HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

ATD 2012 - Draft Thread IV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-10-2012, 06:37 PM
  #326
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Absolutely guys like Ramsay, Tonelli, Carbonneau are more valuable than a lot of 2nd liners picked before them.
I was talking about defensemen for the 2nd pairing , I think there's a high numbers of guy capable of playing there available later than guys like Ramsay which is why I choosed to go for it right away.

My top 2 lines are set anyway , but a Ramsay-Nighbor-Provost line if necessary is just sick , and moving down Denneny with Oates actually works quite well Denneny being a great goal scorer.But this won't be the norm.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 06:39 PM
  #327
MadArcand
We do not sow
 
MadArcand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pyke
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Yes.
Thanks.

In that case, the Whalers select Roy 'Shrimp' Worters, G.



I've always wanted to draft him but sometimes I missed him and sometimes I got huge steal on Belfour, so...

And I don't give a rat's ass if it's 'early', I think it's right time for him and I want to research the hell out of him. Or something.

And no, this pick isn't caused by the half-bottle of Captain Morgan I just downed.

MadArcand is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 06:39 PM
  #328
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
I was talking about defensemen for the 2nd pairing , I think there's a high numbers of guy capable of playing there available later than guys like Ramsay which is why I choosed to go for it right away.

My top 2 lines are set anyway , but a Ramsay-Nighbor-Provost line if necessary is just sick , and moving down Denneny with Oates actually works quite well Denneny being a great goal scorer.But this won't be the norm.
I would un-set that 1st line if I were you. Have Ramsay and Provost on your 3rd line, and just take some bargain player to play RW with Nighbor later on.

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 06:41 PM
  #329
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I would un-set that 1st line if I were you. Have Ramsay and Provost on your 3rd line, and just take some bargain player to play RW with Nighbor later on.
I don't know I like Provost there , like Sturminator mentionned earlier when I drafted Provost Denneny-Nighbor's teammates were normally the Provost kind of player except maybe one , so I'll decide once all my line-up is set.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 06:48 PM
  #330
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
I don't know I like Provost there , like Sturminator mentionned earlier when I drafted Provost Denneny-Nighbor's teammates were normally the Provost kind of player except maybe one , so I'll decide once all my line-up is set.
I just think Provost's offense drags the line down a little bit.

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 07:03 PM
  #331
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Absolutely guys like Ramsay, Tonelli, Carbonneau are more valuable than a lot of 2nd liners picked before them.
That was my feeling. Plus it gives my third line a great player to build it around.

Tonelli can be a 2nd line glue guy too.

__________________
Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Nalyd Psycho is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 07:04 PM
  #332
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I just think Provost's offense drags the line down a little bit.
Provost's offense is not that bad , I think it is underrated.

Nighbor is also underrated offensively , just because he is that great at defense doesn't mean he wasn't a great offensive player.

Of course my line is not the greatest offensive line in the draft , but my 2nd is well above average which was the point.

Also take in consideration they'll have Kelly back there often with them.


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 02-10-2012 at 07:12 PM.
BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 07:09 PM
  #333
Stoneberg
Bored
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,672
vCash: 500
Sorry to those who proposed deals, I've decided to keep the pick.

Halifax selects Cecil Dillon, RW.

pming next

Stoneberg is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 07:10 PM
  #334
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
this is a very good pick

eagle will love it I'm sure lol

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 07:43 PM
  #335
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Provost's offense is not that bad , I think it is underrated.
I would be surprised if there aren't several better offensive RWs who will be available for the MLD.

Quote:
Nighbor is also underrated offensively , just because he is that great at defense doesn't mean he wasn't a great offensive player.
Nobody said anything about Nighbor. It's Provost who is going to drag the line's production down.

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:04 PM
  #336
nik jr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Congo-Kinshasa
Posts: 10,526
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I seem to remember Keats getting some outlandish number of PIMs one year in the WHL, I think it was. Like twice the 2nd place finisher, or something. He must have punched the commissioner's wife.
maybe the commissioner's wife had an animal rhythm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I would love a nice bio on him. I honestly don't know much on him, especially considering he's an unanimous Top-300 pick.
i posted some things about northcott in the dishing the dirt thread, mostly on page 5. northcott played C a couple of times.

if i ever draft northcott again, i will make a bio of him, since he played in montreal for almost his entire career (easy to find information in montreal gazette).

northcott was big, fairly fast, a strong backchecker and was used to check top F's, often on a line with hooley smith. bill cook said northcott was the hardest F to beat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
They are all pretty similar in terms of style. Hitchman's probably a little better skater than the other two, but he's also the least physically imposing.

Pulford is definately the most physically dominant of the three.
how would you decide something like this, and with confidence to say definitely?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I am suggesting that if someone is discrediting Hatcher for the era he played in, they should be consistent with older players.

Trashing Dead Puck Era players for their era has long been a sport in the History Section. I remember back in the 2008 HOH Top 100 list, some prominent posters wrote that Serge Savard should be ranked over Scott Stevens because Serge played a style that would be successful in any era and Stevens was a product of the dead puck era. I think it's a crap argument, personally.
agree

it also ignores the large difference in parity between '70s (WHA, expansion, few non-canadians) and '90s/2000s.

nik jr is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:22 PM
  #337
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
how would you decide something like this, and with confidence to say definitely?
I think it's pretty widely believed that Pulford was easily the most physically imposing player of his era. He's one of the elite, even in this draft, in terms of toughness. If you're making a list of heavyweights in this draft, Pulford should be near the top with guys like Gordie Howe, Clark Gillies, and Zdeno Chara.

Some other guys (off the top of my head) who could be considered there: Larry Robinson, Earl Seibert, Sprague Cleghorn, Newsy Lalonde, Gus Mortson, Cam Neely, etc.



Hatcher probably matches Pulford in terms if clearing the crease and handling guys down low, but he's far from a heavyweight.

Hitchman wasn't really close to either guy in either department.

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:24 PM
  #338
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I think it's pretty widely believed that Pulford was easily the most physically imposing player of his era. He's one of the elite, even in this draft, in terms of toughness. If you're making a list of heavyweights in this draft, Pulford should be near the top with guys like Gordie Howe, Clark Gillies, and Zdeno Chara.

Some other guys (off the top of my head) who could be considered there: Larry Robinson, Earl Seibert, Sprague Cleghorn, Newsy Lalonde, Gus Mortson, Cam Neely, etc.
...and derian hatcher

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:25 PM
  #339
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,033
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I would un-set that 1st line if I were you. Have Ramsay and Provost on your 3rd line, and just take some bargain player to play RW with Nighbor later on.
Yeah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Absolutely guys like Ramsay, Tonelli, Carbonneau are more valuable than a lot of 2nd liners picked before them.
Indeed/

seventieslord is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:27 PM
  #340
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Hatcher is excellent defensively. I guess a case can be made, but I'll stand by the fact that Wentworth was the better defensive player of the two. As always, I'm always up to read a convincing argument
It's obviously neigh impossible to say definitively when comparing defensive ability 60 years apart. But as was pointed out earlier, Wentworth's claim to being the best defensive defenceman of his era is suspect and open to debate. What is not open to debate is that he was one of the best. And by that token, I'd look at Hatcher's era. Most people would claim that Stevens and Lidstrom are definitively better. And it's hard to disagree. But more so, they are the best at what they did, and Hatcher played a different game. Lidstrom is obviously the best positional defence defenceman of his era. Stevens is of course the best hitter of his era, and the best psychological defenceman of his era. Meanwhile, I would argue that Hatcher was the best defenseman of his era on the boards and in front of the crease. Even better than Chris Pronger. There isn't a single player in Hatcher's day, and probably history, that would win more battles for position and possession than they lost against Hatcher. He's a dominant beast that has a legitimate claim to the throne of best crease clearer ever.

So if Wentworth had the ability to argue he was the best at what he did in the time he did it. Hatcher has the exact same argument going for him. But just like in their respective eras, what Wentworth and what Hatcher do is not the same thing. So they are different, albeit very effective defensive defencemen.

Nalyd Psycho is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:32 PM
  #341
Hedberg
MLD Glue Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,191
vCash: 500
Winnipeg selects RW Theo Fleury



1989 Stanley Cup Champion
1995 2nd Team All-Star
Captain of the Calgary Flames 1995-1997

Hedberg is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:35 PM
  #342
vancityluongo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,338
vCash: 500
I don't see any way this gets vetoed, so posting in the thread so it can be processed.

To Garnish Dragons: 263 and 327
To Winnipeg Saints 284 and 302

tony d is up.

vancityluongo is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:36 PM
  #343
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
...and derian hatcher
Hatcher wasn't on that level.

While Hatcher could hang in with some of the better fighters, he was never really in the elite level in his era. He rarely fought against the top heavyweights, and stuck to lower end heavies or middleweights.

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:40 PM
  #344
EagleBelfour
Registered User
 
EagleBelfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,233
vCash: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
It's obviously neigh impossible to say definitively when comparing defensive ability 60 years apart. But as was pointed out earlier, Wentworth's claim to being the best defensive defenceman of his era is suspect and open to debate. What is not open to debate is that he was one of the best. And by that token, I'd look at Hatcher's era. Most people would claim that Stevens and Lidstrom are definitively better. And it's hard to disagree. But more so, they are the best at what they did, and Hatcher played a different game. Lidstrom is obviously the best positional defence defenceman of his era. Stevens is of course the best hitter of his era, and the best psychological defenceman of his era. Meanwhile, I would argue that Hatcher was the best defenseman of his era on the boards and in front of the crease. Even better than Chris Pronger. There isn't a single player in Hatcher's day, and probably history, that would win more battles for position and possession than they lost against Hatcher. He's a dominant beast that has a legitimate claim to the throne of best crease clearer ever.

So if Wentworth had the ability to argue he was the best at what he did in the time he did it. Hatcher has the exact same argument going for him. But just like in their respective eras, what Wentworth and what Hatcher do is not the same thing. So they are different, albeit very effective defensive defencemen.
I have to underrate Hatcher, because although I knew he was an excellent crease clearer, I wouldn't of picked him over Pronger, and definitely not one of the better all-time player at it. Even if that the case, I believe Wentworth skillset are easier to build around and can better protect most opposition, as Hatcher skating issue can let him in trouble against more type of players he will play against. (Is that make sense?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneberg View Post
Sorry to those who proposed deals, I've decided to keep the pick.

Halifax selects Cecil Dillon, RW.

pming next
Wow, I thought I had made a case that Cecil Dillon was a borderline Top-200 All-Time Player last draft. I'm very disappointed he fell that far this time around. Definitely the best goalscorer available for a long time now. Plus he's a great back-checker, good defensive player, fast, play the PK, very reliable, and can play both wing without losing a step. Lester Patrick called him numerous time ''the perfect hockey player''.


Last edited by EagleBelfour: 02-10-2012 at 08:46 PM.
EagleBelfour is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:42 PM
  #345
tony d
The franchise
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,303
vCash: 500
Well if you guys say it's okay I'll go ahead and make the pick and also say publicly Theo Fleury was the guy I wanted to trade up for, solid pick.

That said Garnish is pleased to announce the selection of Steve Larmer, right wing.



Some stats on Larmer:

-1012 points in 1006 games
-2 All Star Game Appearances, 1983 Calder Trophy Winner
-5 40 Goal Seasons, 11 40 Assist Seasons, 7 80 point seasons
-1994 Stanley Cup champ (Had 16 points in 23 games during that run)
-29th All Time in Career Power play goals with 162

For more on Larmer click the following link:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=10895

I've pmed the next GM up.

__________________
tony d is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:50 PM
  #346
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by God Made Me View Post
Top 125? Is Patrick actually better than Marcel Pronovost?
Take a looksie at my bio and decide for yourself. He definitely didn't deserve to fall all the way down to 173, that's for sure. Hell of a steal.

jarek is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:55 PM
  #347
Leafs Forever
Registered User
 
Leafs Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,781
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarek View Post
Also, Lester Patrick going 173rd is quite shocking. I think seventies agreed that he should be regarded no worse than guys like Georges Boucher.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...9&postcount=63

A top-125 player of all time IMO.
Where does Hod Stuart rank then? Art Ross? Moose Johnson?

Just curious.

Leafs Forever is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:58 PM
  #348
vecens24
Registered User
 
vecens24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 5,002
vCash: 500
Hey my pick is Ott Heller, D. He's going to pair with Harvey on my top pairing.

Someone PM the next GM if you guys wouldn't mind, at the bar on my phone...

vecens24 is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 08:59 PM
  #349
nik jr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Congo-Kinshasa
Posts: 10,526
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I think it's pretty widely believed that Pulford was easily the most physically imposing player of his era. He's one of the elite, even in this draft, in terms of toughness. If you're making a list of heavyweights in this draft, Pulford should be near the top with guys like Gordie Howe, Clark Gillies, and Zdeno Chara.

Some other guys (off the top of my head) who could be considered there: Larry Robinson, Earl Seibert, Sprague Cleghorn, Newsy Lalonde, Gus Mortson, Cam Neely, etc.

Hatcher probably matches Pulford in terms if clearing the crease and handling guys down low, but he's far from a heavyweight.

Hitchman wasn't really close to either guy in either department.
i agree that pulford was a physically imposing player, but i don't know if he was the most imposing of his era, or how that would even be decided. and i don't see how you can say someone from one era is definitely more imposing than someone else. as i said before, i don't think these kind of intangibles can be ranked across eras with any degree of certainty (other than in obvious cases where 1 is known to lack something and another is known to have much of it). at least with offense we have numbers.


howe's physicality and toughness, for example, i think are overrated. he did not fight much, fought mostly mostly non-tough guys, and apparently lost fights more fights than he won. howe's reputation as a fearsome fighter seems to come primarily from 1 famous fight. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=26

person who posted that is a well respected author, and patskou is apparently a well respected historian and video archivist.

i have seen video and games of howe, and he was obviously very strong and physically imposing, and was physical and a great hitter, but not terribly physical like lindros.

nik jr is offline  
Old
02-10-2012, 09:03 PM
  #350
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Where does Hod Stuart rank then? Art Ross? Moose Johnson?

Just curious.
Why should I care?

jarek is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:20 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.