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ATD 2012 - Draft Thread IV

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Old
02-11-2012, 02:48 PM
  #476
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Did nobody watch Kovalchuk when he played with XXX? Those guys worked magic together.


This perception that Kovalchuk can only pick up the puck in his own zone and go end-to-end is absolutely rediculous. He's a great individualist, but he has also proven that he can work well with a center who will feed him the puck.

For a guy who "doesn't get into position for a pass", he sure as hell scored a lot of one-timer goals. Even for those people who just watch YouTube clips and pretend they actually watch games, I'm sure you can find plenty of those one-timers ont there.
1) Feel free to find Atlanta fans who tell you differently, but the word on Kovalchuk when he was traded is that he barely played with that undrafted playmaker at even strength. They had poor chemistry because Kovalchuk liked to carry the puck, which negated the use of a playmaker.

2) Kovalchuk has one of the best one-timers of all time, a great weapon when he gets in position to use it. He'll be great with Forsberg in the offensive zone - on the power play - as he was with that undrafted playmaker in Atlanta.

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02-11-2012, 02:50 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
So basically, u think its a bad thing that a player plays just as well with or without another good player. Good grief u must have some terrible problems when u pick players.
Yeah I have all kind of terrible problems.

The only thing I said was Kovalchuk was a massive defensive liability at this level , then the discussion got out of hand/offtopic because people actually tried to deny that fact by making very strong argument such as: ''You must not watch Kovalchuk play very often'' or ''He got better since he came to NJ'' which I responded by showing some plus and minueses/points stats of both Elias and Kovalchuk last year in the only full NJ year he had.Ifr he got bettert his season , it's just too bad but that's not enough.

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02-11-2012, 02:54 PM
  #478
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I will take Phil Watson, RW/C

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02-11-2012, 02:56 PM
  #479
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I will take Phil Watson, RW/C
Pretty sure he should be listed as C/RW. Didn't we learn in the last draft that he barely played RW?

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02-11-2012, 02:56 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Yeah I have all kind of terrible problems.

The only thing I said was Kovalchuk was a massive defensive liability at this level , then the discussion got out of hand/offtopic because people actually tried to deny that fact by making very strong argument such as: ''You must not watch Kovalchuk play very often'' or ''He got better since he came to NJ'' which I responded by showing some plus and minueses/points stats of both Elias and Kovalchuk last year in the only full NJ year he had.Ifr he got bettert his season , it's just too bad but that's not enough.
No one has denied that he is under par defensively. Hes just not as atrocious as u make him out to be. He was drafted to be a scorer on quality team not some south east division trash team. Its not like we drafted provost to play on our first line.

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02-11-2012, 02:57 PM
  #481
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Also, who is to say that Walker's offense isn't a bit underrated as it is represented? He was more of a playmaker it seems than a scorer as far as I can tell, and assists weren't exactly kept perfectly back in those days? By all means I don't mean this to be an overselling, more of a group collective thinking about an era of hockey. I saw seventies' vs2 chart with Walker among other PCHA stars, and it seemed to me those who were stronger goal scorers seemed to come out higher (no surprise). Would it be crazy to think that possibly Walker might be a bit stronger offensive than we are giving him credit for?

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02-11-2012, 02:58 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Pretty sure he should be listed as C/RW. Didn't we learn in the last draft that he barely played RW?
He's actually a C/RW/LW. He played C most of the time, not sure about RW, but his one season in Montreal he was LW.

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Old
02-11-2012, 02:58 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Pretty sure he should be listed as C/RW. Didn't we learn in the last draft that he barely played RW?
He shouldn't be listed as a RW at all.

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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Also, who is to say that Walker's offense isn't a bit underrated as it is represented? He was more of a playmaker it seems than a scorer as far as I can tell, and assists weren't exactly kept perfectly back in those days? By all means I don't mean this to be an overselling, more of a group collective thinking about an era of hockey. I saw seventies' vs2 chart with Walker among other PCHA stars, and it seemed to me those who were stronger goal scorers seemed to come out higher (no surprise). Would it be crazy to think that possibly Walker might be a bit stronger offensive than we are giving him credit for?
Probably not enough for it to matter.

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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
He's actually a C/RW/LW. He played C most of the time, not sure about RW, but his one season in Montreal he was LW.
I don't think one season at LW does anything for him. Unless he had an AST there (like Dunderdale), I would say he's about as good a LW as he is a RW - in other words, not very good at all. His best days were at C.. play him there.


Last edited by seventieslord: 02-13-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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Old
02-11-2012, 03:00 PM
  #484
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I don't think one season at LW does anything for him. Unless he had an AST there (like Dunderdale), I would say he's about as good a LW as he is a RW - in other words, not very good at all. His best days were at C.. play him there.
Which brings me to Brind'Amour really...

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02-11-2012, 03:01 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Well Provost might just be great offensively if he faces Kovalchuk
Provost is highly overrated.

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02-11-2012, 03:02 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
1) Feel free to find Atlanta fans who tell you differently, but the word on Kovalchuk when he was traded is that he barely played with that undrafted playmaker at even strength. They had poor chemistry because Kovalchuk liked to carry the puck, which negated the use of a playmaker.
If I remember right, XXX played with Kovalchuk in 2003, XXX in 2004, and Kovalchuk again in 2006.

Kovalchuk does like to get the puck early on the rush, and when he goes, he's pretty much got the blinders on as he takes it to the net. He'll also be the type of guy who will cheat out and look for the stretch pass.

Forsberg can give it to him early, find him for a stretch pass, like XXX did, or he can carry it himself.

Quote:
2) Kovalchuk has one of the best one-timers of all time, a great weapon when he gets in position to use it. He'll be great with Forsberg in the offensive zone - on the power play - as he was with that undrafted playmaker in Atlanta.
He can always get one-times at even strength too.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 02-11-2012 at 03:07 PM. Reason: undrafteds
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02-11-2012, 03:02 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by jarek View Post
I don't think one season at LW does anything for him. Unless he had an AST there (like Dunderdale), I would say he's about as good a LW as he is a RW - in other words, not very good at all. His best days were at C.. play him there.
Or maybe I'm mistaken, he's listed as RW for that year in Montreal. But that said, he was a PPG player that year, granted it was war weakened.

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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Which brings me to Brind'Amour really...
You mean the years where he was the glue guy on the most effective line in the NHL?

Or the year he was 3rd in all-star voting? His only meaningful placement.


Last edited by seventieslord: 02-13-2012 at 11:22 AM.
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Old
02-11-2012, 03:04 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by jarek View Post
I don't think one season at LW does anything for him. Unless he had an AST there (like Dunderdale), I would say he's about as good a LW as he is a RW - in other words, not very good at all. His best days were at C.. play him there.
It'll be interesting to see what chaos does with Dunderdale. When I drafted St Louis, it was to be winger for one of the goal scoring centers who always fall, and Dunderdale would have been my second choice after Bowie. But man, Dunderdale has to be just about the worst playmaking center in this draft who will appear on a scoring line, right? He's as biased a goal scorer as any of the pure shooting wings who have been drafted so far. Fantastic goal scorer though.

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02-11-2012, 03:04 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Or maybe I'm mistaken, he's listed as RW for that year in Montreal. But that said, he was a PPG player that year, granted it was war weakened.
Well, that's something. Still, I got ostracized for putting Watson at RW last year by MadArcand..

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
It'll be interesting to see what chaos does with Dunderdale. When I drafted St Louis, it was to be winger for one of the goal scoring centers who always fall, and Dunderdale would have been my second choice after Bowie. But man, Dunderdale has to be just about the worst playmaking center in this draft who will appear on a scoring line, right? He's as biased a goal scorer as any of the pure shooting wings who have been drafted so far. Fantastic goal scorer though.
He can play LW as far as I'm concerned. He had at least one FAST there (and I think it may have been 2).


Last edited by seventieslord: 02-13-2012 at 11:22 AM.
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02-11-2012, 03:06 PM
  #490
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You mean the years where he was the glue guy on the most effective line in the NHL?
You mean when he continually asked the organization to switch him to C because he didn't like playing there?

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02-11-2012, 03:06 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
If I remember right, Savard played with Kovalchuk in 2003, Heatley in 2004, and Kovalchuk again in 2006.

Kovalchuk does like to get the puck early on the rush, and when he goes, he's pretty much got the blinders on as he takes it to the net. He'll also be the type of guy who will cheat out and look for the stretch pass.

Forsberg can give it to him early, find him for a stretch pass, like Savard did, or he can carry it himself.



He can always get one-times at even strength too.
Dont forget that we have the outlet pass genius, Lidström too.

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02-11-2012, 03:07 PM
  #492
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You mean when he continually asked the organization to switch him to C because he didn't like playing there?
Doesn't mean he can't be effective there. Many of his best years were at LW...

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02-11-2012, 03:07 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Convince me he's able to play on the first line in the ATD. He was a decent goal scorer and very good shadower and?
My lines doesn't have any numbers , I just send 3 players against 3 other players.That's how I see it , and by the looks of your team , I would not be really worried about sending Denneny-Nighbor-Provost against your 1st line.

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Doesn't mean he can't be effective there. Many of his best years were at LW...
The guy doesn't want to play there , his effectiveness will suffer for sure playing at LW , Brind'Amour is at his best playing center.


Last edited by seventieslord: 02-13-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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02-11-2012, 03:13 PM
  #494
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The guy doesn't want to play there , his effectiveness will suffer for sure playing at LW , Brind'Amour is at his best playing center.
Are u now saying that Brind'Amour is so unprofessional that he wont play at 100% at LW even though we who watched him and the statistical evidence points on the opposite.

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02-11-2012, 03:14 PM
  #495
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My lines doesn't have any numbers , I just send 3 players against 3 other players.That's how I see it , and by the looks of your team , I would not be really worried about sending Denneny-Nighbor-Provost against your 1st line.
Our first line will be one of the weaker ones in the draft. We knew that would be the case when we used our first 2 picks on a defenseman and a goalie...... then used our 4th pick on a 2nd liner..... and our 5th pick on another defenseman..... and then our 6th pick on another defenseman.

Our first line is made up of our 3rd, 7th, and 9th picks. Should anybody be surprised that it will be one of the weaker aspects of the team?

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02-11-2012, 03:14 PM
  #496
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Are u now saying that Brind'Amour is so unprofessional that he wont play at 100% at LW even though we who watched him and the statistical evidence points on the opposite.
what statistics anyway? Brind'Amour offense is even worst than Provost on a first line.Oh the double-standard

Prove me Brind'Amour is better offensively than Provost.

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02-11-2012, 03:20 PM
  #497
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what statistics anyway? Brind'Amour offense is even worst than Provost on a first line.Oh the double-standard

Prove me Brind'Amour is better offensively than Provost.
That is a blatant deflection. You were shown to be mistaken, man up and admit it.

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02-11-2012, 03:22 PM
  #498
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then you engage in discussions when you don't know what you're talking about , a simple check up in the roster thread would have told you Brind'amour is indeed on the 1st line.
I find him out of place but then again, there is BIG difference between Gretzky/Kurri and Denneny/Nighbor...

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02-11-2012, 03:23 PM
  #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
The guy doesn't want to play there , his effectiveness will suffer for sure playing at LW
It didn't suffer in real life, why would it here?

He spent over a decade switching between the two positions, including full seasons played there. He played some of his best pre-Carolina hockey on the wing. He liked centre better, but I'm sure he'll find a way to be happy playing with Gretzky and Kurri for a year if I put him there.

Other things Rod Brind'Amour probably did that probably weren't his favourites: backchecking, battling in the corners, working out. But he did them, and he did them well, because he's a ****ing champ.

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02-11-2012, 03:23 PM
  #500
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then you engage in discussions when you don't know what you're talking about , a simple check up in the roster thread would have told you Brind'amour is indeed on the 1st line.
Yes. With the greatest 1-2 offensive punch the NHL has ever seen. That's a line that can afford to have a guy who has no business on the 1st line, especially since Tikkanen is the best offensive player they played with and often had scrubs like Dave Semenko on the line.

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