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The Option Of Selling Should Be Left On The Table

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Old
02-04-2012, 10:56 PM
  #1
Sens Mile
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The Option Of Selling Should Be Left On The Table

This is not an overreaction due to the loss tonight. The Senators over the past six games, with 12 points avaliable, have only been able to grasp one of the avaliable points. We have a total of 9 games left before the trade deadline in which we have to make some serious decisions.

Ottawa has a league leading 55 games with a firm grasp on the 7th position in the East. Before tonight the closest team behind them are the Washington Capitals with 3 points back with a total of four games in hand. With the additional 1st for the Capitals, I would be absolutley shocked if the Capitals did not further improve their team in some fashion come the trade deadline.

The Leafs are the 8th in the East with three games in hand with a total of 60 points, only one behind the Senators. The Jets have two games in hand and are at 54 points, they have the 10th in the East position. Lets say in a hypotehtical situation they win the next two games, they would only be a total of three points back. The Lightning are the only real remaining threat which exist in the east, if a goaltender can be aquired ala Schnider, they could still do some damage and make a serious ush moving foward. While ten points behind, they have a total of four games up on our organization as of now.

Carolina has some pieces which they are holding onto unexpectedly, making one of the biggest sellers non-compatible. Many of the bottom feeder teams such as the Oilers have been there before, making a lack of assets which they have avaliable. There are only seven definite sellers with only five going to ship off some serious assets mving foward.

The nine games we have left consist of three games that may not be the most winnable games. Two more games, we would be considered underdogs at this point. The remaining 3 games that we are favourites for are two against Islanders and one against the Oilers, and after Friday night those are not guranteed at this point.

If the points do not come in the next nine games, The Murrays have to consider making a trade that would not be a buy. Hypothetcially lets say we only gain six-seven points in the upcoming strech, a trade should not be guranteed that would be considered a "buying trade".

Before the slide we were considered playoff sure-fires, capable of doing some serious damage come first round of the playoffs. Unfortunately the playoffs are no longer considered a gurantee.

The ultimate fear I have for this organization is to be stuck in the meek and mild mode. If the season ends and we are 9th or 10th in the East with no real assets gained, going into the draft with seven picks and no 2nd would be considered a disappointment. We start winning again no complaints, but no playoffs and no moves would be horrible.

Buying requires giving up assets, we have been rumored to be going after the likes of ominic Moore and that requires forefiture of assets in the form of young players and picks. Currently Binghamton is depleted, they rank amongst the bottom of the AHL and we are going to need to add some players in the form of Stone, Kramer, and Blood next year. The key usually to building a sustainable winner is having a farm system that is constantly winning, AHL winning breeds success in the NHL. More assets in form of draft picks will help the AHL affiliate and organization later. If we sell assets moving foward with no winning a playoff position would very much hurt our organization for the long term.

We have four players we need to look at moving foward- Kuba, Carkner, Lee, and Konopka are all pieces we can add draft pieces for. People like Gonchar would lead to potential deals with teams like Philidelphia. Kuba might be even able to get us a 1st considering the lack of great D on the market, the need for them, and the weak draft class. We need to switch the mentality, should really Keep Minds into being Sellers guys.

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02-04-2012, 10:58 PM
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We are making the playoffs and we wont be selling, nor buying. We have enough in the minors. O'brien is an example of how much heart can make a difference.

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02-04-2012, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DylanSensFan View Post
We are making the playoffs and we wont be selling, nor buying. We have enough in the minors. O'brien is an example of how much heart can make a difference.
O'Brien is an iffy guy at best. Him and Daugavins are far from sure-fire NHLers moving foward. Da Costa and Borowicki are the only two im confident about as sure fire NHLers. We need to be mindfull of long term aspirations of the club moving foward. Look at Bingo right now, not exactly the top tier team from last year

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02-04-2012, 11:05 PM
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Kuba's being re-signed, I just don't see it as a possibility that he doesn't. BM owes it to this group to add the peices to try and put them in the playoffs, provided the cost isn't too much. You're also ignoring the value that playing in high pressure games adds to our young guys. There's no substitute for the experience the next 27 games will bring and if we're on the winning end, it can only help development.

Bingo isn't succeeding because of the lack of veteran presence on the team. We lost all our key AHL guys from last year and replaced them mostly with first time pros. Our prospect pool is still one of the best in the league, and there should be 0 concern regarding it, regardless of how Bingo does.

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02-04-2012, 11:11 PM
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Kuba is the one good D we have alongside Karlsson, no way I'm trading him.

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02-04-2012, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Iamok View Post
Kuba's being re-signed, I just don't see it as a possibility that he doesn't. BM owes it to this group to add the peices to try and put them in the playoffs, provided the cost isn't too much. You're also ignoring the value that playing in high pressure games adds to our young guys. There's no substitute for the experience the next 27 games will bring and if we're on the winning end, it can only help development.

Bingo isn't succeeding because of the lack of veteran presence on the team. We lost all our key AHL guys from last year and replaced them mostly with first time pros. Our prospect pool is still one of the best in the league, and there should be 0 concern regarding it, regardless of how Bingo does.
Why? I think there is 9 games until the TD? If this team wins 3 games or less, Murray doesn't owe this group to add pieces. And why would Kuba be re-signed if they don't make the playoffs? Your plan is to go into next year with exactly the same defense? That's just a great way of staying mediocre.

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02-04-2012, 11:19 PM
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our D has to change somehow. something has gotta go. i could see carkner getting dealt for a lower pic to a team looking for a rough 7th D with playoff experience.

i like Lee so i hope we keep him as a 7th D.

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02-04-2012, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Iamok View Post
Kuba's being re-signed, I just don't see it as a possibility that he doesn't. BM owes it to this group to add the peices to try and put them in the playoffs, provided the cost isn't too much. You're also ignoring the value that playing in high pressure games adds to our young guys. There's no substitute for the experience the next 27 games will bring and if we're on the winning end, it can only help development.
Bingo isn't succeeding because of the lack of veteran presence on the team. We lost all our key AHL guys from last year and replaced them mostly with first time pros. Our prospect pool is still one of the best in the league, and there should be 0 concern regarding it, regardless of how Bingo does.
I fully understand this argument, if we do not have success in the next nine games and we become out of it would not be pressured games anymore. We have success IE: 3 of next 5 games then we should buy.

Look at the make-up of Bingo and the pieces that put us over the top with no more ties to the AHL affiliate. Colin Greening- 0 years AHL experience, Erik Condra- 0 Years AHL experience, Zack Smith- 2 years AHL/NHL experience, Daugavins-2 years. Butler- 0 years AHL experience.

I know we are missing Bass, Poltuny, etc. We have added though Parrish, Godfrey, Klinkhammer, and Conboy. To try and match some of the experience, but in my mind it was the work of our 1st year players which had put us over the top. I don't think the dramatic difference in performance can only be attributed to less veterans.


Last edited by Sens Mile: 02-04-2012 at 11:24 PM.
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02-04-2012, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Iamok View Post
Kuba's being re-signed, I just don't see it as a possibility that he doesn't. BM owes it to this group to add the peices to try and put them in the playoffs, provided the cost isn't too much. You're also ignoring the value that playing in high pressure games adds to our young guys. There's no substitute for the experience the next 27 games will bring and if we're on the winning end, it can only help development.

Bingo isn't succeeding because of the lack of veteran presence on the team. We lost all our key AHL guys from last year and replaced them mostly with first time pros. Our prospect pool is still one of the best in the league, and there should be 0 concern regarding it, regardless of how Bingo does.
If we fight to the last games and finish 9th this season was still a huge win! We are rebuilding with a roster full of young players. I agree we need to resign Kuba.

Bingo will be very good next year I think. Tim Murray needs to keep up adding vets to make Bingo good.. and the Big Sens will add some serious young talent next season.

If some team wants Lee, Carkner, Butler, Konopka... maybe we deal them... and add other bottom tier players at the deadline. Gonchar and Kuba are going no where. Unless someone wants to give up the farm for either... like sick overpayment that still helps us this season.

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02-04-2012, 11:31 PM
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Why? I think there is 9 games until the TD? If this team wins 3 games or less, Murray doesn't owe this group to add pieces. And why would Kuba be re-signed if they don't make the playoffs? Your plan is to go into next year with exactly the same defense? That's just a great way of staying mediocre.
Except Kuba has not been mediocre... he has been very good. Assuming we want to add a D-Man in the offseason... if we move Kuba we need to add two. Are we going to add two D-Men better then Kuba? Unlikely.

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02-04-2012, 11:33 PM
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I absolutely think it should remain a possibility if the next 9 games go poorly, especially now that the Pens realistically could be back to 100% by April.

This recent skid perhaps eliminates the possibility of making moves for UFAs to help improve the team. Murray might have his hands tied at the deadline and might have to remain idle with so many uncertainties.

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02-04-2012, 11:35 PM
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If we fight to the last games and finish 9th this season was still a huge win! We are rebuilding with a roster full of young players. I agree we need to resign Kuba.

Bingo will be very good next year I think. Tim Murray needs to keep up adding vets to make Bingo good.. and the Big Sens will add some serious young talent next season.

If some team wants Lee, Carkner, Butler, Konopka... maybe we deal them... and add other bottom tier players at the deadline. Gonchar and Kuba are going no where. Unless someone wants to give up the farm for either... like sick overpayment that still helps us this season.
oh wat... If we finish 9th without selling the older guys it will be a fail. And then you wanna bring back the same team next year, the same one that just failed... If we're not gonna make the playoffs, you sell everything you can that is not in the long term plans. That's Kuba, Gonchar, Carkner, Phillips, Lee, Konopka, Daugavins, Butler and even Spezza and Michalek for the right deals.

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02-04-2012, 11:37 PM
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Except Kuba has not been mediocre... he has been very good. Assuming we want to add a D-Man in the offseason... if we move Kuba we need to add two. Are we going to add two D-Men better then Kuba? Unlikely.
Trade him and hope to re-sign in the summer then. This is what a rebuild is, you trade your old players with expiring contracts for long term gain.

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02-04-2012, 11:53 PM
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oh wat... If we finish 9th without selling the older guys it will be a fail. And then you wanna bring back the same team next year, the same one that just failed... If we're not gonna make the playoffs, you sell everything you can that is not in the long term plans. That's Kuba, Gonchar, Carkner, Phillips, Lee, Konopka, Daugavins, Butler and even Spezza and Michalek for the right deals.
We were supposed to be 15th in the East... we started the season like crap. We finish 9th and get 90-94 points that is not a good season?

It is crazy you bring up selling Spezza and Michalek.. I almost find it retarded.

Most of those players you mentioned have little value.

I am not saying we will have the same team.. we have at least 2 rookie forwards pushing for top 9 spots next season. If we resign Kuba we are resigning our 2nd best defenceman and one of our best players.

How is this season a failure in a rebuild with the MASSIVE breakthroughs of Karlsson (best D-men in the NHL possibly), Cowen, Greening, Condra, Smith. Adding Turris who is awesome and young, Foligno breaking out finally. Michalek not being injured. Alfie, Gonchar, Kuba making HUGE comebacks from off seasons.

HUGE WIN season.. I think we finish 6th to 8th.. but if it is ninth.. and we get 90 points.... well still a huge win.

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02-04-2012, 11:57 PM
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Trade him and hope to re-sign in the summer then. This is what a rebuild is, you trade your old players with expiring contracts for long term gain.
That is asinine. It is not a rebuild it is a wish and a prayer. We have so many forward prospects it is sickening... we need defence. Kuba is our 2nd best defenceman and a top 4 on the best team in the NHL. Resigning him is smart and the rebuild is over.. it is now a retool. Rebuild over from 2011 trade deadline until now. Now it is retool.

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02-05-2012, 12:02 AM
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We were supposed to be 15th in the East... we started the season like crap. We finish 9th and get 90-94 points that is not a good season?
It is crazy you bring up selling Spezza and Michalek.. I almost find it retarded.

Most of those players you mentioned have little value.

I am not saying we will have the same team.. we have at least 2 rookie forwards pushing for top 9 spots next season. If we resign Kuba we are resigning our 2nd best defenceman and one of our best players.

How is this season a failure in a rebuild with the MASSIVE breakthroughs of Karlsson (best D-men in the NHL possibly), Cowen, Greening, Condra, Smith. Adding Turris who is awesome and young, Foligno breaking out finally. Michalek not being injured. Alfie, Gonchar, Kuba making HUGE comebacks from off seasons.

HUGE WIN season.. I think we finish 6th to 8th.. but if it is ninth.. and we get 90 points.... well still a huge win.
Would rather finish 11th with extra prospects

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02-05-2012, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
We were supposed to be 15th in the East... we started the season like crap. We finish 9th and get 90-94 points that is not a good season?

It is crazy you bring up selling Spezza and Michalek.. I almost find it retarded.

Most of those players you mentioned have little value.

I am not saying we will have the same team.. we have at least 2 rookie forwards pushing for top 9 spots next season. If we resign Kuba we are resigning our 2nd best defenceman and one of our best players.

How is this season a failure in a rebuild with the MASSIVE breakthroughs of Karlsson (best D-men in the NHL possibly), Cowen, Greening, Condra, Smith. Adding Turris who is awesome and young, Foligno breaking out finally. Michalek not being injured. Alfie, Gonchar, Kuba making HUGE comebacks from off seasons.

HUGE WIN season.. I think we finish 6th to 8th.. but if it is ninth.. and we get 90 points.... well still a huge win.
It would be fail because the team wouldn't be in the playoffs and the prospect pool won't really get better. If you're not in the playoffs, you didn't have a successful season. And it's sort of a wasted season if you don't pick top 5. Sure some young players improved and broke through, but hat doesn't mean you should keep Kuba and Gonchar past the TD.

Michalek is pretty much crap. He's a 2nd line winger at best and I have doubts he can consistently put 2nd line numbers for the remainder of his contract. And with the quality forward prospects, he is expendable. Spezza I said is only moved for a great deal. He has pretty much topped out, no room for improvement.

Yes a lot of those players have little value, but if you can get something, you do.

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02-05-2012, 12:06 AM
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That is asinine. It is not a rebuild it is a wish and a prayer. We have so many forward prospects it is sickening... we need defence. Kuba is our 2nd best defenceman and a top 4 on the best team in the NHL. Resigning him is smart and the rebuild is over.. it is now a retool. Rebuild over from 2011 trade deadline until now. Now it is retool.
No it's a little more than a retool Alfie Gonchar and Kuba probably have 1 more season left.

We need to replace them and i don't know how well that'll go.

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02-05-2012, 12:07 AM
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That is asinine. It is not a rebuild it is a wish and a prayer. We have so many forward prospects it is sickening... we need defence. Kuba is our 2nd best defenceman and a top 4 on the best team in the NHL. Resigning him is smart and the rebuild is over.. it is now a retool. Rebuild over from 2011 trade deadline until now. Now it is retool.
If Kuba can get a 2nd and the Sens are on the outside looking in at the TD, you do it. That 2nd can be very useful in moving up and grabbing a quality defender at the draft.

And it should be a rebuild if you don't wanna be mediocre for year to come.

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02-05-2012, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
It would be fail because the team wouldn't be in the playoffs and the prospect pool won't really get better. If you're not in the playoffs, you didn't have a successful season. And it's sort of a wasted season if you don't pick top 5. Sure some young players improved and broke through, but hat doesn't mean you should keep Kuba and Gonchar past the TD.

Michalek is pretty much crap. He's a 2nd line winger at best and I have doubts he can consistently put 2nd line numbers for the remainder of his contract. And with the quality forward prospects, he is expendable. Spezza I said is only moved for a great deal. He has pretty much topped out, no room for improvement.

Yes a lot of those players have little value, but if you can get something, you do.
Not a video game... reality. Spezza is topped out as a PPG centre. I'd trade him for a better player... wait... no one is trading him for a better player!

Michalek is not crap... he is a streaky goal scoring winger that is awesome defensively.... until he got injured he was leading the NHL in goals. He will likely always be streaky. We could trade him but are we going to get something better? Unlikely. That damn reality keeps coming into play.

We finish 9th and compete till the end then ALL the players get to experience a playoff push. Not a playoff appearance but at least a playoff push.. a race.. playoff hockey in the regular season. I think we make the playoffs but if we don't we will be close and have fought till near the end.

We have not improved the prospect pool? Really?

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02-05-2012, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
If Kuba can get a 2nd and the Sens are on the outside looking in at the TD, you do it. That 2nd can be very useful in moving up and grabbing a quality defender at the draft.

And it should be a rebuild if you don't wanna be mediocre for year to come.
2nd is crap for our 2nd best dman that plays 24 minutes a night!

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02-05-2012, 12:22 AM
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2nd is crap for our 2nd best dman that plays 24 minutes a night!
Though I don't necessarily agree with you on re-signing him, I agree with this sentiment. It would take a greater asset than a 2nd round pick to move Kuba. He's been great this year and would be a big pickup for any team.

I would be awesome if we could trade him for Calle Jarnkrok.

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02-05-2012, 12:25 AM
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sell what? Kuba for a 2nd? yay?!


we sold last year now we are building there isnt much to giveup

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02-05-2012, 12:28 AM
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Though I don't necessarily agree with you on re-signing him, I agree with this sentiment. It would take a greater asset than a 2nd round pick to move Kuba. He's been great this year and would be a big pickup for any team.

I would be awesome if we could trade him for Calle Jarnkrok.
I had to look up who that was!!!

I would be disappointed to trade Kuba even for a first round pick. If a team came forward and wanted to give up a blue chip prospect Murray has coveted... that is far closer to ready then a draft pick... then maybe....

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02-05-2012, 12:33 AM
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I had to look up who that was!!!

I would be disappointed to trade Kuba even for a first round pick. If a team came forward and wanted to give up a blue chip prospect Murray has coveted... that is far closer to ready then a draft pick... then maybe....
The important thing is to turn Kuba (and other older players and expiring contracts) into assets that go beyond this year. A 1st rounder would be just that and if I was Murray, that's my opening asking price. We can look for a young available player later on in the offseason. An extra 1st + at the draft can usually get you a good young player who's ready.

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