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ATD 2012 - Draft Thread IV

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Old
02-10-2012, 11:43 AM
  #251
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
The Minnesota Fighting Saints are pleased to select 249th overall, from Sept-Iles Quebec, Guy Carbonneau, C
I usually don't draft third liners this early, but Carbs would be awfully tempting. He's another one of those guys in the conversation for best defensive forward of all time.

With his lack of offense, he's definitely a third liner in this though.

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02-10-2012, 11:44 AM
  #252
Nalyd Psycho
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I usually don't draft third liners this early, but Carbs would be awfully tempting. He's another one of those guys in the conversation for best defensive forward of all time.

With his lack of offense, he's definitely a third liner in this though.
Normally I don't get great third liners because, yeah, don't want to draft them too early. But Guy slipped and I have a complete 1st line and 2/3rds of a second line. So why not get the not spoken of previously undrafted that is in the Nighbor, Clarke, Gainey range.

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02-10-2012, 11:45 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Are your vs 2 numbers an attempt to compare him across all leagues or just to the WCHL?

His scoring line from the Hockey Compendium makes him look like a very balanced scorer, which is I think what we decided on in the last ATD (which led poor jarek to drafting a "playmaking right wing" only to be told that wing was really a center).
It's straight league he was in, but combined for career. His assist rating was higher than his goal rating in the NHL and WCHL, but lower in the NHA.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=18977636&postcount=22

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Old
02-10-2012, 12:25 PM
  #254
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LL, it really isn't fair to other GMs who have missed their clocks if you don't get a time deduction when they do. But since you seem to have unusual circumstances (your computer broke and you only barely missed your clock this time), it's fine with me if we remove your 1 hour earned deduction this time, on the condition that you go right to -2 if you miss your clock again (which is what it would be anyway if we gave you -1 right now).

Is this okay with everyone? I remember my computer breaking in the middle of ATD2011 and it wasn't easy.

In the future, leave a list and this won't be an issue.

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02-10-2012, 12:27 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Might as well send it to Stoneberg and me - we already have MadArcand's

Edit: I assume this is already with your, stone, sorry to volunteer your services
Yeah, feel free to send any lists before pick 261 (my own) my way for the next little while. Work tomorrow is keeping me from getting too drunk or going anywhere tonight anyway.

Edit: I'm fine with waiving LL's reduction.

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02-10-2012, 12:27 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
LL, it really isn't fair to other GMs who have missed their clocks if you don't get a time deduction when they do. But since you seem to have unusual circumstances (your computer broke and you only barely missed your clock this time), it's fine with me if we remove your 1 hour earned deduction this time, on the condition that you go right to -2 if you miss your clock again (which is what it would be anyway if we gave you -1 right now).

Is this okay with everyone? I remember my computer breaking in the middle of ATD2011 and it wasn't easy.

In the future, leave a list and this won't be an issue.
Fine with me

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Old
02-10-2012, 12:29 PM
  #257
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papershoes select:

frank mcgee (c)
mike grant (d)

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02-10-2012, 12:30 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
papershoes select:

frank mcgee (c)
mike grant (d)
one might be legitimately the best player of their era. the other is very overrated. Which is which?

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02-10-2012, 12:31 PM
  #259
Nalyd Psycho
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The Minnesota Fighting Saints are pleased to select 252nd overall, from Sterling Heights Michigan, Derian Hatcher, D

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02-10-2012, 12:32 PM
  #260
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
The Minnesota Fighting Saints are pleased to select 252nd overall, from Sterling Heights Michigan, Derian Hatcher, D
Good pick. Sometimes I wonder if guys like Harvey Pulford and Lionel Hitchman were actually any better than big Derian Hatcher.

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02-10-2012, 12:32 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
The Minnesota Fighting Saints are pleased to select 252nd overall, from Sterling Heights Michigan, Derian Hatcher, D
always liked Hatcher

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02-10-2012, 12:34 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
one might be legitimately the best player of their era. the other is very overrated. Which is which?
They both have a case for best of their era, but I assume you mean McGee is overrated since he only played 3 seasons. And yeah, McGee only has a case for best of his era if you ignore longevity, since there is little reason to think he was any more or less dominant than Russell Bowie or Hod Stuart or Tommy Phillips when he did play.

I think this is a good spot for McGee - for the first time, he goes under all 3 of them like he should.

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02-10-2012, 12:34 PM
  #263
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MadArcand selects Kevin Stevens, LW.

Back to another pick for papershoes I believe.

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02-10-2012, 12:35 PM
  #264
Nalyd Psycho
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Good pick. Sometimes I wonder if guys like Harvey Pulford and Lionel Hitchman were actually better than big Derian Hatcher.
When EB said Wentworth was the best defensive defenceman available, I bristled, thinking Hatcher easily could claim that title. People remember his plodding latter years (Where he was still arguably the best penalty killer in the NHL.) and forget how impossing he was when he had mobility.

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02-10-2012, 12:37 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
When EB said Wentworth was the best defensive defenceman available, I bristled, thinking Hatcher easily could claim that title. People remember his plodding latter years (Where he was still arguably the best penalty killer in the NHL.) and forget how impossing he was when he had mobility.
I thought there were several guys who could have made that claim when Wentworth was taken, and Hatcher is one.

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02-10-2012, 12:37 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Good pick. Sometimes I wonder if guys like Harvey Pulford and Lionel Hitchman were actually any better than big Derian Hatcher.
Hatcher played in the perfect era for him though , but yeah he was great in this era for sure

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02-10-2012, 12:40 PM
  #267
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papershoes select

john tonelli (lw)

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02-10-2012, 12:41 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Hatcher played in the perfect era for him though , but yeah he was great in this era for sure
Did Harvey Pulford and Lionel Hitchman not play in the perfect era for them? I would imagine that not having to defend against or make a forward pass would be even more favorable for defensive defensemen with weak puck skills than the Dead Puck era of a decade ago.

(Hitchman was a 2nd Team All Star once after the forward pass was allowed though).

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02-10-2012, 12:42 PM
  #269
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I can handle that ty my browing is limited I do need help with who is on the clock when it is close to my picks.

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02-10-2012, 12:42 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
They both have a case for best of their era, but I assume you mean McGee is overrated since he only played 3 seasons. And yeah, McGee only has a case for best of his era if you ignore longevity, since there is little reason to think he was any more or less dominant than Russell Bowie or Hod Stuart or Tommy Phillips when he did play.

I think this is a good spot for McGee - for the first time, he goes under all 3 of them like he should.
it was 4 years, but yeah, only three of them were in the best league.

even if you ignore longevity, he doesn't have the peak they had. I'd put four years by any of those guys up against his 4 years.

He was 2nd, 3rd, and 6th in scoring in his 3 years in the top league. In the FAHL he tied for the scoring lead, with a guy who is still a couple hundred picks away. that's not dominant. There are a dozen guys who Dreakmur might champion as possible late gems with more dominant offensive records than that. (and probably a handful who Iain Fyffe might champion on his blog as potential HHOFers)

He built his legend scoring playoff goals but the majority of those were scored in easy games against bad teams.

We also don't really have a great sense of his worth as an all-around player. I don't really care that he had an animal rhythym.

also, if you're so sure those three should be taken before him, then you don't think he has much of a case as the best of his era.

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02-10-2012, 12:43 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Did Harvey Pulford and Lionel Hitchman not play in the perfect era for them? I would imagine that not having to defend against or make a forward pass would be even more favorable for defensive defensemen with weak puck skills than the Dead Puck era of a decade ago.

(Hitchman was a 2nd Team All Star once after the forward pass was allowed though).
yeah probably , anyway I'm a big Hatcher fan , and god knows my heart truly wanted to pick him instead of Patrik Elias who leaves me indifferant as far as ''loving the player'' goes , but there's a lot of defenseman at around the same level of Hatcher who can be add later , while this is not true for some other positions.

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02-10-2012, 12:44 PM
  #272
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The picks are coming fast and furious, boys.

With pick 255, arrbez's Inglewood Jacks pick a gritty two-way left winger:

Baldy Northcott, LW

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Old
02-10-2012, 12:45 PM
  #273
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The picks are coming fast and furious, boys.

With pick 255, arrbez's Inglewood Jacks pick a gritty two-way left winger:

Baldy Northcott, LW
he was the reason why I was hesitating when I picked Elias.

I had a Tikkanen , Thompson , Elias , Northcott in no true order , then at the end only elias and northcott were there.

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02-10-2012, 12:47 PM
  #274
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1893 Montreal AAA are proud to select D Babe Pratt.

Quote:
Walter Pratt was one of the best defensemen of his time and, for that matter, any era. He was an offensive blueliner before anyone had ever heard of Bobby Orr or Paul Coffey. He could rush the puck and score like defensemen of a more modern era.

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02-10-2012, 12:52 PM
  #275
Nalyd Psycho
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
yeah probably , anyway I'm a big Hatcher fan , and god knows my heart truly wanted to pick him instead of Patrik Elias who leaves me indifferant as far as ''loving the player'' goes , but there's a lot of defenseman at around the same level of Hatcher who can be add later , while this is not true for some other positions.
It's funny because I was debating heavily whether or not I could afford to take Carbonneau instead of two d-men. What I noticed was that options for high end second pairing defensive d-men were fast coming to a close so I definitely could not sleep on that.

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