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Considering the Rangers offensive woes (esp PP) - Why is Zuke still in the AHL?

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Old
02-09-2012, 04:00 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Brian Leetch
Sad, but true.

Perhaps the Jagr/Nylander combo in 2005-2006, but that was a strange season from a powerplay and offense standpoint

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02-09-2012, 04:00 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by threeGo View Post
Is it true that Richards was playing on the fourth line?
He's playing on the fourth line tonight.

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02-09-2012, 04:04 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Name the last person that put on a Rangers sweater and was able to do anything help the PP. Seriously.
I remember Jagr was deadly, especially with Straka/Prucha/Nylander on his unit. He'd skate into the slot and do that no look wrister like a boss.

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02-09-2012, 04:11 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Dadude View Post
I remember Jagr was deadly, especially with Straka/Prucha/Nylander on his unit. He'd skate into the slot and do that no look wrister like a boss.
Yep Jagr had 24 PP goals in 05-06.

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02-09-2012, 04:21 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
Yep Jagr had 24 PP goals in 05-06.


We probably won't have that many all season as a team this year.

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02-09-2012, 04:25 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Dadude View Post


We probably won't have that many all season as a team this year.
Right now they have 23. Gonna be close. Prucha had 16 that year too. Between the two of them they will easily have more than this years team

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02-09-2012, 04:28 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
Right now they have 23. Gonna be close. Prucha had 16 that year too. Between the two of them they will easily have more than this years team
I honestly don't expect us to score another one this season. We're better off on the PK than the PP. Other than that major penalty in Boston, what's the last PPG we scored?

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02-09-2012, 04:31 PM
  #83
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I think it's coaching. I mean, Tampa has Steven ****ing Stamkos, the best pure sniper in the league, and their powerplay sucks too.
They just have to start from scratch with this powerplay. It doesn't just need tweaking. It needs a demolition and a rebuild.

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02-09-2012, 04:54 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
I think it's coaching. I mean, Tampa has Steven ****ing Stamkos, the best pure sniper in the league, and their powerplay sucks too.
They just have to start from scratch with this powerplay. It doesn't just need tweaking. It needs a demolition and a rebuild.
The rebuild would have to start with learning how to carry the puck into the zone. We dump in chase wayyyy too much on the powerplay, which never works as teams aren't normally aggressive on the PK.

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02-09-2012, 04:57 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadude View Post
I remember Jagr was deadly, especially with Straka/Prucha/Nylander on his unit. He'd skate into the slot and do that no look wrister like a boss.
I'll give ya that, but I'm thinking more along the lines of the McCabes and Morris' that were brought in to fix the same problem. It just isn't that simple.

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02-09-2012, 04:59 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I'll give ya that, but I'm thinking more along the lines of the McCabes and Morris' that were brought in to fix the same problem. It just isn't that simple.
Definitely cant remember the last time if ever that someone who was brought in to help the PP actually worked out.

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02-09-2012, 05:30 PM
  #87
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Not saying he's a new St.Louis, cause these guys show up every tenth year... However if we don't risk it you never know might be... Here are MSL's numbers at the start of hus carreer

1997-1998 SAINT JOHN FLAMES-AHL 25 15 11 26 20
1998-1999 FLAMES 13 1 1 2 -2 10 0 0 0 14 7.1
1998-1999 SAINT JOHN FLAMES-AHL 53 28 34 62 30
1999-2000 FLAMES 56 3 15 18 -5 22 0 0 1 73 4.1
1999-2000 SAINT JOHN FLAMES-AHL 17 15 11 26 5 14 6 1 0 77 19.5
2000-2001 LIGHTNING 78 18 22 40 -4 12 3 3 4 141 12.8
2001-2002 LIGHTNING 53 16 19 35 4 20 6 1 2 105 15.2
2002-2003 LIGHTNING 82 33 37 70 10 32 12 3 5 201 16.4

Look at this... He got trust all along and became massive. But I reckon we would write him off too....
Not everybody is a new Crosby... Players take time to develope. And by looking at these numbers MSL got 4-5 years to proove himself... So yeah, let's send MZA back to Europe. This board and patience is plain retarded at times!

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02-09-2012, 05:36 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
The "offensive woes" aren't that serious. NYR is 13th in the league in Goals/Game. Is Zuke a PP wiz? I don't recall him being particularly effective on the PP when he was up for an extended period last season.
#1 in points per power play minute played for NY Rangers last season

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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Look at all of the teams pounding down Sather's door trying to acquire Zuccarello?

This is a first place hockey team and not having Zuccarello will be there downfall

Zuccarello has been available for a while. This is from November 27
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...739/story.html

The Rangers have spent most of this season looking for a defenseman and forward. They found a taker for Erik Christensen. Haven't found a taker for Zuccarello who has been hurt twice this season.
That was 1 guy just giving his opinion not a fact. The same guy had us hypothetically trading MDZ to the oilers this season

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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Cause he's undersized, isn't that good off the puck, and a defensive liability.
What was his plus minus last season? How many goals against was he on the ice for in his 3 games this season?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers4Life74 View Post
oh look,THIS thread again.

cant people just accept that Zuc is most likely done as a Ranger?
Yes some people can write him off just like many Rangers fans wrote off Dave Gagner and Marc Savard.

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02-09-2012, 05:59 PM
  #89
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He's clearly worth at least a chance at this point. Give him a little time to get settled in -- I really don't see what the harm is. He's not nearly as bad defensively as some people make him out to be; last year he was +3 in 42 games. That doesn't in any way indicate a guy who's defensively awful. Obviously defense is not the strong part of his game, but if he can provide offensive spark it's worth a shot. And a lot of you are severely exaggerating his defensive shortcomings.

Like others said, he was .5 PPG in his first year in the league. What's the harm? Some people around here talk as though giving him a few games would carry some kind of disastrous consequence. This team needs more offensive skill. Maybe he's the one to help provide it. Maybe he's not. But I think they should at least give it a shot; I don't think they've fully explored this option yet.

Some people talk of deferring to the coaches' opinions as if coaches are always right. I understand that they know more than we do, but that does not always mean that their logic, opinions, and instincts are infallible. The fact that they haven't really given him a chance this year doesn't necessarily mean that he couldn't be effective. His scoring from last year shows promise; if the offense he can provide outweighs his defensive shortcomings, then great, he's part of the solution. If not, send him down.

This is the time of year to bring him up and see. Better now than in late March. I'm personally skeptical about how effective he could be, but I think the totality of his performance should warrant him a more extended shot on the team. I also don't think the "but he'll displace someone in the top 6!" argument holds much weight, as the lines are so jumbled rand mix&matched right now anyway. Plus, it's not as though the offense has been performing optimally as of late. I think the potential benefit of giving him a shot far outweighs any associated risk.

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Old
02-09-2012, 06:03 PM
  #90
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I guess a big part of my original question re: this post was if it is really that he's too small, a supposed defensive liability, knocked off the puck too easily, too slow, not enough of a grinder, etc. as everyone claims (but I don't think have adequately proven) - or are there more reasons that we (as fans sitting outside of the bubble) don't know about? I just find it hard to believe that he was only given 3 games to prove his worth this season - and that was enough to hit the gavel and close the book on Mats Zuccarello and his ability to be on the New York Rangers roster.

How many games did Christensen play this season? Mr. Invisible? Not trying to causing any controversy, but maybe there's more to this MZA story than we know...

Also, there's a catch-22 in play here. Other teams won't be as interested in trading for Zukes if they don't have a good sampling of recent NHL performance to evaluate. The longer he stays in the A, the less value he has. You figure they'd bring him up prior to the deadline to at least take a chance at him playing somewhat well, and getting something decent back in return - something more than a 5th-round pick in 2014.

Or maybe some posters are right - maybe the Rangers have him in the AHL for some insurance in case ("gawd" forbid) there is a rash of injuries to the Rangers forward corps. I find it hard to believe that there are NO takers for this kid. He was sought after post-Olympics by several teams (supposedly). This is a kid who really stood out in that tourney, who was the Swedish Elite League MVP, and gives his all every shift - not to mention that he DOES produce even though so many posters have tried to deny this fact (even after other posters have listed cold, hard facts about his production).

Anyway, it's an interesting story no matter how you shake it.

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Old
02-09-2012, 07:00 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Cause he's undersized, isn't that good off the puck, and a defensive liability. .
he just not good at all..then again i would send mitchell down and give zucc a shot,but only mitchell..everyone else stays put.

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02-09-2012, 08:46 PM
  #92
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Don't think Feds returned to the bench (definitely didn't play again). Unfortunately, I'd say there's a pretty good chance he was concussed on that play.

I'd much rather bring Zuccarello up and give him another shot rather than recall Wolski from his conditioning assignment.

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Old
02-09-2012, 09:05 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
It's a simple equation, MZA's lack of speed and size severely negate his offensive creativity.

I look at him and I just don't see an NHL player. To bad, I thought it was a good gamble signing him and I was certainly rooting for him to make it.

I think he could succeed with a team with little depth of talent....read: Islanders....redux: Parenteau. But not on one of the better teams in the league.

For him to have any impact, he would have to play on the top two lines: tell me....who would he replace? Even if one of our top six forwards got hurt, the first shot at replacing him would go to WW (now, that's a whole other can of worms).

MZA can't play on our bottom two lines which are basically blue-collar, defensive first lines. MZA could not be put out in a defensive role late in a game. He could not forecheck and keep possession of the puck. He would not be effective in Tort's neurtral zone forecheck. Sure he has much more talent than Mitchell, but only offensive talent. In the role that Mitchell plays, he is quite effective, more effective than MZA would be. No one is saying put Mitchell on the top two lines. He is infinitely more valuable as a checking forward than MZA would ever be.

I feel for MZA; he worked hard over the summer, had a good camp, and opened the season with the team. He has been pushed aside because we are a much deeper team than we were. He must be frustrated as hell. But, even with our offensive woes (earth to Brad Richards....etc), MZA just doesn't fit. I wish he did but he doesn't. I hope he finds success elsewhere.
Sad as it is, I have to agreed completely on this. He must play on a scoring line. Nead to be traded to a weaker team or his out of NA come springtime.


Last edited by fredrikstad: 02-09-2012 at 09:22 PM.
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02-10-2012, 01:36 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtranova View Post
Not saying he's a new St.Louis, cause these guys show up every tenth year... However if we don't risk it you never know might be... Here are MSL's numbers at the start of hus carreer

1997-1998 SAINT JOHN FLAMES-AHL 25 15 11 26 20
1998-1999 FLAMES 13 1 1 2 -2 10 0 0 0 14 7.1
1998-1999 SAINT JOHN FLAMES-AHL 53 28 34 62 30
1999-2000 FLAMES 56 3 15 18 -5 22 0 0 1 73 4.1
1999-2000 SAINT JOHN FLAMES-AHL 17 15 11 26 5 14 6 1 0 77 19.5
2000-2001 LIGHTNING 78 18 22 40 -4 12 3 3 4 141 12.8
2001-2002 LIGHTNING 53 16 19 35 4 20 6 1 2 105 15.2
2002-2003 LIGHTNING 82 33 37 70 10 32 12 3 5 201 16.4

Look at this... He got trust all along and became massive. But I reckon we would write him off too....
Not everybody is a new Crosby... Players take time to develope. And by looking at these numbers MSL got 4-5 years to proove himself... So yeah, let's send MZA back to Europe. This board and patience is plain retarded at times!

But Martin St. Louis always had great speed... more like Hagelin. Zuccarello is more like a smaller version of P.A. Parenteau. Would it have been worth investing 4-5 years in developing Parenteau at the expense of developing Tortarella's style of team play? At some point you have to stop auditioning and start winning unless you want to be the Islanders.

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Old
02-10-2012, 05:03 PM
  #95
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I agree with a lot of the pros and cons about him posted here, but lets be reality here for a sec...Newberry got called up like 10 times last year for some weird reason. Why wouldn't MZA get a game or two here or there *just in case* he doesn't suck. Especially when your other options are running 7 D.

Not a big deal either way, I just think Torts doesn't like him, don't really see another reason to keep him down after Feds is out.

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Old
02-11-2012, 03:10 AM
  #96
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MZA isn't a defensive liability (anymore), 'cause he's playing excellent and regular PK in the Whale. He's been the player that Gernander has recomended for a call up each time he's been asked.

I think the reason he isn't called up and down the way Newbury is, is because he's nearing his "waiver free" limit of games, and they don't want him to go for free to another team later, if he doesn't stick, and apparently don't want him to rust in the press box either.

edit:
For the MZA/MSL comparison, Zuccarello put up comparable numbers to MSL's breakout season (00/01) last year, albeit MSL had more games played (but again, he were in his third NHL year). At that time, MSL were 25 and last year MZA was 23. In his 23-year old season MSL put up 1 goal and 1 assist on thirteen games in the NHL, and 62 points on 53 games in the AHL, and that's an ounce worse pp/g than MZA currently is going for in the Whale this year.

MSLs 56 game stint in Calgary in his second year gave 18 points, a season very comparable to MZAs shows, statisticly, that MZA has the same potential as MSL, if nothing else.


Last edited by anofsti: 02-11-2012 at 03:18 AM. Reason: Adressing the MSL comparison.
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Old
02-11-2012, 06:11 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
MSL is listed as 5'8" 176 lbs on TBL.com. MZA is listed as 5'7" 179 lbs. on NYR.com. Not a big difference.

Not saying that MZA has even an ounce of the skill that MSL has, but let's not make stuff up.
Well, St. Louis played his first NHL game being 23 years old. In that season he had 2 points in 13 games. Next season was better - 18 points in 56 games. 3rd season - 40 points in 78 games... I mean compare this statistics to MZA one...

But it's not a surprise to me. It's Rangers where star players become AHLers, and AHLers become star players... but in other teams.

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Old
02-11-2012, 02:13 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Well, St. Louis played his first NHL game being 23 years old. In that season he had 2 points in 13 games. Next season was better - 18 points in 56 games. 3rd season - 40 points in 78 games... I mean compare this statistics to MZA one...

But it's not a surprise to me. It's Rangers where star players become AHLers, and AHLers become star players... but in other teams.
Can't complain about that right now though.

I realize why Zuke I still down in Conneticut when the team is in the top of the league, but, alot of the critisizm he gets are either unfair or wrong. Yes, his board game isn't excellent, but with time and confidence, he can evolve to an even better player. He can hit (belive it or not), he has more takeaways than giveaways, and he forechecks good and agressivly.

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Old
02-12-2012, 09:03 AM
  #99
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Zuccarello will never play for the Rangers again. No matter what.

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02-12-2012, 09:24 AM
  #100
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The timing and length of his injury, the size of his cap hit, the waiver limit and the team's actual needs up until very recently all killed his chance to get a call up this year. People are clamoring about his offensive ability but he was sent down to work on the rest of his game which he hasn't gotten to do for any consistent length of time. I'd bet some dollars that later in the year once MZA has another 2-3 weeks of playing consistently and well across the board he will get his last look granted this would be if he is not traded.

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