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All-Purpose Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread Part III

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Old
02-07-2012, 12:19 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
Roy and Gaustad for Pavelski? Could add Leopold in there as well.

Or Pominville for Pavelski straight up?

I would think of these deals as being after the season. Maybe if you guys don't won't the Cup and management decides a shakeup is necessary. I just figure of all the forwards, Thorton and Marleau heave NTC's and large cap hits, and are over 30. Couture I would assume is untouchable. No one will give any good value for Havlat, so that leaves Pavelski as the only major forward that could really be moved. Having Thorton, Marleau and Couture as guys who can play center, along with Pavelski, makes center a position of abundance. So I could see Pominville being a player of interest.

I'm not trying to say that these things are necessarily true, but that's how I see them as an outsider, and was just curious as to Pavelski's availability, particularly if you guys don't win the cup this season.
Not even close. Pavelski is locked up long term for on a great contract. He's not going anywhere. The "writer" from the bay area who started this speculation is an idiot.

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Old
02-07-2012, 12:22 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
Roy and Gaustad for Pavelski? Could add Leopold in there as well.

Or Pominville for Pavelski straight up?

I would think of these deals as being after the season. Maybe if you guys don't won't the Cup and management decides a shakeup is necessary. I just figure of all the forwards, Thorton and Marleau heave NTC's and large cap hits, and are over 30. Couture I would assume is untouchable. No one will give any good value for Havlat, so that leaves Pavelski as the only major forward that could really be moved. Having Thorton, Marleau and Couture as guys who can play center, along with Pavelski, makes center a position of abundance. So I could see Pominville being a player of interest.

I'm not trying to say that these things are necessarily true, but that's how I see them as an outsider, and was just curious as to Pavelski's availability, particularly if you guys don't win the cup this season.
No interest. Few teams has a player as diverse as Pavelski. He's a great center, great winger, leads the league in face offs, will put up 30+ goals this season most likely. Playoff performer, and likely the next captain of the team. Oh and on a great contract.

Not. Available.

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Old
02-07-2012, 12:22 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
Roy and Gaustad for Pavelski? Could add Leopold in there as well.

Or Pominville for Pavelski straight up?

I would think of these deals as being after the season. Maybe if you guys don't won't the Cup and management decides a shakeup is necessary. I just figure of all the forwards, Thorton and Marleau heave NTC's and large cap hits, and are over 30. Couture I would assume is untouchable. No one will give any good value for Havlat, so that leaves Pavelski as the only major forward that could really be moved. Having Thorton, Marleau and Couture as guys who can play center, along with Pavelski, makes center a position of abundance. So I could see Pominville being a player of interest.

I'm not trying to say that these things are necessarily true, but that's how I see them as an outsider, and was just curious as to Pavelski's availability, particularly if you guys don't win the cup this season.
Not going to happen. Pavelski is a faceoff ace and clutch playoff performer. Not to mention he is defensively responsible and has an awesome wrister. He can also play wing, where he has been all season so the abundance of centers is a moot fact.

also, when thornton and marleau retire that leaves pavs and logan at 1 and 2.

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Old
02-07-2012, 12:33 PM
  #29
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cant believe the pavelski thing is gaining any traction in the blogosphere.

no smart GM will trade like for like with pavs and people like ryan, parise, etc

our line up gets the most bang for its buck right now with diverse players who consistently put up pts. maybe not league leader type points, but they arent carrying the team either. so most GMs will likely undervalue pavs and ask for more...its just not going to happen.

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Old
02-07-2012, 12:34 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Sniper Archetype View Post
There's no reason to ignore him, he's not doing anything wrong. If you don't want to read about stats then skip over his posts.
You do know that's what the ignore function does for you, right?

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Old
02-07-2012, 12:37 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
Except that I provide evidence of the extent to which certain aspects of the game are influenced by luck. If you disagree, you should probably have some evidence to back up your assertions.

"Sharks of previous seasons are definitely reasons why shot differential is not an indicator of success"...sorry, what? The Sharks have won more games since the beginning of the 08-09 season than any other team in the NHL. If you can't even get facts as basic as your favorite team's record straight, there's no point discussing this further.

Also I hardly see how complaining about my responses to other people's posts is productive. You're free to use the ignore function or skip over my posts. I'm usually not the person starting these things, but I'm definitely going to respond to other people's arguments/attacks.
One thing I am very much aware of regarding my favorite team is that the regular season means a whole lot of nothing except for collecting enough points to get in the playoffs where success matters. So yeah, that leads me to believe that shot quality means a lot considering that shot differential hasn't led to a cup.

But yeah, continue to be condescending because that helps get your point across.

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Old
02-07-2012, 12:45 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
Roy and Gaustad for Pavelski? Could add Leopold in there as well.

Or Pominville for Pavelski straight up?

I would think of these deals as being after the season. Maybe if you guys don't won't the Cup and management decides a shakeup is necessary. I just figure of all the forwards, Thorton and Marleau heave NTC's and large cap hits, and are over 30. Couture I would assume is untouchable. No one will give any good value for Havlat, so that leaves Pavelski as the only major forward that could really be moved. Having Thorton, Marleau and Couture as guys who can play center, along with Pavelski, makes center a position of abundance. So I could see Pominville being a player of interest.

I'm not trying to say that these things are necessarily true, but that's how I see them as an outsider, and was just curious as to Pavelski's availability, particularly if you guys don't win the cup this season.
If it gets blown up and players are shipped out, the future Top-6 looks something like...

xx-Couture-xx
xx-Pavelski-xx

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Old
02-07-2012, 12:47 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
If everyone would just use the ignore feature and stop quoting him, the clutter would go away. Please. Stop quoting him.
Done.

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Old
02-07-2012, 12:57 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
Because, as I've said a thousand times now, shooting percentage in small sample sizes is entirely luck. If something is a skill it should be repeatable. Shooting percentage at the team level has shown not to be. Over a multiple-year sample all teams regress to league average SH% of 8.1%. Even over the course of a single season, all teams regress heavily towards that number as well as a PDO (SH% + SV%) of 1000 overall.

And, of course, shot differential is the true indicator of team talent and the Sharks are 6th in the league in Fenwick Close and 5th in the league in even strength goal differential so the numbers sometimes match up even halfway through a season.
Okay, so the reason we aren't first in scoring is that we're "unlucky"? I'm sorry, but I just have a really hard time believing that? I understand PDO and Fenwick and all those things, but the fact is, we're always first in shots (have been for years) and we are almost never first in scoring. Sounds a bit too unlucky to me.

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Old
02-07-2012, 01:27 PM
  #35
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How about some sort of combo package of AKostitsyn and Moen coming to the Sharks? AK would be a terrific depth scoring forward and Moen can provide some grit and PK skills. I think the two teams do make good trading partners. Sharks can dangle a combination of second rounders and/or D prospects.

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Old
02-07-2012, 01:33 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
Okay, so the reason we aren't first in scoring is that we're "unlucky"? I'm sorry, but I just have a really hard time believing that? I understand PDO and Fenwick and all those things, but the fact is, we're always first in shots (have been for years) and we are almost never first in scoring. Sounds a bit too unlucky to me.
Maybe you should look at wins instead. The goal is to win the most games, not score the most goals. We won the Presidents Trophy just in 2008-09.

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Old
02-07-2012, 01:34 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Dan K211 View Post
How about some sort of combo package of AKostitsyn and Moen coming to the Sharks? AK would be a terrific depth scoring forward and Moen can provide some grit and PK skills. I think the two teams do make good trading partners. Sharks can dangle a combination of second rounders and/or D prospects.
Okay look. Not a SINGLE Shark fan wants Moen. Please, get that through your and every Hab fan's head.

Anyway, I like AK and would love him on the Sharks, but I doubt anyone else here would, so that's a no.

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Old
02-07-2012, 01:42 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
Okay look. Not a SINGLE Shark fan wants Moen. Please, get that through your and every Hab fan's head.

Anyway, I like AK and would love him on the Sharks, but I doubt anyone else here would, so that's a no.
Russian rental, DW's kryptonite.

At this point I think we have a problem. Everyone is looking for a top-6 guy and the Sharks do not have the assets to compete in a bidding war (and should not anyway).

So unless someone like Doan pulls a "I will only waive for the Sharks' we are not getting one of the premier guys. I don't think DW want's a rental player either.

What he should do here is while other teams are scrambling to try and get those premier players DW should quietly swoop in and grab someone just out of the premier range. Nielson, Downie, Purcell, etc. Someone who can get the job done and who's GM is not being slammed with offers for (yet). If he waits till the deadline, he's not only going to get outcompeted for the premier guys, he's going to get out competed for the 2nd rate guys as the premier guys start to be moved and GM's move onto what's left.

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Old
02-07-2012, 01:44 PM
  #39
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Totally agree. At this point, I don't want DW to go after Ruutu, because he'd have to overpay so bad.

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Old
02-07-2012, 01:49 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Russian rental, DW's kryptonite.

At this point I think we have a problem. Everyone is looking for a top-6 guy and the Sharks do not have the assets to compete in a bidding war (and should not anyway).

So unless someone like Doan pulls a "I will only waive for the Sharks' we are not getting one of the premier guys. I don't think DW want's a rental player either.

What he should do here is while other teams are scrambling to try and get those premier players DW should quietly swoop in and grab someone just out of the premier range. Nielson, Downie, Purcell, etc. Someone who can get the job done and who's GM is not being slammed with offers for (yet). If he waits till the deadline, he's not only going to get outcompeted for the premier guys, he's going to get out competed for the 2nd rate guys as the premier guys start to be moved and GM's move onto what's left.
Even better would be if DW could somehow manage to get two of those second-tier guys as over the course of the playoffs, that would help foster better depth.

Friedman of CBC Sports also mentioned in his blog a GM noted that going the Boston route at the deadline will be easier than looking for an impact player.

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Old
02-07-2012, 01:58 PM
  #41
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Not even close. Pavelski is locked up long term for on a great contract. He's not going anywhere. The "writer" from the bay area who started this speculation is an idiot.
Was the "writer" Ray Fatto?

Curious.

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Old
02-07-2012, 02:02 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Splitbtw View Post
Even better would be if DW could somehow manage to get two of those second-tier guys as over the course of the playoffs, that would help foster better depth.

Friedman of CBC Sports also mentioned in his blog a GM noted that going the Boston route at the deadline will be easier than looking for an impact player.
And that pretty much is all the Sharks need, not a some "bonafide" top 6 player. Get 'er done, DW!

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Old
02-07-2012, 02:07 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Splitbtw View Post
Even better would be if DW could somehow manage to get two of those second-tier guys as over the course of the playoffs, that would help foster better depth.

Friedman of CBC Sports also mentioned in his blog a GM noted that going the Boston route at the deadline will be easier than looking for an impact player.
Yah I agree. Something like this:

To NYI:
Sexsmith + Ferriero
To SJS:
Nielsen

To TB:
2nd + Wingels
To SJS:
Downie

Nielson, while a rental, covers our two-way forward needs. Downie is good insurance forward depth, and a non-rental. Healthy line up would look like:

Marleau - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
McGinn - Nielsen - Downie
Winchester - Handzus - Desjardin
Mitchell

That's a lot of forward depth, and a team that has a shot at the cup.

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02-07-2012, 02:09 PM
  #44
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Yah I agree. Something like this:

To NYI:
Sexsmith + Ferriero
To SJS:
Nielsen

To TB:
2nd + Wingels
To SJS:
Downie

Nielson, while a rental, covers our two-way forward needs. Downie is good insurance forward depth, and a non-rental. Healthy line up would look like:

Marleau - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
McGinn - Nielsen - Downie
Winchester - Handzus - Desjardin
Mitchell

That's a lot of forward depth, and a team that has a shot at the cup.
I'd swap Downie, Havlat and Marleau to spread out scoring but otherwise looks good.

You should post it to the trade board or the respective teams' boards to get feedback.

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Old
02-07-2012, 02:19 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Yah I agree. Something like this:

To NYI:
Sexsmith + Ferriero
To SJS:
Nielsen

To TB:
2nd + Wingels
To SJS:
Downie

Nielson, while a rental, covers our two-way forward needs. Downie is good insurance forward depth, and a non-rental. Healthy line up would look like:

Marleau - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
McGinn - Nielsen - Downie
Winchester - Handzus - Desjardin
Mitchell

That's a lot of forward depth, and a team that has a shot at the cup.
That also adds speed and would easily be the deepest Sharks' team when you factor in the D. Also would have a nice mix of size, speed and grit as well as flexibility if lines aren't working or injuries happen.

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Old
02-07-2012, 02:24 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Yah I agree. Something like this:

To NYI:
Sexsmith + Ferriero
To SJS:
Nielsen

To TB:
2nd + Wingels
To SJS:
Downie

Nielson, while a rental, covers our two-way forward needs. Downie is good insurance forward depth, and a non-rental. Healthy line up would look like:

Marleau - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
McGinn - Nielsen - Downie
Winchester - Handzus - Desjardin
Mitchell

That's a lot of forward depth, and a team that has a shot at the cup.
Islanders fans are pretty keen on the Murray for Nielsen + 3rd deal so I'd take that and then, trade the 3rd, 2nd and Wingels for Kubina and Downie. Kubina's a UFA and gives us a replacement for Murray.

Do it DW!

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Old
02-07-2012, 02:25 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Yah I agree. Something like this:

To NYI:
Sexsmith + Ferriero
To SJS:
Nielsen
I'm pretty sure the Isles don't need any more goalies.

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Old
02-07-2012, 02:26 PM
  #48
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That also adds speed and would easily be the deepest Sharks' team when you factor in the D. Also would have a nice mix of size, speed and grit as well as flexibility if lines aren't working or injuries happen.
Plus it's a team we can likely afford next year:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.680m) / Frans Nielsen ($2.000m) / Steve Downie ($2.500m)
Brad Winchester ($0.725m) / Michal Handzus ($2.500m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.540m)
James Sheppard ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
Nick Petrecki ($1.125m)

GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.587m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,109,167; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): -$809,167

Just a rough guess there. Lots of wiggle room. Also, in my earlier line-up, I forgot about Sheppard hehe.

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Old
02-07-2012, 02:30 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Plus it's a team we can likely afford next year:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.680m) / Frans Nielsen ($2.000m) / Steve Downie ($2.500m)
Brad Winchester ($0.725m) / Michal Handzus ($2.500m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.540m)
James Sheppard ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
Nick Petrecki ($1.125m)

GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.587m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,109,167; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): -$809,167

Just a rough guess there. Lots of wiggle room. Also, in my earlier line-up, I forgot about Sheppard hehe.
Never seen Petrecki play. Is he as good as Vandy or White? Is he mainly a defensive or offensive D-man? Physical?

I would like to see Vandy get resigned if possible. He has been a good asset and filled in however we have asked him to.Gives us a good physical presence and never afraid to drop his gloves. Also, would like to see some veteran depth on every defensive pairing if possible.

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Old
02-07-2012, 02:31 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
Okay, so the reason we aren't first in scoring is that we're "unlucky"? I'm sorry, but I just have a really hard time believing that? I understand PDO and Fenwick and all those things, but the fact is, we're always first in shots (have been for years) and we are almost never first in scoring. Sounds a bit too unlucky to me.
The Sharks have never been first in the NHL in 5-on-5 shot rate.

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