When was the last time that the next year's ASG site was announced during All-star weekend? Its not the NHL's way to "steal the spotlight", its professional courtesy, like not announcing big trades or coaching hires during the Finals.
To dismiss it totally is just naive, Viqsi.
By the same token, the 2012 NHL Draft wasn't announced as being in Pittsburgh until October of 2011. But both 2013 and 2014 were announced this past weekend.
Was it a conspiracy to upstage Pittsburgh? Was it a lack of professional courtesy? Or was it simply a good time to announce it?
And you don't see the likelihood that the announcement was timed to fit in with this? Considering we'd heard nothing of this happening until the middle of the week, after the protest had already been called?
I'm talking the last time it was announced on All-star weekend.
Indeed, simply a "good time to announce", I won't argue with that, considering what was going on
And you don't see the likelihood that the announcement was timed to fit in with this? Considering we'd heard nothing of this happening until the middle of the week, after the protest had already been called?
I'm talking the last time it was announced on All-star weekend.
Indeed, simply a "good time to announce", I won't argue with that, considering what was going on
Care to address my actual question?
If we start getting into the idea that there's a "conspiracy" to "upstage" certain things, then it stands to reason that the same thing was done intentionally over the draft weekend. We can totally ignore the fact that leagues are constantly changing announcements about future venues and when/where they'll be taking place.
Now, if you want me to go through the last 20 years of draft and All-Star Game announcements and find out exactly when they were announced, that's fine. Clearly I have nothing better to do. But if I go through and find that the league doesn't have a set pattern for when things are announced, or that other leagues poked around before finally settling on one thing, then I want it to be the end of this idea.
By the same token, the 2012 NHL Draft wasn't announced as being in Pittsburgh until October of 2011. But both 2013 and 2014 were announced this past weekend.
Was it a conspiracy to upstage Pittsburgh? Was it a lack of professional courtesy? Or was it simply a good time to announce it?
Never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy.
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“@Aportzline: RT @skeezer1212: @Aportzline are you on record about if you think they should trade Nash, *Carter? / Not my place. Reporter, not columnist.”
Agreed, I make a video or two a year, and that even seemed like too much work for a long time this season. I'm working on something now, but totally understand how apathy and frustration can destroy your desire to promote a team. Especially when you don't agree with the direction the team is taking the way LTL was.
Wish him the best, hope my mistake at the end of last season wasn't what pushed him over the edge. Still feel horrible about that.
Skraut, I'm sure that wasn't it at all. Last season wore on a lot of us.
The fact that we've got a poster on here dancing on the grave of LTL is disgusting. For those that don't remember, John's the guy that tackled the Wings fan who attempted to toss the octopus on our home ice. He and I have had disagreements over the year, but there is absolutely no doubting the man's passion about this team.
Ever time this team loses a guy like that, we are worse for it. Hopefully he's just taking a break and will get re-engaged in the future.
If we start getting into the idea that there's a "conspiracy" to "upstage" certain things, then it stands to reason that the same thing was done intentionally over the draft weekend. We can totally ignore the fact that leagues are constantly changing announcements about future venues and when/where they'll be taking place.
Now, if you want me to go through the last 20 years of draft and All-Star Game announcements and find out exactly when they were announced, that's fine. Clearly I have nothing better to do. But if I go through and find that the league doesn't have a set pattern for when things are announced, or that other leagues poked around before finally settling on one thing, then I want it to be the end of this idea.
I'll bend to your logic that the NHL has no set pattern when announcing these things, as I remember the last few announcements were not made on specific dates or around specific dates. However, I would still like somebody to provide me with what my initial query was, the last time the league announced the following seasons ASG site during the current AS weekend.
Here's what I'm going with as my answer: There was no conspiracy to upstage Ottawa as the host when announcing next years ASG venue as Nationwide (however, given by what I hear about teams not "upstaging" during other times of the league's calender year, i.e. playoffs or finals, this was disrepectful to Ottawa, even if it wasn't a big deal), however, given that the league has no precendents that I'm aware of for announcing future ASG sites on the weekend of the current one, and certainly since I don't remember hearing anything about Columbus being a serious contender until probably Thursday of that week (protest initially called for Monday or Tuesday by Capn) The announcement itself going out Saturday morning, just prior to the protest I think its easy to see smoke in this situation, even if the fire itself is small.
If someone can provide me a situation in which the next year's all star game was announced on the weekend of the current All stat weekend, I'll withdraw my point.
For what it's worth, I said it during the week of the announcement and I'll repeat it again, I had a discussion with an individual on Monday Jan. 23, the week of the announcement and protest. That person, who was in position to know, told me the ASG announcement was going to be that weekend and that Columbus was likely to be the pick (not definitely, but strong indications were in Columbus' favor).
That afternoon, the protest was discussed and began forming here on HF. I wasn't privvy to the protest planning prior to the discussions here on HF, so I don't know if LTL or others wrote about it prior to that Monday.
But I can absolutely confirm that the ASG annoucement as of the Monday morning of that week was already coming that weekend.
Mods can PM me for the source.
Did the protest influence Columbus getting the game in any way? I can't speak to that. I'm not trying to minimize the work other passionate fans put into that effort.
But on the matter of scheduling -- I can 100 percent tell you that was already locked down and that Columbus already had a pretty good shot.
I'll bend to your logic that the NHL has no set pattern when announcing these things, as I remember the last few announcements were not made on specific dates or around specific dates. However, I would still like somebody to provide me with what my initial query was, the last time the league announced the following seasons ASG site during the current AS weekend.
You're starting from the standpoint that the NHL does things in a logical manner and always has. I'll do the legwork to find out.
I don't agree that prior precedent is inherently meaningful. It's an announcement that needs no set time and place, not a binding legal matter where precedent means something.
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Here's what I'm going with as my answer: There was no conspiracy to upstage Ottawa as the host when announcing next years ASG venue as Nationwide (however, given by what I hear about teams not "upstaging" during other times of the league's calender year, i.e. playoffs or finals, this was disrepectful to Ottawa, even if it wasn't a big deal), however, given that the league has no precendents that I'm aware of for announcing future ASG sites on the weekend of the current one, and certainly since I don't remember hearing anything about Columbus being a serious contender until probably Thursday of that week (protest initially called for Monday or Tuesday by Capn) The announcement itself going out Saturday morning, just prior to the protest I think its easy to see smoke in this situation, even if the fire itself is small.
You're overlooking a major factor, and that is that the league has always been very tight-lipped about who contenders are for All-Star Games, drafts, and other events. The only things that we know of since Bettman took office is that San Jose lost it in 1995 due to the lockout (and then got it in 1997), Atlanta lost it in 2005 due to the second lockout (and then got it in 2008), that Phoenix was going to have it before their arena/lease issues came up, and that Vancouver had a different logo for 1998 that ended up being rejected.
Outside of these, in 20 years I don't recall hearing a single word about "other finalists" for any league event. And the only reason that these are even known is because three of them involved logos that were actually unveiled, and that the Phoenix situation has been hinted at repeatedly by the powers-that-be.
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If someone can provide me a situation in which the next year's all star game was announced on the weekend of the current All stat weekend, I'll withdraw my point.
I just gave you the draft announcements. Both the All-Star Game and the draft are major events for the league, and having both of them feature future announcements would seem to indicate that the league was readjusting the calendar for this type of thing. For all we know, this could have been decided a year or more ago, with timing that can be regarded as "inopportune".
Now, if you're suggesting that the league moved the All-Star announcement to quash a protest, and then moved future draft announcements in order to retroactively make it not look like that was what the original motive was, then I think we're dealing with the ultimate in cloak-and-dagger moves.
When was the last time that the next year's ASG site was announced during All-star weekend? Its not the NHL's way to "steal the spotlight", its professional courtesy, like not announcing big trades or coaching hires during the Finals.
To dismiss it totally is just naive, Viqsi.
And to believe the NHL gave a **** about your little gathering is just rediculous.
When was the last time that the next year's ASG site was announced during All-star weekend? Its not the NHL's way to "steal the spotlight", its professional courtesy, like not announcing big trades or coaching hires during the Finals.
To dismiss it totally is just naive, Viqsi.
Hon, I used to eat, sleep, breathe, and drink worthless conspiracy theories. I know 'em when I see 'em.
Most folks in the hockey world don't give a flying **** about Columbus. The protest would barely be a footnote - 200 self-proclaimed fans whining about a sucky team? Whatever. However, when that announcement comes out, people start paying more attention - and, oh look! There was a bunch of fans who protested that day. How about that.
One could thus argue that the ASG announcement got y'all more publicity. For the conspiracy-minded, it's a small step from there to "this was deliberate, the fans knew when the announcement was to be made and planned accordingly." Obviously this is not the case - none of us had a clue.
Claiming that it was actually the other way around - that the ASG announcement was timed for the protest - makes zero sense whatsoever, especially for the stated motivation of "drowning out the protesters" since it actually drew MORE attention to Columbus and thus to the cadre of whiners, and to suggest it speaks more to the incredible self-importance complex of several of those involved rather than any actual act on the part of the Jackets.
And I maintain that anyone who spreads that idea therefore cares less about the Blue Jackets and more about their own selfish desire to "be part of history by being the fans who stormed the Bastille Nat". I vociferously disagree with and am embarrassed by the folks who felt that a protest was necessary... but I unconditionally hate, without forgiveness or pity, anyone trying to build another 15 minutes of fame off of the Jackets' woes, and you may take that to be my final answer on the matter.
LTL tried that with his pushing of that conspiracy theory. So **** him.
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Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards
Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
You should go back and look at what I said when Hitchcock was fired. My response will be the same for Howson.
In other words: It clearly didn't work for him here. Hopefully he learns from the experience and is a better person for it. Moving on.
There is a difference between that and: Adios you worthless piece of crap!
But the subtlety is probably lost on you.
I don't recall seeing this at the time (and subsequent comments after his firing don't seem to have been along those lines ), but that's at least a position I can respect.
Now, if you're suggesting that the league moved the All-Star announcement to quash a protest, and then moved future draft announcements in order to retroactively make it not look like that was what the original motive was, then I think we're dealing with the ultimate in cloak-and-dagger moves.
Take the draft, Winter classic, etc out. I'm focused purely on the ASG and whether its announcement for the next year came during the weekend of the previous ASG. I understand that can be looked at as "the best time" but why was it the best time? Because the protest was going on? Because we had longtime STH'ers going on the local news, sports talk and other local radio to voice concerns? because we had the CBJ beat writers dropping gems like this?:
I understand there is no precedent for announcements, I will agree that releasing it on the ASG, with a fan protest going on was a good move, if only for the organization..... The announcement itself was timed perfectly, just a few hours before the start of the protest.
If they have no precendent for a date announcing this, why not choose to do it another time? They have literally months they could have waited if need be. Because, for the sake of the embattled organization, it made the most sense... I'm not disagreeing with you on that. The NHL could've release a press release stating Columbus is getting the ASG in 2013 on, lets say, Feburary 4th. The timing of the announcement was certainly a boon for an organization dealing with a fan protest, thats all.
You should go back and look at what I said when Hitchcock was fired. My response will be the same for Howson.
In other words: It clearly didn't work for him here. Hopefully he learns from the experience and is a better person for it. Moving on.
There is a difference between that and: Adios you worthless piece of crap!
But the subtlety is probably lost on you.
You know what I will take it back. Unlike some here you would handle Howson canning with more class then most. But I would not go as far to say that what has been posted here was grave dancing (unless I missed something). I wish there were more fans that would blog and support the team. It is a lot of work I know, even keeping up with my stupid little jersey site takes up more time then I really have.
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Originally Posted by Samkow
Might change my signature to this.
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington
heaven forbid you ever start a blog, then I guess we no longer have to consider you a "Troo" fan....
Yes, I finally made it to the "Troo" fan list.
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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe
For what it's worth, I said it during the week of the announcement and I'll repeat it again, I had a discussion with an individual on Monday Jan. 23, the week of the announcement and protest. That person, who was in position to know, told me the ASG announcement was going to be that weekend and that Columbus was likely to be the pick (not definitely, but strong indications were in Columbus' favor).
That afternoon, the protest was discussed and began forming here on HF. I wasn't privvy to the protest planning prior to the discussions here on HF, so I don't know if LTL or others wrote about it prior to that Monday.
But I can absolutely confirm that the ASG annoucement as of the Monday morning of that week was already coming that weekend.
Mods can PM me for the source.
Did the protest influence Columbus getting the game in any way? I can't speak to that. I'm not trying to minimize the work other passionate fans put into that effort.
But on the matter of scheduling -- I can 100 percent tell you that was already locked down and that Columbus already had a pretty good shot.
In light of this post I now have my own conspiracy theory. Kallio with his inside information tipped off Captain causing him to quickly schedule the protest on that very Saturday in order to upstage the ASG announcement.
I understand there is no precedent for announcements, I will agree that releasing it on the ASG, with a fan protest going on was a good move, if only for the organization..... The announcement itself was timed perfectly, just a few hours before the start of the protest.
The protest was timed perfectly - just a few hours after the announcement, just in time for folks to start looking at Columbus.
In light of this post I now have my own conspiracy theory. Kallio with his inside information tipped off Captain causing him to quickly schedule the protest on that very Saturday in order to upstage the ASG announcement.
In light of this post I now have my own conspiracy theory. Kallio with his inside information tipped off Captain causing him to quickly schedule the protest on that very Saturday in order to upstage the ASG announcement.
You caught us. Now I'm going to have to off every single one of you.
But, I will not dance on your graves when you are buried.
Claiming that it was actually the other way around - that the ASG announcement was timed for the protest - makes zero sense whatsoever, especially for the stated motivation of "drowning out the protesters" since it actually drew MORE attention to Columbus and thus to the cadre of whiners, and to suggest it speaks more to the incredible self-importance complex of several of those involved rather than any actual act on the part of the Jackets.
It seems to me that the announcement may have given pause to some that had been planning to partake in the protest/rally. It was, strategically, a brilliant move on the part of the organization, I won't deny that. They completed a deal that sent a wrinkle of reflection though the fanbase. I only wish such strategically sound moves were more towards icing a successful, sustainable product then trying to thin numbers by provide the "chance" at ASG tix (provided a lockout doesn't take this ASG like its taken the last one with a CBA expiration) along with "hot liquids".....
We've been over this V, we aren't going to see eye to eye on this. As I previously stated, I frequently butted heads with John (LTL, Top Shelf on here) on the boards here, I certainly understand your concerns about the direction LTL took in recent months.
Pride for your team is something nobody should have to wear as either a scarlet letter, or a noose around your neck. If we chose to look at everything purely objectively, we'd cease being fans.
In light of this post I now have my own conspiracy theory. Kallio with his inside information tipped off Captain causing him to quickly schedule the protest on that very Saturday in order to upstage the ASG announcement.
), but that's at least a position I can respect.
