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Old
02-08-2012, 06:25 AM
  #1
ScotAv
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My Take

It's been a while since I've posted. University makes things much harder. Have been keeping up with games as much as possible, just wanted to share my thoughts on the team currently and see what everyone thinks;

Fighting for a playoff spot is what I'd expected. The fact we've hung in there given Duchenes slow start and injury is good as well, we need to know we can play without him. I thought we'd be close but ultimately miss the playoffs which looks like the way it's going.

Johnson has shown, at times, that he is the all-encompassing force that led to him being drafted at #1 overall. He is prone to a mistake or 2 and it does sometimes look like he's treading treacle when moving in the defensive zone. Pleased with him in general though.

Ryan O'Reilly. Wow. Been our best player more or less the whole season. Steal doesn't even cover that draft pick. Name him Captain is Hedjuk retires? Hedjuk can still contribute but I think he might pack it in.

Landeskog. Glad we drafted him. Doesn't ooze the skill that perhaps the other top picks do but he makes up for it in work ethic, an infectious work ethic. Has been our best player on several occasssions, so much so that I find myself going "of course" when i rewind the game back to see who made the hit or hustled like hell and it turns out to be him. Got some points in him too. As for those whinging about his terribe shot; he's 19. He probably knows it not great, his work ethic will probably cause it to be one of his main focuses this offseason. I don't doubt that it will improve. I hope he's here for years.

Elliott has shown that he, with a bit of fine-tuning still left to do, is going to be a good 3-4 defenseman. Barrie, too early to tell in the NHL but was lighting it up in the AHL, good signs all round on D.

Jones has regressed terribly. If we can get something for him then I'd be okay with it but I'm not overly bothered about him staying.

Stastny has been okay, not the totals we would expect or want but okay. Needed more from him though. Especially with Duchene out. But I suppose he now has 11 points in his last 10 or something now.

Delighted to see Mueller back and scoring, can't wait to see him and Duchene together again.


The biggest problem? Sacco. I understand that the team made the playoffs before under him, but at times they just look lost out there. I don't think he inspires confidence, I don't think he's got a plan B and I think that the fact that our division has us COMPLETELY sussed highlights a problem with the coaching. He should be getting the players fired up for the games but they seem to be coming out flat a lot. I know that isn't just strictly a coaches problem but it does raise more questions. The non-existent goalie coach, especially with one as young and talented as Varly, seems odd to me too. With Randy Carlyle still looking for work, I wouldn't be too upset to see him brought in to replace Sacco. NOT saying I believe Sacco should go, just that it should really be considered.

What'd you think?

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02-08-2012, 07:32 AM
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RTN
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Just to comment on one of your points, I don't think we should trade Jones with his value being so low. Better to hold on to him and hope he improves next year.

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02-08-2012, 09:11 AM
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Razor29
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Yeah, if Sacco allows it, Jones can play well with Stastny and Hejduk. Which means after 1 bad game, don't demote him to the 4th line to rot for half the year.

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02-08-2012, 01:44 PM
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Jaymond Flurrie
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Originally Posted by RTN View Post
Just to comment on one of your points, I don't think we should trade Jones with his value being so low. Better to hold on to him and hope he improves next year.
Did you forget that Jones doesn't have a contract with Avs for next year or did you take it as given that he re-signs?

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Old
02-08-2012, 04:06 PM
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IWantSakicAsMyGM
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Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie View Post
Did you forget that Jones doesn't have a contract with Avs for next year or did you take it as given that he re-signs?
With his value currently being probably a 4th or later, there really isn't that much of a risk if they want to try to resign him. If he leaves, they would have lost out on a player that probably wouldn't make the NHL anyway.

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02-08-2012, 04:20 PM
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Jaymond Flurrie
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Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
If he leaves, they would have lost out on a player that probably wouldn't make the NHL anyway.
Are you saying that none of the 29 teams would sign Jones?

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02-08-2012, 04:25 PM
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agentblack
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I dont get the hate with Jones, he plays with guys like Mcrib and winnik and people complain he isnt getting 2 or 3 goals a game, yet when has scored, who is he out there with? Stastny. He gets scratched in favor or Porter, comes back and scores, who is he with? Not Porter or even Duchene but Paul. I think we'll regret dealing him away

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02-08-2012, 07:04 PM
  #8
TatteredTornNFrayed
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I dont get the hate with Jones, he plays with guys like Mcrib and winnik and people complain he isnt getting 2 or 3 goals a game, yet when has scored, who is he out there with? Stastny. He gets scratched in favor or Porter, comes back and scores, who is he with? Not Porter or even Duchene but Paul. I think we'll regret dealing him away
I don't get it either. Jones has been in the press box multiple times, and often getting the linemates and ice time of a 3rd liner, and people are dissapointed he's not scoring as much as last year. Go figure. Not surprising he's scoring like a 3rd-liner, when he's been used like a 3rd liner.

Interestingly, even depsite Jones off year, and significant time with bottom-6 linemates, Jones is still scoring more goals per game than anyone on the team but Mueller and Duchene.

And if you take goals scored per minute of Time-On-Ice, in non-PK situations, its even more noticeable, and Jones is slightly ahead of Duchene, and behind only Mueller in goals/minute in ES+PP.

Compared to our 1st line, he's scoring 27% more goals than O'Reilly, 40% more goals than Landeskog, and 50% more goals than Hejduk, on a per minute basis of even-strength or power-play situations. If you compare to him to someone like Dan Winnik, it gets laughable. Jones is scoring 370% as many goals per non-SH minute as Winnik, who has more than twice as many shots as Jones, and who spent well over half the games in a top-6 role with either ROR or Stastny.

Jones has never gotten a lot of assists, and he's not as good defensively as most of the others. But he's always been a good goal scorer, and we really need goal scorers. At the moment, we seem to have plenty of hard working guys who can play defense and shoot a lot without putting it in the net. Jones can at least put it in the net, when given a chance for more than 2 games at a time before being yanked around some more.


Last edited by TatteredTornNFrayed: 02-08-2012 at 07:10 PM.
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Old
02-08-2012, 07:12 PM
  #9
Jaymond Flurrie
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Originally Posted by TatteredTornNFrayed View Post
I don't get it either. Jones has been in the press box multiple times, and often getting the linemates and ice time of a 3rd liner, and people are dissapointed he's not scoring as much as last year. Go figure. Not surprising he's scoring like a 3rd-liner, when he's been used like a 3rd liner.

Interestingly, even depsite Jones off year, and significant time with bottom-6 linemates, Jones is still scoring more goals per game than anyone on the team but Mueller and Duchene.

And if you take goals scored per minute of Time-On-Ice, in non-PK situations, its even more noticeable, and Jones is slightly ahead of Duchene, and behind only Mueller in goals/minute in ES+PP.

Compared to our 1st line, he's scoring 27% more goals than O'Reilly, 40% more goals than Landeskog, and 50% more goals than Hejduk, on a per minute basis of even-strength or power-play situations. If you compare to him to someone like Dan Winnik, it gets laughable. Jones is scoring 370% as many goals per non-SH minute as Winnik, who has more than twice as many shots as Jones, and who spent well over half the games in a top-6 role with either ROR or Stastny.

Jones has never gotten a lot of assists, and he's not as good defensively as most of the others. But he's always been a good goal scorer, and we really need goal scorers. At the moment, we seem to have plenty of hard working guys who can play defense and shoot a lot without putting it in the net. Jones can at least put it in the net, when given a chance for more than 2 games at a time before being yanked around some more.
I wonder if Jones-Duchene-Mueller line would work. It sound more than extremely fragile, but still, it might be worth of trying.

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02-08-2012, 09:07 PM
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I wonder if Jones-Duchene-Mueller line would work.
Why put (arguably) the two best scorers on the roster with a center who acts as if his linemates don't exist?

I get that you have an irrational hatred for Statsny. That said, those two wingers both clearly play better with him because he gets them the puck.

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02-08-2012, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Sakic View Post
Yeah, if Sacco allows it, Jones can play well with Stastny and Hejduk. Which means after 1 bad game, don't demote him to the 4th line to rot for half the year.
How else will Kobasew and Porter see top-6 ice time???

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02-08-2012, 09:45 PM
  #12
RTN
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Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie View Post
Did you forget that Jones doesn't have a contract with Avs for next year or did you take it as given that he re-signs?
I was assuming he resigns. With all the 1 and 2 years deals the Avs seem to give out, I just assume players are becoming RFA/UFA at the end of the season.

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02-08-2012, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jwolbach View Post
Why put (arguably) the two best scorers on the roster with a center who acts as if his linemates don't exist?

I get that you have an irrational hatred for Statsny. That said, those two wingers both clearly play better with him because he gets them the puck.
Not true mules played great with duchene granted its been awhile and duchene is hurt. We can't say that mules plays better with stastny then duchene till we actually see if this year.

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02-09-2012, 07:44 AM
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Jaymond Flurrie
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I get that you have an irrational hatred for Statsny.
Speaking of irrational: No chance that you would base this on something?


Last edited by Jaymond Flurrie: 02-09-2012 at 08:12 AM.
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02-09-2012, 09:02 AM
  #15
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Hejduk needs to stay with Stastny or Duchene. He doesnt work with O'Reilly.

Aside from that let the mixing and matchin' begin.

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02-09-2012, 09:09 AM
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I like all your points. On a side note, people are hating and Landos shot? I have seen him unload a few cannons. Shot looks fine to me.

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02-09-2012, 09:36 AM
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JF has a irrational hate for all things beautiful like Sweeds and Stastny.



look at that toothless SOB!

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Old
02-09-2012, 05:18 PM
  #18
IWantSakicAsMyGM
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Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie View Post
Are you saying that none of the 29 teams would sign Jones?
No, I'm saying that if trading him only returns a 4th round pick, then him signing with another team is really a net loss of a 4th round pick.

How many 4th round picks become stars in the NHL? Less than 1%? How many become solid NHL players? Less than 10%? I'd rather keep a guy that is a known, if inconsistent, commodity, rather than trade him for a 10% chance of getting someone serviceable and a minescule chance at a Luc Robitaille/Brett Hull/etc.

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02-09-2012, 05:32 PM
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The Kingslayer
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Originally Posted by agentblack View Post
I dont get the hate with Jones, he plays with guys like Mcrib and winnik and people complain he isnt getting 2 or 3 goals a game, yet when has scored, who is he out there with? Stastny. He gets scratched in favor or Porter, comes back and scores, who is he with? Not Porter or even Duchene but Paul. I think we'll regret dealing him away
Think how much better he would be if he put down the Dos equis before games.


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02-10-2012, 02:14 AM
  #20
ScotAv
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What are the chances that Jones stays on a 1-year deal? For a reasonable amount? I'm genuinely curious, cos he'll point to the 27 goals last year and say he had a down year this year with the team having a "down" year and that was the reason he didn't get as many.

I dunno what I do, but I don't think I'd trade him to be honest. Even if he doesn't resign, the 4th or maybe 3rd we could squeeze would probably not be worth it.

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02-10-2012, 08:26 AM
  #21
Bender
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Originally Posted by ScotAv View Post
What are the chances that Jones stays on a 1-year deal? For a reasonable amount? I'm genuinely curious, cos he'll point to the 27 goals last year and say he had a down year this year with the team having a "down" year and that was the reason he didn't get as many.

I dunno what I do, but I don't think I'd trade him to be honest. Even if he doesn't resign, the 4th or maybe 3rd we could squeeze would probably not be worth it.
I don't think you make that trade unless you can snag a 2nd round pick in my opinion. I don't think that would be too hard to get though, especially if the Hurricanes re-sign Ruutu, it will be a sellers market.

Might be able to get like a 2nd and a 4th or 5th kinda like Hal Gill returned a few years ago.

I like Jones, especially the way he played last game, you could tell he was driving real hard to the net but we haven't seen that as much this year. The problem is that even if we could use his goal-scoring down the stretch, when Duchene comes back, he's going to be back down the depth chart and he's certainly NOT as effective on the bottom 2 lines.

The Avs have to know that there are teams out there that are certainly going to give this guy an opportunity come July 1st. I can't see a 1 year deal being worked out either. Other teams will probably be prepared to offer more than the Avs will, just my opinion.

If they can somehow recuperate some draft picks in order to make the Varly deal 'sting a bit less' in terms of the high picks that we gave up, then I got no real problem with that. We've got excellent scouts, we got help them out and give them something to work with.

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