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All-Purpose Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread Part III

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Old
02-14-2012, 05:48 PM
  #576
Mafoofoo
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The only way to terminate a contract is through the buyout. To buy him out, you'd have to pay him 31.6 mil over the next twelve years and eat a cap hit of 2.6 mil with some fluctuations until 2024. Then at that point, he is a free agent and you can sign him to a new deal.
I thought if both Nash and the Jackets agreed they could rip the contract up.

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02-14-2012, 05:50 PM
  #577
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I don't think so. Heatley's salary goes down as the contract goes on while Nash' goes up. On top of that Heatley has had much better numbers. In fact Heatley's career low is only 5 points less than Nash's career high (I didn't count the crash season since that was only 31 games played). He also had 41 goals and 48 assists with the Thrashers so it's not like he's played with Pizza line or the Sharks his whole career.
The Wild still had to pay Heater 8 million this year which is still a pretty high price to pay even if it does go down in the next two seasons. Heatley has had better numbers because he's had better players. His Atlanta days, he was still playing with Savard and Kovalchuk. Teams will still need to get to the floor regardless.

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02-14-2012, 05:51 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
I thought if both Nash and the Jackets agreed they could rip the contract up.
He would have to go through waivers to do that, I believe.

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02-14-2012, 05:51 PM
  #579
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Also Easy's said multiple times that no way in hell would Nash be given the free reign/ice time here in SJ as he gets in Columbus. His numbers would suffer because of that.
Not that I'm supportive of a trade for Nash, because I'm not, but his average ice time is barely higher than Ryan Clowe's, so if Clowe or any similar forward were involved in the deal, the Sharks would have no problem getting Nash similar minutes.

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02-14-2012, 05:52 PM
  #580
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would columbus do a
nash for havlat+d.murray+doherty+stalock+1st?
salaries are basically a wash, i believe its like 300k differance. murrays gone after this season anyways, and havlat has been very useless.

lines then look like

nash-jumbo-pavs
marleau-couture-clowe

thats an excellent top 6, and i like it better then our current one

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02-14-2012, 05:59 PM
  #581
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Regardless of the cap numbers and future management of the cap, one nice thing about Nash is you wouldn't need to put him with JT. He could be on the second line or a third scoring line and create offense on his own. That then leaves Marleau-JT-Pavs as a shutdown line and the other two lines as additional scorning lines.

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:03 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Can't blame them for taking Klesla, but his development was probably stalled by being thrown to the wolves as a 19 year old. Leclaire was a bit of a strange pick in that goaltending seemed to be the one thing Columbus had with a 23 year old Marc Denis.

Most had Zherdev in the top 4, although Doug MacLean probably regrets bragging to the media about how Columbus had him ranked #1 over Staal. They screwed up in 2004 by trading down (Carolina took Andrew Ladd with the BJs pick).

Can't fault them for taking Brule in 2005, but like Klesla, they probably brought him in too soon. Injuries were another big factor there, although I'd like to see Brule churn out a good career from here on out.

Can't fault them on Brassard, Mueller/Okposo haven't been consistent. Mueller complained his way out of Phoenix and Okposo was a healthy scratch a few times this year. They also had Claude Giroux #11 on their list which was probably higher than most teams. If only they had been picking later, they might look like geniuses.

Although it's personally amusing to me since I grew up a Kings fan, but then GM Sam McMaster made some horrible trades (Robitaille/Sandstrom/Gretzky/Zhitnik/Sydor) in the mid 90s which led to me becoming a Devils fan. McMaster was fired in 1998 and was hired by Columbus in 1999 as one of their head amateur scouts. McMaster was on record as having Brassard ranked ahead of Toews/Staal/Backstrom/Kessel, although the final Columbus list had Brassard #5.

Filatov is tough as he was supposed to be the North Americanized Russian. Many were giving the Islanders crap about not taking him while they could.

On top of their first round flops, Columbus has just about completely missed with a lot of high 2nd rounders. They managed to give away their 2nd rounder in 2003 for Grant Marshall; Dallas turned that pick into Loui Eriksson.
Thank you for the history and details. What I have seen in surveying teams is that all of them make mistakes by taking a worse player earlier. However, they need to minimize those mistakes. I confined myself to the two following picks so there wasn't a stretch. To be competitive, teams need to get into the 50% success rate by that pick-after measure on top 10 picks. CBJ isn't close. I don't attribute it all to drafting; there is a lot of it in the player development post-draft which is visible in their later picks' lack of success. Your elucidation of the details gave me a more definitive reason to say that their organization's ability to pick is beyond questionable.

I also grant that Klesla wasn't a bad pick. He and Nash were likely the only two where they were in the ballpark.

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02-14-2012, 06:05 PM
  #583
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Ruutu officially off the market.

With Moen gone the other day as well, and pretty much everyone else still in the playoff hunt, the pickins are very slim.

If San Jose is on that list of Nash's it puts them in a position to have a reasonable shot at acquiring him. It could come down to Nash, or scraps. Pretty sad.

As it stands right now, I see a final four of Boston, NYR, Vancouver, Detroit.

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02-14-2012, 06:06 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloweForbidzYou View Post
would columbus do a
nash for havlat+d.murray+doherty+stalock+1st?
salaries are basically a wash, i believe its like 300k differance. murrays gone after this season anyways, and havlat has been very useless.

lines then look like

nash-jumbo-pavs
marleau-couture-clowe

thats an excellent top 6, and i like it better then our current one
My question is...Would you really WANT to do that? Nash is great but all those players combined have a much greater value to the Sharks.

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02-14-2012, 06:14 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Ruutu officially off the market.

With Moen gone the other day as well, and pretty much everyone else still in the playoff hunt, the pickins are very slim.

If San Jose is on that list of Nash's it puts them in a position to have a reasonable shot at acquiring him. It could come down to Nash, or scraps. Pretty sad.

As it stands right now, I see a final four of Boston, NYR, Vancouver, Detroit.

Pretty much agreed with this.

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:23 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The only way to terminate a contract is through the buyout. To buy him out, you'd have to pay him 31.6 mil over the next twelve years and eat a cap hit of 2.6 mil with some fluctuations until 2024. Then at that point, he is a free agent and you can sign him to a new deal.
if you are thinking columbus type signing that is not possible, but for the sharks then yes it is possible but wouldn't happen cause then nash has free reigns of where he wants to go and just how much he wants to make.

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:24 PM
  #587
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Pretty much agreed with this.
I think Detroit is ripe for an early round upset this year. Just a hunch.

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:24 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Ruutu officially off the market.

With Moen gone the other day as well, and pretty much everyone else still in the playoff hunt, the pickins are very slim.

If San Jose is on that list of Nash's it puts them in a position to have a reasonable shot at acquiring him. It could come down to Nash, or scraps. Pretty sad.

As it stands right now, I see a final four of Boston, NYR, Vancouver, Detroit.
Brodziak for Minn's 2nd ? He'd be an upgrade on Mitchell

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:29 PM
  #589
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if you are thinking columbus type signing that is not possible, but for the sharks then yes it is possible but wouldn't happen cause then nash has free reigns of where he wants to go and just how much he wants to make.
I don't have any idea what you're saying here. The buyout option is just not going to happen because of the dead space.

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02-14-2012, 06:35 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by CloweForbidzYou View Post
would columbus do a
nash for havlat+d.murray+doherty+stalock+1st?
salaries are basically a wash, i believe its like 300k differance. murrays gone after this season anyways, and havlat has been very useless.

lines then look like

nash-jumbo-pavs
marleau-couture-clowe

thats an excellent top 6, and i like it better then our current one
Too many pieces involved. I've never seen a trade like that happen. Howson gets fired if he trades Nash and the main piece back is an injured player...

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:44 PM
  #591
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so wait, people around here salivate over scrubs like Ehrhoff and Greiss, but when an elite talent like Nash becomes available, they treat him as if he's the ugly dog at the pound nobody wants to adopt?

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:47 PM
  #592
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so wait, people around here salivate over scrubs like Ehrhoff and Greiss, but when an elite talent like Nash becomes available, they treat him as if he's the ugly dog at the pound nobody wants to adopt?
Its not that we think he is the ugly dog. We actually think he is a high pedigree dog with a even higher cost. that is what the problem is.

On a side note ... is the general consensus on our board about Jeff Carter a no go? I understand he has character and health issues but was just curious about him because he looks a good 2.5M cheaper than Nash.

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02-14-2012, 06:48 PM
  #593
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so wait, people around here salivate over scrubs like Ehrhoff and Greiss, but when an elite talent like Nash becomes available, they treat him as if the ugly dog at the pound nobody wants to adopt?
Yeah, that's what people are doing. You don't pick up players of Nash's caliber without making sure he is an absolute fit on this team. That kind of thing is much harder to decipher when the player is more of a goal scorer than a play-maker.

And your dislike for German hockey players is astounding.

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02-14-2012, 06:50 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
Its not that we think he is the ugly dog. We actually think he is a high pedigree dog with a even higher cost. that is what the problem is.

On a side note ... is the general consensus on our board about Jeff Carter a no go? I understand he has character and health issues but was just curious about him because he looks a good 2.5M cheaper than Nash.
Too long of a contract.

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:51 PM
  #595
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if DW had the ability to take in a large contract like he did with Heatley 2 seasons ago, then he's just as capable of pulling the same thing now. Nash's cap hit is what? 300K more than Heatley?

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02-14-2012, 06:53 PM
  #596
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so wait, people around here salivate over scrubs like Ehrhoff and Greiss, but when an elite talent like Nash becomes available, they treat him as if he's the ugly dog at the pound nobody wants to adopt?
Woah, nobody said he was Wade Redden.

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02-14-2012, 06:54 PM
  #597
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if DW had the ability to take in a large contract like he did with Heatley 2 seasons ago, then he's just as capable of pulling the same thing now. Nash's cap hit is what? 300K more than Heatley?
Of course he has the ability. It's a question of whether it is the right thing to do. And just like with Heatley, it has collateral damage if it does occur. Heatley was not worth it and Nash isn't either because they aren't complete fits. You make those big trades for play-makers that make others around him better. Nash isn't that.

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02-14-2012, 06:54 PM
  #598
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if DW had the ability to take in a large contract like he did with Heatley 2 seasons ago, then he's just as capable of pulling the same thing now. Nash's cap hit is what? 300K more than Heatley?
That's what worries us.

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Old
02-14-2012, 06:55 PM
  #599
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if DW had the ability to take in a large contract like he did with Heatley 2 seasons ago, then he's just as capable of pulling the same thing now. Nash's cap hit is what? 300K more than Heatley?
7.8 until 2018.

No thanks.

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Old
02-14-2012, 07:02 PM
  #600
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if DW had the ability to take in a large contract like he did with Heatley 2 seasons ago, then he's just as capable of pulling the same thing now. Nash's cap hit is what? 300K more than Heatley?
Yeah and Nash isn't worth that fat contract. DW would have to be pants on head retarded to trade for him.

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