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Old
02-08-2012, 01:23 PM
  #1
Ducksgo*
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2012 Trade Deadline

Who's going and who's staying? I still feel Vish may be on his way out along with Lydman.


Last edited by Vipers31: 02-27-2012 at 09:27 AM.
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02-08-2012, 01:33 PM
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I can't really peg who else would be leaving aside from Lydman. Vis is too valuable to us. As far as forwards go, I'm not sure teams would want any of the 2nd or 3rd lines. It would have to be a package deal. I really hope Bob does not make the mistake of trading one of the big 3 for a UFA defensman.

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02-08-2012, 01:34 PM
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I really hope this doesn't become a depressing thread. Unless we play perfectly before the deadline...I doubt we do anything significant.

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02-08-2012, 01:49 PM
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I can't see us adding anything unless we are near perfect until the deadline.

I can see us shopping Hagman, Blake, and Lydman though and making a go/no go on the trades right before then.

If we think we have a reasonable shot to make it to the post season we may actually add by giving up a mid round pick for some faceoff specialist.

If we think we're done, I think we'll have a firesale of Vets... possibly including Koivu and Selanne, should they choose to want to play on a contender.

The big moves likely won't happen until the off season. But I'd assume on of RPG will get traded unless they sign very favorable extensions.

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02-08-2012, 02:20 PM
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I think a team out there is going to make a huge overpayment for the likes of Bobby Ryan.... That being said I think you have to made the trade.

Ducks need to look for the long run and face the truth that these guys will not be playing in the playoffs. I would be sad if Ryan was playing for someother team.... But it might make sense!

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02-08-2012, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gradeAducksfan View Post
I think a team out there is going to make a huge overpayment for the likes of Bobby Ryan.... That being said I think you have to made the trade.

Ducks need to look for the long run and face the truth that these guys will not be playing in the playoffs. I would be sad if Ryan was playing for someother team.... But it might make sense!
Would have to be a pretty good offer.

Man I'd of loved a Bergeron for Ryan swap earlier when he was struggling a bit, what a steal that could of been.

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02-08-2012, 02:30 PM
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I hope Murray is proactive rather than reactive. This is the best seller's market in years, capitalize on it.

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02-08-2012, 02:37 PM
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I hope Murray is proactive rather than reactive. This is the best seller's market in years, capitalize on it.
So...blow it up to get a guy like Rick Nash or Jeff Carter? No thanks.

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02-08-2012, 02:48 PM
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So...blow it up to get a guy like Rick Nash or Jeff Carter? No thanks.
Huh?

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02-08-2012, 02:49 PM
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So...blow it up to get a guy like Rick Nash or Jeff Carter? No thanks.
I think you have it backwards. I think he means this is the best time to sell with so little left for deadline.

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02-08-2012, 02:53 PM
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Anyway impossible to predict what we will be right now. We will know by the deadline though. If we are 8 or more out of it, Murray will sell. If it's 4-7 he will probably be both, and if it's less then 4, I wouldn't be suprised to see Murray be a buyer.

Would like a 4th line center personally. Some Sens fans were saying Konopka may be moved. If that's the case, would love to see Murray make a play for him and trade Pelley.

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02-08-2012, 03:04 PM
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I think you have it backwards. I think he means this is the best time to sell with so little left for deadline.
Well...at least try to understand my confusion when a post basically says

Now is the time to capitalize
This is one of the best seller's markets in recent history.

It sounds like it's time to capitalize on what the Seller's have to offer.

And even if it's backwards...suggesting we should involve ourselves in this "great" sellers market would mean putting up similar value "rpg, Selanne, Koivu, Visnovsky"

In what way can we benefit from that. Unless teams GROSSLY overpay we aren't going to like what we get in return for these players and it will hurt us long term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
Anyway impossible to predict what we will be right now. We will know by the deadline though. If we are 8 or more out of it, Murray will sell. If it's 4-7 he will probably be both, and if it's less then 4, I wouldn't be suprised to see Murray be a buyer.

Would like a 4th line center personally. Some Sens fans were saying Konopka may be moved. If that's the case, would love to see Murray make a play for him and trade Pelley.
Unless 89 points is enough to make the playoffs, 8 isn't the number you're looking for. Assuming it's 93 (my compromise as I believe it'll be 95) we're 6 games out+OTL's


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02-08-2012, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Well...at least try to understand my confusion when a post basically says

Now is the time to capitalize
This is one of the best seller's markets in recent history.

It sounds like it's time to capitalize on what the Seller's have to offer.

And even if it's backwards...suggesting we should involve ourselves in this "great" sellers market would mean putting up similar value "rpg, Selanne, Koivu, Visnovsky"

In what way can we benefit from that. Unless teams GROSSLY overpay we aren't going to like what we get in return for these players and it will hurt us long term.



Unless 89 points is enough to make the playoffs, 8 isn't the number you're looking for. Assuming it's 93 (my compromise as I believe it'll be 95) we're 6 games out+OTL's
How would we capitalize on a seller's market if we are buying? I'm confused by your confusion.

Grossly overpaying is what agreat seller's market creates. That is why I am for selling.

On top of that, selling our vets doesn't hurt us long term, it helps us long term. I don't want to trade Getzlaf or Perry, although I'm not against trading Ryan for the right price and position upgrade, namely top two dman and center.

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02-08-2012, 03:22 PM
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Well...at least try to understand my confusion
You are still confused...

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02-08-2012, 03:31 PM
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You are still confused...
I get what he's trying to say. Sell now while it's an accessible and attractive market right? Get in on the action.

But when guys like Jeff Carter, Rick Nash, Zach Parise, Alex Semin, Penner, Roy, Raymond, Ruutu, Schneider, Kostitsyn, Staal, and Subban are rumored to be moved...

what do you think we can get in return for (and how attractive will the market be for)

Hagman
Selanne (ufa, gonna retire. Anything we get back from a contender won't be significant. They're gonna need their key pieces for their run)
Koivu (value even lower than Teemu's+same story)
Ellis (injury scare, not the most solid backup in the league)
Visnovsky (i'd rather keep him around)
Lydman
Beleskey
Bonino
Parros
Brookbank


Last edited by DuckJet: 02-08-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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02-08-2012, 03:36 PM
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DuckJet, not every team is looking for a big piece. Think back to 2007, where at the trade deadline we picked up... Brad May. If Murray is looking to sell, regardless of what pieces, this is probably the time to do it.

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02-08-2012, 03:50 PM
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DuckJet, not every team is looking for a big piece. Think back to 2007, where at the trade deadline we picked up... Brad May. If Murray is looking to sell, regardless of what pieces, this is probably the time to do it.
I agree...I'm just asking...what are we going to get in return that is an improvement over what we already have signed, or waiting in the AHL/minors?

It's something I think we should be discussing in a deadline thread. I wasn't saying it to prove a point (though, I see how I made it look like I was)

and one thing I want to say, if we are sellers...I really hope he doesn't have the same kind of deadline he did the year Burke left. Kind of the basis and inspiration of my question. I'd like to know what we could realistically get back for those players that will be an improvement.

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02-08-2012, 03:50 PM
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DuckJet, not every team is looking for a big piece. Think back to 2007, where at the trade deadline we picked up... Brad May. If Murray is looking to sell, regardless of what pieces, this is probably the time to do it.
And that May for Wall trade set Colorado up for the string of playoff successes they've had ever since......


Trades that yield 3rd's and career minor league players don't do squat to change team fortunes is the point I think he's trying to make.

Personally I feel the team is going to be worse next year with the retirement of Selanne regardless of who they draft (Yapukov<<<Selanne).


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02-08-2012, 03:54 PM
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And that May for Wall trade set Colorado up for the string of playoff successes they've had ever since......


Trades that yield 3rd's and career minor league players don't do squat to change team fortunes is the point I think he's trying to make.

Personally I feel the team is going to be worse next year with the retirement of Selanne regardless of who they draft (Yapukoc<<<Selanne).
I'm really not trying to be an antagonist in this thread or anything I swear...but how is Yakupov<<<Selanne?

Yakupov projects to be a 90-110 point 40 goals+ type player. That would be a VIRTUAL Teemu replacement...but no way we get him anyway. So the point is kind of moot as it is.

But the point I bolded is EXACTLY my point. That's the only kind of talent we'd get back for everyone listed with the possible exception of Teemu, Lubo, and Koivu. I seriously doubt us selling those players will really help us much. As much as I'd like to be wrong about that.

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02-08-2012, 03:58 PM
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I said NEXT year. Yapukov will not score 40 goals or be PPG as a rookie. He's not Crosby/Ovechkin.

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02-08-2012, 04:06 PM
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I said NEXT year. Yapukov will not score 40 goals or be PPG as a rookie. He's not Crosby/Ovechkin.
Hahaha ok good point. I thought you meant in general. And you never know. Put him on the wing with Perry and Getzlaf? Not impossible.

But again. The odds of us getting him are like 1/500 so whatever.

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02-08-2012, 05:04 PM
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And that May for Wall trade set Colorado up for the string of playoff successes they've had ever since......


Trades that yield 3rd's and career minor league players don't do squat to change team fortunes is the point I think he's trying to make.

Personally I feel the team is going to be worse next year with the retirement of Selanne regardless of who they draft (Yapukov<<<Selanne).
Yeah, but expecting to sell minor assets and get big returns is unrealistic. To me, it isn't about turning things around completely. It's about taking a step in the right direction.

Anaheim has been headed down that road for a while now, and honestly... part of the problem is Selanne, in my opinion. Not him personally, but rather what Anaheim has tried to do because of him. Since moving Andy Mac, everything management has done regarding the 2nd line has been finding the right players to put with Selanne. That's all fine and good while Selanne is here, but the second he retires the Ducks are in a bind.

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02-08-2012, 05:07 PM
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I agree...I'm just asking...what are we going to get in return that is an improvement over what we already have signed, or waiting in the AHL/minors?

It's something I think we should be discussing in a deadline thread. I wasn't saying it to prove a point (though, I see how I made it look like I was)

and one thing I want to say, if we are sellers...I really hope he doesn't have the same kind of deadline he did the year Burke left. Kind of the basis and inspiration of my question. I'd like to know what we could realistically get back for those players that will be an improvement.
We're probably not going to get much, but something is better than nothing, and occasionally you find a gem.

However, I don't expect Murray to trade someone like Bonino. He's finally coming into his own, and his value to Anaheim is higher than anything we'd get for him. Ditto for Beleskey(to a lesser degree).

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02-08-2012, 05:12 PM
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And that May for Wall trade set Colorado up for the string of playoff successes they've had ever since......


Trades that yield 3rd's and career minor league players don't do squat to change team fortunes is the point I think he's trying to make.

Personally I feel the team is going to be worse next year with the retirement of Selanne regardless of who they draft (Yapukov<<<Selanne).
you have to accumulate assets so you can make moves to improve the team down the road. what if next year we are buyers? well those extra picks and prospects become valuable in multiple ways. If we get an overpay you gotta take it. IE (schenn and kadri and a first for ryan)

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02-08-2012, 05:17 PM
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Yeah, but expecting to sell minor assets and get big returns is unrealistic. To me, it isn't about turning things around completely. It's about taking a step in the right direction.

Anaheim has been headed down that road for a while now, and honestly... part of the problem is Selanne, in my opinion. Not him personally, but rather what Anaheim has tried to do because of him. Since moving Andy Mac, everything management has done regarding the 2nd line has been finding the right players to put with Selanne. That's all fine and good while Selanne is here, but the second he retires the Ducks are in a bind.
I agree with all of that. What I'm more doing is throw cold water on the posters pushing the "SELL! SELL! SELL!" viewpoint like this is NHL 12 and that "asset management" is going to do anything but gut the team. The returns for Lydman and Visnovsky are unlikely to come close to replacing what those players bring to the team, and the collection of scraps for Hagman, Blake and Brookbank won't be enough to add to them to make their replacements any better IMO. If the Ducks start losing you may as well get a couple of 3-5th picks for the UFA's ONLY, but the folks expecting some team windfall are in for a severe disappointment for what it does for the team.

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