feed Me's. It is a really bad sign for the future if the Sharks center their offense around a single player.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:37 PM
  #450
sjshrky27
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Nash for

Demers, Mitchell, Ferriero, and a lrg Pizza.

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