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All-Purpose Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread Part III

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Old
02-09-2012, 01:22 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
We have both Demers and Boyle out. If Demers is in, it's fine.
What about Boyle though? Just looking at this as an outsider. He's getting older, and looking at his production only (haven't watched a ton of SJ as I live on the East Coast and am often up by 5:30am for work almost every day), he seems to be slowing down. If they lose him (retirement or injury, just saying, it's possible), they have Burns, but not a real setup man on the point. Maybe Demers can become that, but it's not a sure thing. Maybe someone would need to be added?

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02-09-2012, 01:29 AM
  #202
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/...ettable_deals/

Sportsnet says our trade to acquire Brian Campbell is one of the 10 most regrettable trade deadline deals in NHL history. Ha!

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Old
02-09-2012, 01:29 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
What about Boyle though? Just looking at this as an outsider. He's getting older, and looking at his production only (haven't watched a ton of SJ as I live on the East Coast and am often up by 5:30am for work almost every day), he seems to be slowing down. If they lose him (retirement or injury, just saying, it's possible), they have Burns, but not a real setup man on the point. Maybe Demers can become that, but it's not a sure thing. Maybe someone would need to be added?
Boyle isn't really slowing down, he played the first part of the season on a broken foot and it really showed in his skating, which is a huge part of Boyle's game. Since he's been healthy, he's back to his normal game and was on pace for another 50 point season.

The Sharks don't have a replacement for what Boyle brings (neither Burns or Demers are even close to his offensive game), if he goes down to a long term injury it would be a huge blow!

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Old
02-09-2012, 01:30 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
What about Boyle though? Just looking at this as an outsider. He's getting older, and looking at his production only (haven't watched a ton of SJ as I live on the East Coast and am often up by 5:30am for work almost every day), he seems to be slowing down. If they lose him (retirement or injury, just saying, it's possible), they have Burns, but not a real setup man on the point. Maybe Demers can become that, but it's not a sure thing. Maybe someone would need to be added?
Boyle was playing with a broken foot early in the season. Also had some issues with his stick that he mentioned. Since he's healed and sorted out his equipment, he's been great.

Look around the league too... seems like every defenseman that was putting up huge numbers has had a difficult time this season (except Karlsson).

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Old
02-09-2012, 01:33 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
What about Boyle though? Just looking at this as an outsider. He's getting older, and looking at his production only (haven't watched a ton of SJ as I live on the East Coast and am often up by 5:30am for work almost every day), he seems to be slowing down. If they lose him (retirement or injury, just saying, it's possible), they have Burns, but not a real setup man on the point. Maybe Demers can become that, but it's not a sure thing. Maybe someone would need to be added?
Boyle is a gym rat, loves to play, and has the most passion of anyone on this team. He has been close to PPG for a few weeks now. His beginning of the year was brutal, as someone decided it would be a good idea for our 36-year-old #1D to play a month with a broken foot. He has been the same old Boyle as the last few years since he said he felt 100%.

Demers is Boyle-lite. Obviously nowhere near Boyle's upside, but he is similar in style and will be a good QB to Burns' triggerman.

I'm not particularly worried about our defense.

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Old
02-09-2012, 01:41 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Iron Chef View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/...ettable_deals/

Sportsnet says our trade to acquire Brian Campbell is one of the 10 most regrettable trade deadline deals in NHL history. Ha!
Terrible list. Sportsnet should be ashamed.

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Old
02-09-2012, 04:03 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Terrible list. Sportsnet should be ashamed.
Agreed only since the Kovalchuk to NJD trade is up there. Granted things were regrettable when Kovy first got to New Jersey, but later in the same season to present day he's been playing his fair share.

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Old
02-09-2012, 07:03 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
That's what I was asking when he was on waivers.
Every yr Grabner has been a notoriously bad starter.He's admitted as much in interviews/

Tallon should have done his homework before trading for Grabner ,who was expendable because of the great depth in Vancouver's top 6.


Tallon tried sneaking Grabner through waivers after another bad training camp and the isles,who'd just lost Okposo to shoulder surgery ,were glad to see the former 1st rounder on the waiver wire.Just a lucky break on Snow's part and a bad gamble on Tallon's.

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Old
02-09-2012, 11:12 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
Murray's still the same. I would be fine trading him b/c we know we have to trade something of value to acquire a young-tweener-who-maybe-could-become-a-top-6 forward, and he could be the odd man out. Reports are Brad Stuart wants to sign with a California team this offseason, and he'd be a more than able replacement. Plus, we have Petrecki who's a season or 2 away from being able to take Murray's spot.

I don't want to part with any other roster player that has value (Pavs, Clowe, Demers, Braun).
Quote:
Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Murray, alongside Boyle, had a rough start to the season but he's still a top 4 d-man and has been much better since coming back from injury - some Sharks fans have just decided he's expendable for forward help. I am definitely not one of them.

A Bailey for Murray deal in the offseason might be something I'd do but I wouldn't do it now, just my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
He's kind of slow to begin with, and when you add up all the massive hits/collisions he's a part of - I'd peg him as a good bet to fall off a cliff long term. He's already 31. We can find someone to fill his role. Defensive d-men are easier to find than puck movers too, so that's another point against him. I love Murray as a fan right now, but 2 or 3 years from now, who knows what he'll look like on the ice?
Thanks for the opinion guys, I wish we could call up our GM's. In the offseason I'd like it as well, both are signed on for the upcoming year.

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Old
02-09-2012, 11:17 AM
  #210
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i was confused on two plays.

one on the 2v2.

burns and murray both pressured the puck carrier and seemed caught on their heels when he slid the puck over for the goal. poor communication, both players are at fault for not talking, but burns needs to take away the extra skater.

the colin white giveaway. rewind thornton does a good job getting it to burns who has empty ice all around him and players skating to the o-zone decides to drop it to white...wtf? okay we still have the puck its okay. so now comes a 2 man forecheck and thornton skates for a change! and not even quickly, he just glides off the ice!!
so then clowe tries to recover, but white doesnt look up he just bounces the puck toward the blue line...the worst play ive seen all year.

I have heard Tmac was pissed and basically said we will see a different team on friday.

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Old
02-09-2012, 11:20 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
I have heard Tmac was pissed and basically said we will see a different team on friday.
We are trading out entire team with the Kings team, on Friday we will be cheering for Doughty and Kopitar.

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Old
02-09-2012, 11:25 AM
  #212
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We are trading out entire team with the Kings team, on Friday we will be cheering for Doughty and Kopitar.
Well now I'm excited for friday all of a sudden.

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Old
02-09-2012, 12:11 PM
  #213
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Worst trade than Soupy for the Sharks -- Bill Guerin



capgeek: The #NHL #SJSharks could add ~$12.5m at the deadline (or more with demotions) http://t.co/rPmZRSTD

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Old
02-09-2012, 12:14 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Worst trade than Soupy for the Sharks -- Bill Guerin



capgeek: The #NHL #SJSharks could add ~$12.5m at the deadline (or more with demotions) http://t.co/rPmZRSTD
If they sent down McCarthy, Wingels and Braun (if everyone was healthy, until the playoffs) they'd have like 15m in space i think heh

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Old
02-09-2012, 12:30 PM
  #215
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Funny, this year every team, except the Canucks, can pretty much add anyone. Cap space isn't an issue. Now finding a deal, with so many sellers, is an entirely different issue.

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Old
02-09-2012, 12:30 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
If they sent down McCarthy, Wingels and Braun (if everyone was healthy, until the playoffs) they'd have like 15m in space i think heh
In case I for one am excited to see how Todd integrates Malkin into the lineup since we clearly are gonna acquire him.


I'm thinking/looking forward to a healthy line up of

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Clowe-Malkin-Couture
McGinn-Mitchell-Havlat
Winchester-Dezzy-Vandermeer


Vlasic-Boyle
Murray-Burns
Demers-Braun


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Old
02-09-2012, 12:34 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Murray, alongside Boyle, had a rough start to the season but he's still a top 4 d-man and has been much better since coming back from injury - some Sharks fans have just decided he's expendable for forward help. I am definitely not one of them.

A Bailey for Murray deal in the offseason might be something I'd do but I wouldn't do it now, just my opinion.
Except, as much as I like the guy, Douglas Murray is not really a top 4 d-man in today's NHL. He's a physical, slow, defensive defenseman who doesn't skate very well and offers almost nothing offensively. A very one dimensional player IMO, and that dimension is less valuable this year than it was last because of the new rules. I like him and know he's a fan favorite, but he's certainly expendable if the Sharks can get something of real value for him.

To put it in perspective, per game, Jim Vandemeer has better stats across the board than Murray this year. Is Vandemeer a top 4 defenseman in this league?

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Old
02-09-2012, 12:39 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
In case I for one am excited to see how Todd integrates Malkin into the lineup since we clearly are gonna acquire him.


I'm thinking/looking forward to a healthy line up of

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Clowe-Malkin-Couture
McGinn-Crosby-Havlat
Winchester-Dezzy-Vandermeer


Vlasic-Boyle
Murray-Burns
Demers-Braun

Why stop at Malkin? Clearly, Crosby should be a buy-low bargain.

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Old
02-09-2012, 12:48 PM
  #219
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was it just me or did i see murray in the crease getting shots off all game?

was it a strategy adjustment to deal with the missing boyle? maybe hes trying not to get traded...who knows.

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Old
02-09-2012, 12:49 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
Except, as much as I like the guy, Douglas Murray is not really a top 4 d-man in today's NHL. He's a physical, slow, defensive defenseman who doesn't skate very well and offers almost nothing offensively. A very one dimensional player IMO, and that dimension is less valuable this year than it was last because of the new rules. I like him and know he's a fan favorite, but he's certainly expendable if the Sharks can get something of real value for him.

To put it in perspective, per game, Jim Vandemeer has better stats across the board than Murray this year. Is Vandemeer a top 4 defenseman in this league?
Yes, because that's how stats work...you don't bother taking into account the quality of the comp their facing, zone starts, the fact Vandy isn't an every day player or that he's played some games at forward, or you know, actually watching them play.

I really don't care that Murray is a one dimensional player and what new rules would you be reffering to?

Murray is still a top 4 dman, the defense would be worse if you remove him from the line up gave more ice time against better players to Demers, Vandermeer or White.

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Old
02-09-2012, 12:52 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
Why stop at Malkin? Clearly, Crosby should be a buy-low bargain.
Pfft. Crosby on the 3rd line? Now THAT is ridiculous.

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Old
02-09-2012, 01:01 PM
  #222
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Except, as much as I like the guy, Douglas Murray is not really a top 4 d-man in today's NHL. He's a physical, slow, defensive defenseman who doesn't skate very well and offers almost nothing offensively. A very one dimensional player IMO, and that dimension is less valuable this year than it was last because of the new rules. I like him and know he's a fan favorite, but he's certainly expendable if the Sharks can get something of real value for him.
Yah I concur. Especially if we can get an equivalent player in return. For instance, I don't particularly feel Murray has been substantially better than Vandermeer this season.

Vandermeer:
Corsi: +4.64
Rel Corsi: -8.9
On ice +-/60 : .71
GA on ice /60: .71
+-: +2
Hits /game: .5
Blocks /game: .71
TKA /game: .36
GVA /game: .21

Murray:
Corsi: -8.11
Rel Corsi: -18.6
on ice +-/60 : .45
GA on ice /60: 1.60
+-: +7
Hits /game: 2.3
Blocks /game: 2.5
TKA /game: .2
GVA /game: .61

Murray is hitting more and blocking more shots, but other than that, In pretty much every single category (I could go on btw, that's just what I listed before i got tired of listing) Vandermeer is beating Murray. Now Murray is seeing tougher quality of competition, but he's not faring terribly well in that role either.

I like Murray as a #5, always have. I think he's a bit overpaid for a #5 though, and I think he is going to fall off a cliff in value fairly soon.

Just as a for instance:

Gill:
Corsi: -6.37
Rel Corsi: -5.7
on ice +-/60 : -.87
GA on ice /60: 2.9
+-: -9
Hits /game: .84
Blocks /game: 2.76
TKA /game: .22
GVA /game: .94 (ouch)

Gill is god awful.

Stuart:
Corsi: 6.73
Rel Corsi: -5.6
on ice +-/60 : .89
GA on ice /60: 2.2
+-: +14
Hits /game: 2.28
Blocks /game: 1.57
TKA /game: .35
GVA /game: .26

White (Colin):
Corsi: 8.82
Rel Corsi: 2.0
on ice +-/60 : .29
GA on ice /60: 1.91
+-: +1
Hits /game: 1.19
Blocks /game: 1.53
TKA /game: .19
GVA /game: .5

Makes him look slightly better than we think.

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Old
02-09-2012, 01:13 PM
  #223
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I think DW should just trade for players that would make the Sharks the best team in the league.

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Old
02-09-2012, 01:13 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Yah I concur. Especially if we can get an equivalent player in return. For instance, I don't particularly feel Murray has been substantially better than Vandermeer this season.
Not sure why you put Stuart's numbers in there - he's not getting traded this season.

You think it's a good idea to move Vandermeer or White into a top 4 role or trade for Hal Gill?

Murray is still coming out ahead on his corsi relative to QoC where the other two aren't (Vandy's corsi is horrible considering his QoC) and he's still a better defenseman than both of them.

Moving Murray in the offseason is something to consider, but unless there's another d-man coming back that's better than Murray (Gill isn't that player), it would be a mistake to trade him this year.

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Old
02-09-2012, 01:33 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Not sure why you put Stuart's numbers in there - he's not getting traded this season.

You think it's a good idea to move Vandermeer or White into a top 4 role or trade for Hal Gill?

Murray is still coming out ahead on his corsi relative to QoC where the other two aren't (Vandy's corsi is horrible considering his QoC) and he's still a better defenseman than both of them.

Moving Murray in the offseason is something to consider, but unless there's another d-man coming back that's better than Murray (Gill isn't that player), it would be a mistake to trade him this year.
I put Stuarts numbers in there just because people are talking about him replacing Murray next season, for reference.

Gill is freaking awful, so absolutely not. That's the point i was making by listing him. Stay far, far, away.

All I am pointing out here is Murray is not doing terribly well in general. Better than the start of the season, but he's not even close to Vlasic/Burns/Boyle in talent.

Look at Vlasic for instance (who is seeing much higher qualcomp than Murray)

Vlasic:
Corsi: 8.93
Rel Corsi: 6.0
On ice +-/60 : 1
GA on ice /60: 1.69
+-: +17
Hits /game: .47
Blocks /game: 2.14
TKA /game: .16
GVA /game: .53

On an entirely different level from those guys.

I could list Boyle and Burns too, but trust me, it's not even close. Burns for instance has double digit corsi and rel corsi numbers, and his defensive numbers are better than Murray's by quite a bit.

Basically the Sharks defense (defensively) looks like this imo:

Vlasic
Burns
Boyle


Murray
Braun

Vandermeer
White

And White's stats say he's a lot better than he is by eye.

What Murray IS doing is hitting and blocking shots, a lot Is he worth keeping around for $2.5m for hitting and blocking? Depends on what's available. His defense is mediocre though, and his mobility is abysmal.

Are we better off with excellent forward depth and no Murray or Murray and a 3rd line plug if it comes down to it? That's the question that I'm trying to answer, but it's a tough call.

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