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Alain Vigneault Discussion - Part 2

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Old
03-21-2012, 04:20 PM
  #151
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AV simply realizes that the Canucks are not going to move in the standings, and now is the time to get the team prepared for the playoffs by getting players to play with people they're not used to.

Last year in the Finals Bieksa was brutal after Hamhuis got injured. He hadn't played with anybody all season. Now he has at least a bit of experience playing with other defenders.

Pass It To Bulis just posted a good article about this.

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03-21-2012, 04:27 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EroticBakery View Post
Last year in the Finals Bieksa was brutal after Hamhuis got injured. He hadn't played with anybody all season. Now he has at least a bit of experience playing with other defenders.
But he's been quite abysmal with defenders that aren't Hamhuis. Still a bit of concern there.

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03-21-2012, 04:40 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by EroticBakery View Post
AV simply realizes that the Canucks are not going to move in the standings, and now is the time to get the team prepared for the playoffs by getting players to play with people they're not used to.

Last year in the Finals Bieksa was brutal after Hamhuis got injured. He hadn't played with anybody all season. Now he has at least a bit of experience playing with other defenders.

Pass It To Bulis just posted a good article about this.
Nope. At the very least, he played with Ballard for a bit (now that was a disaster). Bieksa needs a reliable top four left side defensive defenseman as a partner to be effective (at both ends of the rink). Unfortunately for the Canucks, we have only one Hamhuis. Edler has his own problems in his own zone at times - so a Edler-Bieksa pairing won't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andbreatheme View Post
But he's been quite abysmal with defenders that aren't Hamhuis.
or Willie Mitchell (another reliable top four [then] defensive defenseman that played the left side).

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Old
03-21-2012, 04:48 PM
  #154
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What's interesting is that Hamhuis is +21 and Bieksa is +11 yet they play together 75% of the time. Extrapolated that's a differential of 40.

Malhotra and Hansen its -10 vs +12 but they only play together 34% of the time. Extrapolated that's a 33 differential.

OTOH, Wiese plays with Lapierre 70% of the time yet their differential is 10. Totally trashes the argument I was making.

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Old
03-21-2012, 04:48 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andbreatheme View Post
But he's been quite abysmal with defenders that aren't Hamhuis. Still a bit of concern there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Nope. At the very least, he played with Ballard for a bit (now that was a disaster). Bieksa needs a reliable top four left side defensive defenseman as a partner to be effective (at both ends of the rink). Unfortunately for the Canucks, we have only one Hamhuis. Edler has his own problems in his own zone at times - so a Edler-Bieksa pairing won't work.
So the solution is to ignore the problem and hope Hamhuis doesn't get injured?

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03-21-2012, 04:56 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by EroticBakery View Post
So the solution is to ignore the problem and hope Hamhuis doesn't get injured?
Seems to be good enough for Gillis with respect to Salo (eg., praying he don't get hurt).

And really....what are the chances of Hamhuis getting injured again vs Salo getting hurt again?

(and you're preaching to the choir....I've been saying we lack depth [as in a guy who can step in the top four at least for a period of time if anybody in the top four get hurt - especially since Salo is counted upon being in that top four - all season long (and in the pre-season)].

At least in Hamhuis' injury - it was a freak injury that isn't likely to happen again. Salo? No worries, we got Aaron Rome to take that spot......

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03-21-2012, 05:12 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Seems to be good enough for Gillis with respect to Salo (eg., praying he don't get hurt).

And really....what are the chances of Hamhuis getting injured again vs Salo getting hurt again?

(and you're preaching to the choir....I've been saying we lack depth [as in a guy who can step in the top four at least for a period of time if anybody in the top four get hurt - especially since Salo is counted upon being in that top four - all season long (and in the pre-season)].

At least in Hamhuis' injury - it was a freak injury that isn't likely to happen again. Salo? No worries, we got Aaron Rome to take that spot......
We're arguing two different things. My point is that it's foolish to say AV is a bad coach because he's jumbling the lines every game. These games don't matter, so he might as well give everybody as much practice playing with different players before the playoffs where the inevitable injuries will occur, especially if the Canucks make another long run.

I agree that our defensive depth is suspect, so why not let some of the lesser defensemen play some top 4 minutes during these garbage games so that they can gain at least a bit of experience?

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03-21-2012, 05:27 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by EroticBakery View Post
I agree that our defensive depth is suspect, so why not let some of the lesser defensemen play some top 4 minutes during these garbage games so that they can gain at least a bit of experience?
Too bad AV didn't have this line of thinking last season - when we have even less on the line given our place in the standings then - with respect to Ballard. At least it would've been easier to deal him this past-offseason (healthy scratches for an injury riddled team tends to limit his trade value especially if he has a fairly big contract).

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03-21-2012, 05:33 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Too bad AV didn't have this line of thinking last season - when we have even less on the line given our place in the standings - with respect to Ballard.
I think AV, as well as the rest of the Canucks, have learned a lesson and realized finishing first place isn't nearly as important as staying healthy and being well prepared for the playoffs.

They were caught up in the hype last season, and this year they're a little older and wiser.

If this lackluster play continues into the playoffs, and/or if AV continues to jumble the lines like this, then I might start reconsidering my stance on his employment.

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03-21-2012, 05:36 PM
  #160
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^

As a Canuckfan, I can only hope. But I've been waiting 40+ years, so what's another year or two, right?

(note: I myself never once called for AV's firing - though I have really questioned some of his decisions from time to time).

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03-21-2012, 05:46 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by EroticBakery View Post
I think AV, as well as the rest of the Canucks, have learned a lesson and realized finishing first place isn't nearly as important as staying healthy and being well prepared for the playoffs.
So when are they going to rest Henrik and Kesler? If Hank ends up getting hurt again because of his refusal to break that stupid ironman streak I'd say they haven't really learned from last year as much as they could have.

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03-21-2012, 05:53 PM
  #162
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So when are they going to rest Henrik and Kesler? If Hank ends up getting hurt again because of his refusal to break that stupid ironman streak I'd say they haven't really learned from last year as much as they could have.
I think the acquisition of Paulsson at least addresses some of your concern (him taking some of the tough defensive minutes that Kesler would otherwise get and let him concentrate more on offensive side of his game - which in turn would help take some of the pressure off the Sedins). Unfortunately, the plan isn't going as well as hoped; but you can't really question the logic.

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03-21-2012, 06:19 PM
  #163
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So when are they going to rest Henrik and Kesler? If Hank ends up getting hurt again because of his refusal to break that stupid ironman streak I'd say they haven't really learned from last year as much as they could have.
The Sedins are basically resting on the fly.

AV has been playing his top guys, especially Kesler, much less compared to last year. Sitting players out of games completely to rest them is rarely, if ever, done.

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03-21-2012, 06:26 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
I think the acquisition of Paulsson at least addresses some of your concern (him taking some of the tough defensive minutes that Kesler would otherwise get and let him concentrate more on offensive side of his game - which in turn would help take some of the pressure off the Sedins). Unfortunately, the plan isn't going as well as hoped; but you can't really question the logic.
But that's not really my point though, although what you said does make sense on its own. It seems the Sedins have just been labouring out there and maybe they'd be better off getting a rest after all the hockey they've played.

@EroticBakery: Contenders like Detroit do this year after year, and for good reason too. If your final regular season games are pretty meaningless why risk the injury? Same with Kesler.

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03-21-2012, 06:57 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by EroticBakery View Post
AV has been playing his top guys, especially Kesler, much less compared to last year.
That's not true. The icetime for the Sedins and Kesler is more or less identical to last year, both for the season and just for March.

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03-22-2012, 02:28 AM
  #166
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Didn't bother reading the article - I used to enjoy TG's insights but have lost complete interest in anything he writes - the last straw was when he trashed Hansen on 1040 in a pre-game a couple of weeks ago (the friggin' guy is like 5th on the team in ES points making $1.3M per playing with MM - not to mention he kills penalties, is a fearsome forechecker and brings tons of sandpaper to the lineup).
His MO seems to be write easy pickin's article that trash the team/coach/struggling player to garner attention sprinkled with the occasional good insight into something regarding the team.

As far as his understanding of how the game is played he's below average.

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04-08-2012, 01:17 AM
  #167
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04-08-2012, 01:23 AM
  #168
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his humor is quite amusing to watch and listen to. the only downside is coach a.v adapting to the opposing coach's stragety. thats my only knock on him. hope he can learn and change his approach when the going gets tough

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04-08-2012, 01:38 AM
  #169
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Did that team all go with playoff vigneault 'taches?

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04-08-2012, 01:40 AM
  #170
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Did that team all go with playoff vigneault 'taches?
Man thats an awesome stache. Why doesnt he let it grow more?

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Old
04-08-2012, 01:45 AM
  #171
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Man thats an awesome stache. Why doesnt he let it grow more?
Be awesome if Bieksa got the guys to go with playoff vig-taches instead if beards.

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04-08-2012, 01:50 AM
  #172
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I think it's safe to say he's the best coach we've had in our franchise's history. By far.

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04-08-2012, 02:33 AM
  #173
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I think it's safe to say he's the best coach we've had in our franchise's history. By far.
When the Canucks had a doofus like Bill LaForge as a head coach just about anyone looks terrific in comparison.

That said Vigneault is the best coach in franchise history.

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04-08-2012, 03:41 AM
  #174
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has anybody clipped after hours with AV yet? was it any good?

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Old
04-08-2012, 04:20 AM
  #175
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has anybody clipped after hours with AV yet? was it any good?
I liked it. Lots of AV laughing. AV is just such a likeable guy.

Add another vote for AV being greatest coach in Canucks history.

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