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Habs 1st rounder

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Old
02-09-2012, 03:25 PM
  #26
Routs
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
Well I have season tix to the Kitchener Rangers and to give you an example Faksa is ranked 10th and last year Reider ranked 73rd and last year Reider was visibly better than Faska. So yea this years draft may go down as one of the worst in a while and I can all but guarantee this is the year NJ gives up their 1st.
The only caution I'd give you is that draft rankings aren't purely on current play. A player's future development, size, speed, known issues, etc, all come into play. I know absolutely nothing about either player you mentioned but it's possible that scouts see something different about Faska that they believe he'll make a more bonafide NHLer vs. Reider.

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02-09-2012, 03:34 PM
  #27
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The only caution I'd give you is that draft rankings aren't purely on current play. A player's future development, size, speed, known issues, etc, all come into play. I know absolutely nothing about either player you mentioned but it's possible that scouts see something different about Faska that they believe he'll make a more bonafide NHLer vs. Reider.
Thats true but it looks like this will be a poopy draft and 1st rd picks won't carry the weight they did last year especially for the playoff bound teams.

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02-09-2012, 03:38 PM
  #28
Petro Points
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EDM doesnt draft by position but by BPA..
No way Dumba goes #1 .. I am guessing he will fall out of top 6.

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02-09-2012, 03:40 PM
  #29
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Thats true but it looks like this will be a poopy draft and 1st rd picks won't carry the weight they did last year especially for the playoff bound teams.
Last years draft was suppose to be one of the weakest and Yakupov was suppose to be the next best thing since Ovy.
The Dmen this draft are suppose to be one of the strongest ones in recent history.
Not sure why the sudden change now.

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02-09-2012, 03:47 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Last years draft was suppose to be one of the weakest and Yakupov was suppose to be the next best thing since Ovy.
The Dmen this draft are suppose to be one of the strongest ones in recent history.
Not sure why the sudden change now.
Last years draft was only lacking the super star kid but was super crazy deep in that its 1st rd quality stretched into the late 2nd if not into the end of the 2nd. This years draft seems to be the opposite in that is has the superstar but not the meat and potatoes. I'd say by mid 1st rd your getting into mid to late 2nd rd quality of last years draft.

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02-09-2012, 03:53 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
Last years draft was only lacking the super star kid but was super crazy deep in that its 1st rd quality stretched into the late 2nd if not into the end of the 2nd. This years draft seems to be the opposite in that is has the superstar but not the meat and potatoes. I'd say by mid 1st rd your getting into mid to late 2nd rd quality of last years draft.
I remember when everyone was saying that the 2011 draft was weak but the 2012 draft is strong. Face it, no one really knows how draft classes will turn out until years after so its impossible to make direct comparisons between what a top-10 pick is this year compared to last.

All we really know is that its the top-5 picks in this draft are very strong and the top-2 (Nail and Grigorenko) have separated themselves from the rest.

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02-09-2012, 03:58 PM
  #32
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I remember when everyone was saying that the 2011 draft was weak but the 2012 draft is strong. Face it, no one really knows how draft classes will turn out until years after so its impossible to make direct comparisons between what a top-10 pick is this year compared to last.

All we really know is that its the top-5 picks in this draft are very strong and the top-2 (Nail and Grigorenko) have separated themselves from the rest.
We will see but its allready been hinted that 1st rd picks in trades the deadline are going to carry less weight than last year. On TSN it was along the lines of "teams may be more willing to move 1st round picks this deadline than last year" and something like moving up may not be a priority because scouts seem to have completely different lists after 5th.

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02-09-2012, 04:01 PM
  #33
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We will see but its allready been hinted that 1st rd picks in trades the deadline are going to carry less weight than last year
Hinted by members of the media who want to inspire excitement and hype up expectations for the trade deadline so that they increase viewer-ship...

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02-09-2012, 04:08 PM
  #34
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Hinted by members of the media who want to inspire excitement and hype up expectations for the trade deadline so that they increase viewer-ship...
I have seen it in that Faksa is rated 10th this year and last year Reider was rated 73rd and last year Reider looked a fair amout better than faksa looks this year.

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02-09-2012, 04:58 PM
  #35
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Not really, I've got 29 others teams to cheer for !
A true hockey fan.
I love that you hate the Habs that much.All that jealousy. Must really burn your ass that we have a NHL club and you got dick all.

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02-09-2012, 05:17 PM
  #36
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And Nordique fans are dreaming of having a franchise in the NHL!
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A true hockey fan.
I love that you hate the Habs that much.All that jealousy. Must really burn your ass that we have a NHL club and you got dick all.



lol OWNED!


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Old
02-09-2012, 07:43 PM
  #37
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MTL:
1st 2012 (top 5)
2nd 2012
Louis leblanc

CAR:
Eric Staal

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Old
02-10-2012, 10:34 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
your "untouchables" are the only ones worth the 1st....

Habs need this pick more than they need the rangers 2nd tier players.
Fair enough, and you are entitled to your opinion.

If the Habs have enough that they just start to need star quality difference makers, then going after bluest blue chip makes sense and you are right.

But the right 4 or 5 + 1 or 2 picks for your 5 overall could be a good strategy to accelerate rebuilding if you are not where as I stated above.

Something like Sauer, Dubinsky, Boyle, St. Croix, Pashnin, Paveltenko + NYR 2013 first could be acceptably profitable if you agree on depth can = accelerated development if more than 1 guy can emerge/stay productive/go to next level.

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Old
02-10-2012, 10:49 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Fair enough, and you are entitled to your opinion.

If the Habs have enough that they just start to need star quality difference makers, then going after bluest blue chip makes sense and you are right.

But the right 4 or 5 + 1 or 2 picks for your 5 overall could be a good strategy to accelerate rebuilding if you are not where as I stated above.

Something like Sauer, Dubinsky, Boyle, St. Croix, Pashnin, Paveltenko + NYR 2013 first could be acceptably profitable if you agree on depth can = accelerated development if more than 1 guy can emerge/stay productive/go to next level.
Boyle and Dubinsky are the only two players with value in there, and both are probably worth a 2nd at best right now. AT BEST. Dubinsky is way overpaid for his production right now and Boyle is turning into a nice piece to a bigger puzzle.

The fact that you didn't add Kreider, Thomas, Erixon, Miller or even McIlrath is mind bogglingly hilarious.

What a ****ing joke.


Last edited by Bad Natey: 02-10-2012 at 10:54 AM.
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Old
02-10-2012, 11:32 AM
  #40
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I think that Montreal should keep there 1st round draft pick, with the likes of Pacioretty, Desharnais, Eller, Leblanc, Subban, Emelin, Gallagher, Kristo, Tinordi and Beaulieu coming in the future, all we need is that superstar 1st line centre a la Grigorenko or Galchenyuk.

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02-10-2012, 11:38 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Fair enough, and you are entitled to your opinion.

If the Habs have enough that they just start to need star quality difference makers, then going after bluest blue chip makes sense and you are right.

But the right 4 or 5 + 1 or 2 picks for your 5 overall could be a good strategy to accelerate rebuilding if you are not where as I stated above.

Something like Sauer, Dubinsky, Boyle, St. Croix, Pashnin, Paveltenko + NYR 2013 first could be acceptably profitable if you agree on depth can = accelerated development if more than 1 guy can emerge/stay productive/go to next level.
In a non-salary cap world i would agree with you. But with the cap in place quality (ie. bang for your buck) trumps quantity and depth.

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02-10-2012, 11:42 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by mikef18 View Post
MTL:
1st 2012 (top 5)
2nd 2012
Louis leblanc

CAR:
Eric Staal
can't work in more ways than 1
we'd have to many centers
ad caphit

the only way this works is if Plekanek is in the equation
so it would have to be something like 1st and Pleks

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Old
02-10-2012, 11:45 AM
  #43
Captain Smurf
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Originally Posted by mikef18 View Post
MTL:
1st 2012 (top 5)
2nd 2012
Louis leblanc

CAR:
Eric Staal
Doesn't work cap wise and I doubt Montreal includes a top-5 pick in a deal like that. The deal would have to be structured around Plekanec+ for Staal.

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Old
02-10-2012, 12:34 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Fair enough, and you are entitled to your opinion.

If the Habs have enough that they just start to need star quality difference makers, then going after bluest blue chip makes sense and you are right.

But the right 4 or 5 + 1 or 2 picks for your 5 overall could be a good strategy to accelerate rebuilding if you are not where as I stated above.

Something like Sauer, Dubinsky, Boyle, St. Croix, Pashnin, Paveltenko + NYR 2013 first could be acceptably profitable if you agree on depth can = accelerated development if more than 1 guy can emerge/stay productive/go to next level.
What about Staal, McIlraith and your 1st in 2012 for our 1st and 2nd in 2012? Not sure if either team does it because our main need is a big scoring center, but man would I love those 2 pieces on our blueline!

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Old
02-10-2012, 12:38 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
Doesn't work cap wise and I doubt Montreal includes a top-5 pick in a deal like that. The deal would have to be structured around Plekanec+ for Staal.
I'll Counter

Plekanec
for
Sutter + CAR 2012 1st

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Old
02-10-2012, 01:03 PM
  #46
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Boyle and Dubinsky are the only two players with value in there, and both are probably worth a 2nd at best right now. AT BEST. Dubinsky is way overpaid for his production right now and Boyle is turning into a nice piece to a bigger puzzle.

The fact that you didn't add Kreider, Thomas, Erixon, Miller or even McIlrath is mind bogglingly hilarious.

What a ****ing joke.
Bold = disagree.
Sauer is not chopped liver, and we expect him fully recovered.
St. Croix is a bonafide sniper at this level, well regarded by likes of Kevin Lowe,
Pashnin it's on you to get him here, but he could IMO crack your top 4 D without sweat.
V-tank has regressed. He got sent down last year cause Rangers couldn't risk waivers on somebody. He was injured in preseason. He hasn't played well to date, but as a cheap freebie with no risk, you could do worse.

Underline: Did not disqualify Thomas. See my original quote below.
Figured you wanted the cheaper St. Croix. Erixon will not go anywhere after what he did to get here. McIrath, I'll need since you're getting Sauer.

"Rangers would like to buy right after Cup run.
Untouchables: Kreider, Hagelin, Miller, Callahan, Lundqvist, McDonagh, MDZ
You are asking: ______________"

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Old
02-10-2012, 01:09 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
In a non-salary cap world i would agree with you. But with the cap in place quality (ie. bang for your buck) trumps quantity and depth.
I appreciate your honesty and conditional agreement.

The fact is probably somewhere in the middle.
It is difficult to win without at least 1 elite player, and the more the better.

On the other hand, for example, even if Pens have fully functional Crosby + Malkin, take away their depth, take away Letang + Staal, etc., and you don't have enough.

Need to have good depth, couple of difference makers.
Rangers getting there, but still need snipers, big shot for right handed D on pp + some more depth.

My ? to Canadiens is are habs better served with 5th guy, or a good enough package, and if the package, what is one that can possibly be agreed upon?

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02-10-2012, 01:11 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Bold = disagree.
Sauer is not chopped liver, and we expect him fully recovered.
St. Croix is a bonafide sniper at this level, well regarded by likes of Kevin Lowe,
Pashnin it's on you to get him here, but he could IMO crack your top 4 D without sweat.
V-tank has regressed. He got sent down last year cause Rangers couldn't risk waivers on somebody. He was injured in preseason. He hasn't played well to date, but as a cheap freebie with no risk, you could do worse.

Underline: Did not disqualify Thomas. See my original quote below.
Figured you wanted the cheaper St. Croix. Erixon will not go anywhere after what he did to get here. McIrath, I'll need since you're getting Sauer.

"Rangers would like to buy right after Cup run.
Untouchables: Kreider, Hagelin, Miller, Callahan, Lundqvist, McDonagh, MDZ
You are asking: ______________"
For the 2012 first, I don't think I would want any of your untouchables either, since Habs don't need Lundqvist. Chances are very strong Habs 1st round pick end up better than anybody on the Rangers not named Henrik, Brad or Marian (who I have no interest for either if the 2012 is in play).

I find in general Habs and Rangers aren't good trade partners. Rangers are a very strong & unified group of players (Torts' magic?), but they have no single outstanding individual I would be willing to overpay for. For fair value, sure, but fair value seems to have become an unattainable, abstract concept nowadays on this site.

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Old
02-10-2012, 01:14 PM
  #49
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
What about Staal, McIlraith and your 1st in 2012 for our 1st and 2nd in 2012? Not sure if either team does it because our main need is a big scoring center, but man would I love those 2 pieces on our blueline!
Thank you!
This is the kind of thinking I was hoping for, in pushing the envelope.

Agree not sure I do this deal either.
Counter offer:

Girardi, Anisimov, Boyle, Woywitka + Stalman for Habs 2012 1st and 2013 2nd

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02-10-2012, 01:17 PM
  #50
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Thank you!
This is the kind of thinking I was hoping for, in pushing the envelope.

Agree not sure I do this deal either.
Counter offer:

Girardi, Anisimov, Boyle, Woywitka + Stalman for Habs 2012 1st and 2013 2nd
That's not really a counter offer since you've removed every single piece from the initial offer (Staal, McIlrath and NYR 1st).

I think you're trying to screw the Habs big time with your quantity for quality packages.

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