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Frans Neilsen SIGNS EXTENSION **4 yrs, $11 Million**

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Old
02-07-2012, 11:02 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
Pap's value is at it's highest right now. He's probably the most attractive piece that Snow can peddle around the league. We need a defenseman in the worst possible way yesterday. Get on the phone Garth if you haven't already.
I have a feeling he's going to get extended as well.

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02-07-2012, 11:16 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Calvin De Haan Job View Post
I have a feeling he's going to get extended as well.
I wouldn't be too happy if he is. Now that Frans is locked up, we need to upgrade the wingers. I like Pap, he has really improved this year and I wanted him re-signed before tonight. Retaining both Frans and PA doesn't make too much sense to me. It's just continuing with something that just isn't working this season. If we really want to make the playoffs, the makeup of this team needs to be changed. If Snow really believes his mantra of building a long term contender then he knows what he needs to do. He better develop carpal tunnel from using his phone is what I'm saying.

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02-07-2012, 11:20 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Sheva7 View Post
Agreed.

But now that Franz is signed, I really think Snow is gonna try to move PAP. Our forward group really has to get bigger and badder.

That Neilsen, PAP, Grabs line hasn't been good at all. They're just a bad mix in my opinion. PAP and Grabner cant win a 50/50 board battle to save their life. If there is one line that can use a Ruutu type player, it's that one. Grabs' speed, Neilsen's smarts, and a Ruutu type players strength would make them a tough trio to play against that can score and defend.

I also believe that Josh Bailey isn't going anywhere as Snow and co. are committed to taking their time with him. And i agree with this... I like what I've seen from him this year. Sure some offence would be nice...but he's solid defensively and still very young. The guy just seems to get stuck playing with really crappy players (first comeau now rolston) which hasn't allowed him to make any progress. He has however, shown some chemistry with Martin who is only getting better. I'm hoping the two of them stick together and maybe Nino can get some time with them before the end of the year.

MM-JT-KO
MM-JB-NN
MG-FN- Ryan Clowe lol???
I'm about as big of a proponent for Bailey as there is on these boards, so you won't get an argument from me. I've consistently mentioned that keeping both Nielsen and PAP would be a mistake. So we're basically already talking in the same language. That said, I feel like PAP would have been better suited for the lineup slot I envision for either of them. (I'm about as big of a critic of PAP as there is on these boards, so should also say something.)

I think the issue with the above lineup, other than say swapping which side Martin and Nino play on, is the lack of proven goal scoring (and size) down the middle. We also lack at least one proven goal scoring winger. The above is asking a ton from Martin, Bailey and Nino. I'd rather reduce the pressure on Bailey and increase the amount of talent on the squad.

Moulson-JT-KO
Grabner-BigGoalScoringCenter-Nielsen/PAP (trades are still possible)
Nino-Bailey-Martin ("kid" line)
Insert-4th-Line

Improving anywhere in the top-6 is a huge plus. I wish we had a KO clone for the 2nd line with that missing big scoring center. As another option, we could get a playmaking center and legit power forward with a mean shot on the right side of the 2nd line.

I think it's pretty obvious that no matter what we need a top-6 forward with size who has proven they can score goals. Big plus if they are a center who can win faceoffs. Even bigger plus if they're not afraid of the front of the net or getting dirty in the corners when need be. (Nielsen stays back so much, if he's used as a playmaking winger, I'd expect the center to play more in the corners, Nielsen to stay high, and Grabner to put himself into shooting position or be the 2nd man in to a scrum with his stick.)

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Mitch

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02-07-2012, 11:28 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
I'm about as big of a proponent for Bailey as there is on these boards, so you won't get an argument from me. I've consistently mentioned that keeping both Nielsen and PAP would be a mistake. So we're basically already talking in the same language. That said, I feel like PAP would have been better suited for the lineup slot I envision for either of them. (I'm about as big of a critic of PAP as there is on these boards, so should also say something.)

I think the issue with the above lineup, other than say swapping which side Martin and Nino play on, is the lack of proven goal scoring (and size) down the middle. We also lack at least one proven goal scoring winger. The above is asking a ton from Martin, Bailey and Nino. I'd rather reduce the pressure on Bailey and increase the amount of talent on the squad.

Moulson-JT-KO
Grabner-BigGoalScoringCenter-Nielsen/PAP (trades are still possible)
Nino-Bailey-Martin ("kid" line)
Insert-4th-Line

Improving anywhere in the top-6 is a huge plus. I wish we had a KO clone for the 2nd line with that missing big scoring center. As another option, we could get a playmaking center and legit power forward with a mean shot on the right side of the 2nd line.

I think it's pretty obvious that no matter what we need a top-6 forward with size who has proven they can score goals. Big plus if they are a center who can win faceoffs. Even bigger plus if they're not afraid of the front of the net or getting dirty in the corners when need be. (Nielsen stays back so much, if he's used as a playmaking winger, I'd expect the center to play more in the corners, Nielsen to stay high, and Grabner to put himself into shooting position or be the 2nd man in to a scrum with his stick.)

,
Mitch
There is a big, scoring center that we may realistically acquire. His name is Mikhail Grigorenko. I'm just saying.

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02-07-2012, 11:37 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
There is a big, scoring center that we may realistically acquire. His name is Mikhail Grigorenko. I'm just saying.
Not sure what the reality of that looks like right now. If Hamonic was out for the season, I'd agree with this. If someone on the JT line goes down, I'd agree with this. If we trade away major bodies at the deadline, I'd agree with us having a chance to fall back down.

As of now, I doubt we're finishing in lottery land. However, our March schedule might do the trick and maybe we'll get lucky and win the lottery at the 5 position. I don't think it's possible for us to finish in the bottom 2 positions.

Regardless, there are far too many winnable games ahead of us until March. We just won a game that we had no right winning. If we can find ways to get points in games while we're depleted, it spells out good things ahead until March.

Let's revisit this question when we're one week into March and see what the team looks like. Even without any UFA/trade/lottery additions, we do have big bodies that can score coming in the pipeline anyways. 2-3 years of misery is all that can be left even if they add nothing to this team. With that said, we may not even be playing in Nassau by the time the slow rebuild completes. Let's hope they supplement the ****ing thing already.

I'm sick of waiting and it's far past time to advance the cause a little bit.

,
Mitch

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02-07-2012, 11:53 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
Not sure what the reality of that looks like right now. If Hamonic was out for the season, I'd agree with this. If someone on the JT line goes down, I'd agree with this. If we trade away major bodies at the deadline, I'd agree with us having a chance to fall back down.

As of now, I doubt we're finishing in lottery land. However, our March schedule might do the trick and maybe we'll get lucky and win the lottery at the 5 position. I don't think it's possible for us to finish in the bottom 2 positions.

Regardless, there are far too many winnable games ahead of us until March. We just won a game that we had no right winning. If we can find ways to get points in games while we're depleted, it spells out good things ahead until March.

Let's revisit this question when we're one week into March and see what the team looks like. Even without any UFA/trade/lottery additions, we do have big bodies that can score coming in the pipeline anyways. 2-3 years of misery is all that can be left even if they add nothing to this team. With that said, we may not even be playing in Nassau by the time the slow rebuild completes. Let's hope they supplement the ****ing thing already.

I'm sick of waiting and it's far past time to advance the cause a little bit.

,
Mitch
It's still too early to tell of course, but it is a real possibility. This team is tetering on the brink of becoming a lottery team again. Hamonic's injury for the next 2 weeks may lead to some big changes. If we go on an extended little slide, Paps and Nabokov could be as good as gone. Montoya has been a bit snakebitten this year and it could continue after Nabby is no longer here. If PA is gone, our offense could be even worse. Things could fall apart really quickly.

JT is the only reason why I don't think we'll get a shot at Grigorenko. I don't know, we could finish 6th or 7th and win the lottery. We're due to get lucky sometime. Grigorenko would look really good in an Isles uniform. This discussion is probably best served for the Draft Thread if continued, but I couldn't help myself.

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02-08-2012, 12:09 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
I wouldn't be too happy if he is. Now that Frans is locked up, we need to upgrade the wingers. I like Pap, he has really improved this year and I wanted him re-signed before tonight. Retaining both Frans and PA doesn't make too much sense to me. It's just continuing with something that just isn't working this season. If we really want to make the playoffs, the makeup of this team needs to be changed. If Snow really believes his mantra of building a long term contender then he knows what he needs to do. He better develop carpal tunnel from using his phone is what I'm saying.
As good as PA has been this season.. I too wouldn't be happy if he gets extended. I didn't mean I wanted him to be I just meant I had a feeling Garth was working towards extending him.

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02-08-2012, 12:50 AM
  #58
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oh no

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02-08-2012, 12:52 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
I wouldn't be too happy if he is. Now that Frans is locked up, we need to upgrade the wingers. I like Pap, he has really improved this year and I wanted him re-signed before tonight. Retaining both Frans and PA doesn't make too much sense to me. It's just continuing with something that just isn't working this season. If we really want to make the playoffs, the makeup of this team needs to be changed. If Snow really believes his mantra of building a long term contender then he knows what he needs to do. He better develop carpal tunnel from using his phone is what I'm saying.
Why in the world would you not want want to see Parenteau extended. Who in the world is going to replace his production? I can bet you anything in the world that Snow doesn't sign anyone in the off season that will produce what PA produces. Not extending him would be incredibly dumb

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02-08-2012, 01:20 AM
  #60
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Beautiful. Very pleased with this contract.

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As a 3rd line center I like it
as a 2nd line center I hate it.

Get this team a real 2nd line center.
That's exactly what I like about this contract. Number are fair for a higher end third liner, which means it doesn't hamper us from getting a 2nd line center. And if we can't, then Frans is still better than anyone currently on the team and is cheap for 2nd line center.

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02-08-2012, 01:35 AM
  #61
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oh no
Oh yes!

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02-08-2012, 02:22 AM
  #62
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Why in the world would you not want want to see Parenteau extended. Who in the world is going to replace his production? I can bet you anything in the world that Snow doesn't sign anyone in the off season that will produce what PA produces. Not extending him would be incredibly dumb
You're exactly right. What I don't understand is that people are finding so many flaws in PAP that they're overlooking the fact that Claude Giroux is the only winger who has more assists than PAP. Guys like Rick Nash and the Anaheim trio aren't bringing that ability to the table. The other night it was PAP's passes that set up the goals to beat Ottawa, and he didn't do it with JT's help, it was his on ice vision that created the plays. PAP has the same amount of points as Parise and will cost half as much.

Everyone needs to learn from the Blake Comeau scenario. I agree that he had to be traded because he was probably poisoning the lockerroom but the bottom line is despite his flaws, the 24 goals that he scored last year were replaced by 4 by Rolston and 1 by Nino. Comeau was our secondary scoring and proof that not everyone puts up numbers.

PAP improved his game more then anyone other then JT and it would convey the wrong message to his teammates to not extend him. The bottom line is that Wallace, Reasoner, Rolston and Pandolfo have many more flaws than PAP and should be replaced first. In addition Rakh and Nino have shown nothing to lead us to believe that they can produce on the NHL level at this time.


Last edited by original islander: 02-08-2012 at 02:27 AM. Reason: spelling
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02-08-2012, 02:32 AM
  #63
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Very good signing. He's a very good 3rd line center, and provides the team with good PKing. I'm glad that he wanted to stay with the team for that long. Seems like this group of players actually want to be here...which I must admit is nice to see. 2.75 is a decent hit-a little under market value. And hey what's the point in having tons of cap space if you never use it? I don't see the minus of this signing yet.

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02-08-2012, 03:45 AM
  #64
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Great signing. He wins faceoffs scores points a good second line center to complement Grabner and Okposo.

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02-08-2012, 06:07 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
Frans is a solid 2-way guy. Around .5ppg and very responsible. A team friendly deal if you ask me. When a guy like Bergie got much more in Fla, you know Nielsen couldve capitalized as a UFA but I recall him saying he wanted to stay on the Island and was only looking for around 2.5-2.75mil bc that's what he felt he was worth. Excellent news.
Great post. Some posters mainly on the main board just doesn't understand that sometimes there is value in other things than money - rambling about that he should fire his agent.

Now could fans please show him the respect of learning to spell his freak*** name? His been playing almost 400 games for your organization and been there for six years now. It's NIELSEN. Not Neilsen, Neilson, Nilsson - it's N-i-e-l-s-e-n! How difficuelt can it be?? It's not like you just signed Paul Szczechura...

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02-08-2012, 06:22 AM
  #66
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Personally...

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I don't get it..I was expecting people to be upset because we didn't trade him. Almost everyone was against Frans..I'm fine with him.
Personally im never for or against any player. Having said that lets trade pa

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02-08-2012, 06:24 AM
  #67
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we are sooooo far under the cap (when you subtract rolston and dp) that any signing is a good signing. what makes this one particularly good is that it seems like a fair deal. meaning, if we need to move fn to upgrade, another team won't balk. i'm for keeping him as a 3rd line center myself. i believe garth's goal is to build one awesome line and then three equally strong lines that can be rolled with impunity. we're quite a ways from that.

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02-08-2012, 07:07 AM
  #68
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You're exactly right. What I don't understand is that people are finding so many flaws in PAP that they're overlooking the fact that Claude Giroux is the only winger who has more assists than PAP. Guys like Rick Nash and the Anaheim trio aren't bringing that ability to the table. The other night it was PAP's passes that set up the goals to beat Ottawa, and he didn't do it with JT's help, it was his on ice vision that created the plays. PAP has the same amount of points as Parise and will cost half as much.

Everyone needs to learn from the Blake Comeau scenario. I agree that he had to be traded because he was probably poisoning the lockerroom but the bottom line is despite his flaws, the 24 goals that he scored last year were replaced by 4 by Rolston and 1 by Nino. Comeau was our secondary scoring and proof that not everyone puts up numbers.

PAP improved his game more then anyone other then JT and it would convey the wrong message to his teammates to not extend him. The bottom line is that Wallace, Reasoner, Rolston and Pandolfo have many more flaws than PAP and should be replaced first. In addition Rakh and Nino have shown nothing to lead us to believe that they can produce on the NHL level at this time.
Seriously? I thought Rakh has played great so far. What has he done wrong?

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02-08-2012, 08:47 AM
  #69
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Seriously? I thought Rakh has played great so far. What has he done wrong?
He has looked reasonably good, but he really has not done much yet. He could be the next Mark Hamway...good in college...good in the minors...not much at the NHL level. I don't know if he has done anything wrong per se, but I'd like to see some scoring first before I say I'm happy he is in the line up. Still, glad he's there over Rolston...but there is no way he stays up without producing something.

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02-08-2012, 09:11 AM
  #70
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He has looked reasonably good, but he really has not done much yet. He could be the next Mark Hamway...good in college...good in the minors...not much at the NHL level. I don't know if he has done anything wrong per se, but I'd like to see some scoring first before I say I'm happy he is in the line up. Still, glad he's there over Rolston...but there is no way he stays up without producing something.
1) Who replaces him?
2) Can we give him more then 4 games and 45 mins +/- before we condemn him?

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02-08-2012, 09:48 AM
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Not a bad deal, I am very concerned though with the fact that we are bringing back Tavares-Nielsen-Bailey down the middle next year.
Bailey has only one year left on his deal, is still RFA after it expires and could be moved if the team upgrades during the offseason. I suppose they can always try Bailey at wing again, but he's looked much better since returing to center. Franz's deal is also very cap friendly and would be extremely moveable if they need to free up a roster spot in a season or so.

I think Snow feels that Bailey will continue to improve and that there probably won't be an upgrade in the Top 6 during the offseason (due to lack of interest from UFA's or Wang's budget, you decide). Therefore, continuity and not scrambling to meet the cap floor is the name of the game. Bailey and Nielsen can always swap lines if the former does indeed step up his game. Will it pan out like this? I have no idea, but I think we're going to see largely the same roster as this year (to at least start the season).

And yes, Franz's deal expires along with Moulson's, Okposo's and Grabner's. Once again, almost proof positive that Wang is jumping ship if the Isles don't have a deal in place in Nassau County when the lease expires. A low payroll will be something that is very attractive to a prospective buyer.

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What a nice day. New Van Halen album kicks ass, Frans resigns for a good deal and the Isles shut out Philly in Philly. Sweet!
Holy ****, does it ever! I played it twice yesterday and I'm listening to it again right now!

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02-08-2012, 11:20 AM
  #72
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There is a big, scoring center that we may realistically acquire. His name is Mikhail Grigorenko. I'm just saying.
Brock Nelson???

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02-08-2012, 11:44 AM
  #73
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I wouldn't be too happy if he is. Now that Frans is locked up, we need to upgrade the wingers. I like Pap, he has really improved this year and I wanted him re-signed before tonight. Retaining both Frans and PA doesn't make too much sense to me. It's just continuing with something that just isn't working this season. If we really want to make the playoffs, the makeup of this team needs to be changed. If Snow really believes his mantra of building a long term contender then he knows what he needs to do. He better develop carpal tunnel from using his phone is what I'm saying.
But neither PAP or Nielsen are the problem.

The problem is simple. Too many players are playing on roles not suited for them. And now that PAP is on the 2nd line I feel that he is right where he should be. The way I see it, this club has 5 players in their top 9 playing where they should be (JT, Moulson*, PAP, Martin, Bailey) Everyone else is out of position IMO

Moulson - Tavares - 1st line RW
PAP - 2nd line center - Okposo
Bailey/Grabner - Frans - Martin
the rest

That is what the forward corps is missing. a true 1st line winger (and honestly I say *Moulson is a 2nd liner too despite his goal scoring) and a 2nd line center.

Do Nino & Strome fit those 2 holes? Possibly, but it's very doubtful they'll fill them next season. Frankly both should be in the AHL (or if Strome isn't eligible then Juniors) Does Petrov fill that hole? Probably not as he's more of a 2nd line type. Kabanov? Possibly, but again he won't be ready.

Part of the problem is they were too aggressive with Grabner. They gave him his 5 year deal too soon. They should have done just what they did with Moulson & give him a short 1 year deal to prove it wasn't a fluke & then resign him long term.

This club can't go into 2012-13 with more or less the same top 9 plus a rookie or 2.

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02-08-2012, 12:06 PM
  #74
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But neither PAP or Nielsen are the problem.

The problem is simple. Too many players are playing on roles not suited for them. And now that PAP is on the 2nd line I feel that he is right where he should be. The way I see it, this club has 5 players in their top 9 playing where they should be (JT, Moulson*, PAP, Martin, Bailey) Everyone else is out of position IMO

Moulson - Tavares - 1st line RW
PAP - 2nd line center - Okposo
Bailey/Grabner - Frans - Martin
the rest

That is what the forward corps is missing. a true 1st line winger (and honestly I say *Moulson is a 2nd liner too despite his goal scoring) and a 2nd line center.

Do Nino & Strome fit those 2 holes? Possibly, but it's very doubtful they'll fill them next season. Frankly both should be in the AHL (or if Strome isn't eligible then Juniors) Does Petrov fill that hole? Probably not as he's more of a 2nd line type. Kabanov? Possibly, but again he won't be ready.

Part of the problem is they were too aggressive with Grabner. They gave him his 5 year deal too soon. They should have done just what they did with Moulson & give him a short 1 year deal to prove it wasn't a fluke & then resign him long term.

This club can't go into 2012-13 with more or less the same top 9 plus a rookie or 2.
That's a great point and spot on. That's probably what I was trying to get at, but not smart enough to express.

If we come back next year with essentially the same personnel for the top lines, we are going to be in the same exact situation we are now. Our defense is more worrisome and needs to be addressed. That's why I want Paps traded and not for a draft pick, we've had enough of those. We need that mythical defenseman more than ever now.

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02-08-2012, 12:07 PM
  #75
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That's a great point and spot on. That's probably what I was trying to get at, but not smart enough to express.

If we come back next year with essentially the same personnel for the top lines, we are going to be in the same exact situation we are now. Our defense is more worrisome and needs to be addressed. That's why I want Paps traded and not for a draft pick, we've had enough of those. We need that mythical defenseman more than ever now.
We need Suter

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