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R.Nash to NYR

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Old
02-09-2012, 12:34 PM
  #1
Ke11y96
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R.Nash to NYR

I know its far fetched, I know he has the ntc/nmc in his current deal, and I know he's 7.8 Million a year for quite a while. Regardless what would it take to land him? I read in a Garrioch article that the rumored asking price is a young top forward, prospect, and a 1st. To me thats probably a bit less than Columbus would actually want. I figure rather than try and sell Columbus on prospects which clearly have a difficult time working out there. I figure they would be better off getting clear NHL talent that has proven to sustain their game in the NHL. If I were a Columbus Blue Jackets fan and I saw my best player traded away i'd want it to be for pieces that made the team strong immediately especially since their going to land a top player at this upcoming draft.

So flame away if needed, but would the following be close?

Dubinsky + Anisimov + Zuccarello/or Wolski + 1st

for

Nash

It would give Columbus depth players that are hard working and just Dubinsky and Anisimov alone make up for the contribution they're losing in Nash.

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Old
02-09-2012, 12:55 PM
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No reason to trade Nash if we aren't getting quality D and/or goaltending. No thanks.

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02-09-2012, 12:56 PM
  #3
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I love how the entire NHL seems to think Columbus needs depth players.

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Old
02-09-2012, 01:02 PM
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ziggy7716
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Why is it that Ranger fans include Wolski and Zuccarello in 90% of their proposals. Zuccarello is a smaller version of Rob Schremp, he's as soft as my pillow, at this point there a real good chance he will never be a every day NHL player. Wolski has negative value at this point. Columbus or any other team for that matter don't want them. Only things that the OP got right was the 1st and Dubinsky. Dubinskys salary will help kind of offset losing Nash. To get Nash the Rangers would have to add 1 of Stepan/Kreider/Staal to that deal. Your not getting Rick Nash for next to nothing

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02-09-2012, 01:10 PM
  #5
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by ziggy7716 View Post
Why is it that Ranger fans include Wolski and Zuccarello in 90% of their proposals. Zuccarello is a smaller version of Rob Schremp, he's as soft as my pillow, at this point there a real good chance he will never be a every day NHL player. Wolski has negative value at this point. Columbus or any other team for that matter don't want them. Only things that the OP got right was the 1st and Dubinsky. Dubinskys salary will help kind of offset losing Nash. To get Nash the Rangers would have to add 1 of Stepan/Kreider/Staal to that deal. Your not getting Rick Nash for next to nothing
This plus contract size is why there can be no deal unless instead, which is not gonna happen this year, if Brad Richards were moved, a 1+ for 1+.

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Old
02-09-2012, 03:42 PM
  #6
msv957
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Originally Posted by Ke11y96 View Post
I know its far fetched, I know he has the ntc/nmc in his current deal, and I know he's 7.8 Million a year for quite a while. Regardless what would it take to land him? I read in a Garrioch article that the rumored asking price is a young top forward, prospect, and a 1st. To me thats probably a bit less than Columbus would actually want. I figure rather than try and sell Columbus on prospects which clearly have a difficult time working out there. I figure they would be better off getting clear NHL talent that has proven to sustain their game in the NHL. If I were a Columbus Blue Jackets fan and I saw my best player traded away i'd want it to be for pieces that made the team strong immediately especially since their going to land a top player at this upcoming draft.

So flame away if needed, but would the following be close?

Dubinsky + Anisimov + Zuccarello/or Wolski + 1st

for

Nash

It would give Columbus depth players that are hard working and just Dubinsky and Anisimov alone make up for the contribution they're losing in Nash.
Sather would fire up the fax in a second!

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Old
02-09-2012, 04:07 PM
  #7
smoneil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ke11y96 View Post
I know its far fetched, I know he has the ntc/nmc in his current deal, and I know he's 7.8 Million a year for quite a while. Regardless what would it take to land him? I read in a Garrioch article that the rumored asking price is a young top forward, prospect, and a 1st. To me thats probably a bit less than Columbus would actually want. I figure rather than try and sell Columbus on prospects which clearly have a difficult time working out there. I figure they would be better off getting clear NHL talent that has proven to sustain their game in the NHL. If I were a Columbus Blue Jackets fan and I saw my best player traded away i'd want it to be for pieces that made the team strong immediately especially since their going to land a top player at this upcoming draft.

So flame away if needed, but would the following be close?

Dubinsky + Anisimov + Zuccarello/or Wolski + 1st

for

Nash

It would give Columbus depth players that are hard working and just Dubinsky and Anisimov alone make up for the contribution they're losing in Nash.

Rick Nash is a very good player--he isn't a superstar. I have no idea why people keep thinking that he is. He's nowhere close to being a ppg player, and he doesn't make much of an attempt to play defense (granted, I only watch him about 10 or 11 times per year, so I'm sure Columbus fans will be arriving soon to tell me he's a Selke player in the other 72 games).

There's nothing really wrong with that (being a very good player who focuses solely on offense), except for one key thing--he's being paid a superstar's paycheck.

-The Rangers can't afford him.
-He plays a position the Rangers don't need (RW).
-He's just not worth the kind of return in the OP (a 1st and two young 40-50 point players who bring phenomenal defense).

I realize that he's Columbus' franchise player and they would want a king's ransom for him. My fellow Rangers fans need to realize that he's the franchise player of a team that has consistently gone nowhere in his time there. Lundqvist drags poor teams into the playoffs. Crosby turned the Pens into a respectable team. Nash racked up stats on one basement team after another. He's not worth blowing up the Rangers' core.

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Old
02-09-2012, 04:25 PM
  #8
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I don't know if the rumor that Nash might be on the market is true but if it is, I would pay what needed for sure. I've seen the guy play many times and this guy is a horse with a ton of skills. Is numbers are probably not so impressive only because he plays in CLB. As a habs fan I would offer:
Plekanec + Montreal 1st 2012 or maybe even
Plekanec -- Subban

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Old
02-09-2012, 04:30 PM
  #9
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Rick Nash is the real deal, he's been carrying the Blue Jackets on his back for 9 years and still able to put up some impressive numbers since his debut. Put him in a better hockey environment with better teammates and he'll flourish. The only reason we hear of that team is cuz of him.

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Old
02-09-2012, 04:31 PM
  #10
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Far too much for an albatross.

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Old
02-09-2012, 04:37 PM
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Briecheeze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Lundqvist drags poor teams into the playoffs. Crosby turned the Pens into a respectable team. Nash racked up stats on one basement team after another. He's not worth blowing up the Rangers' core.
Lundqvist's teams had talented players like Jagr, and more recently, Gaborik, Staal, Stepan, etc.

Crosby's Penguins were terrible until they got some depth - Letang emerged, they traded for Hossa, and drafted some better pieces and good trades. Not to mention having Marc-Andre Fleury and Evgeni Malkin.

It's not Nash's fault he's been saddled with some truly terrible teams, and when his team finally got good goaltending and some good pieces in 2009, they made the playoffs (and he had 40 goals and 79 points in 78 games). He may not quite be a PPG player, but that's because he's never had a good center to play with, and as a winger, his job is to score, not rack up the point and assist totals.

17, 41, 31, 27, 38, 40, 33, 32. Those are the numbers which Rick Nash can realistically be judged by - his goal totals, and the way he manufactures offense.

Superstars can only do so much - it's a team game. I can't wait to see what Rick Nash does when/if he gets a good team around him.


Last edited by Briecheeze: 02-09-2012 at 04:43 PM.
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Old
02-09-2012, 04:45 PM
  #12
smoneil
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Originally Posted by Briecheeze View Post
Lundqvist didn't drag the Rangers into the playoffs until he got good players like Gaborik, Stepan, Staal, etc.

Crosby's Penguins were terrible until they got some depth - Letang emerged, they traded for Hossa, and drafted some better pieces.

It's not Nash's fault he's been saddled with some truly terrible teams, and when his team finally got good goaltending and some good pieces in 2009, they made the playoffs (and he had 40 goals and 79 points in 78 games). He may not quite be a PPG player, but that's because he's never had a good center to play with, and as a winger, his job is to score, not rack up the point and assist totals.

17, 41, 31, 27, 38, 40, 33, 32. Those are the numbers which Rick Nash can realistically be judged by - his goal totals.

Superstars can only do so much - it's a team game. I can't wait to see what Rick Nash does when/if he gets a good team around him.

Lundqvist has been dragging the Rangers into the playoffs since 2005 (ie- long before Stepan came around and before Staal became the player he is). Crosby's Penguins only had Hossa for one playoff run. Hossa has nothing to do with Crosby dragging the Pens into the playoffs in his 2nd season. Nash is a good player, but he's no superstar. He's not close to notching ppg, his defense is horrendous and while he may have "put Columbus on his back," he hasn't carried them anywhere good. He's a 65-70 point player on a 100-point player's contract. No way should the Rangers give up close to the OP for that.

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Old
02-09-2012, 04:46 PM
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Far too much for an albatross.
What exactly does he prevent the Jackets from accomplishing?

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Old
02-09-2012, 05:15 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Lundqvist has been dragging the Rangers into the playoffs since 2005 (ie- long before Stepan came around and before Staal became the player he is). Crosby's Penguins only had Hossa for one playoff run. Hossa has nothing to do with Crosby dragging the Pens into the playoffs in his 2nd season. Nash is a good player, but he's no superstar. He's not close to notching ppg, his defense is horrendous and while he may have "put Columbus on his back," he hasn't carried them anywhere good. He's a 65-70 point player on a 100-point player's contract. No way should the Rangers give up close to the OP for that.
You obviously don't watch him very often. He's one of the more defensively sound forwards in the league. Additionally, I'll argue he's a 65-70 point player by himself. With someone like Brad Richards he'd be that 100 point player he's paid to be.

Regardless, Columbus and the Rangers aren't good trading partners. 10minutemisconduct recently had a good article on the Jackets potential overhaul. He said Nash would net a young #1 goalie (Schnieder/Bernier) + a frontline defenseman (Jack Johnson) + a pick/prospect.

The Rangers don't have the goalie to give up, they won't give up one of their frontline defensemen. Therefore it's a bad match.

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02-09-2012, 05:20 PM
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Briecheeze
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Lundqvist has been dragging the Rangers into the playoffs since 2005 (ie- long before Stepan came around and before Staal became the player he is). Crosby's Penguins only had Hossa for one playoff run. Hossa has nothing to do with Crosby dragging the Pens into the playoffs in his 2nd season. Nash is a good player, but he's no superstar. He's not close to notching ppg, his defense is horrendous and while he may have "put Columbus on his back," he hasn't carried them anywhere good. He's a 65-70 point player on a 100-point player's contract. No way should the Rangers give up close to the OP for that.
I said he had Jagr, who was a few points away from the Art Ross in 2005-06. It's also hard to compare a goalie to a winger.

Sorry, I shouldn't have mentioned Hossa, because they got him as a Cup run trade deadline pick-up, but Crosby still had much more talent than Nash to work with.

Nash may be not great defensively, but not that many superstars are/others get a pass. As for the PPG pace - his last three seasons he's had 66 in 75, 67, in 76, and 79 in 78. That's pretty close.

Nash might not be on par with say, Crosby and Malkin, but he's still a star in the league. You might not like his contract, and he doesn't seem like a great fit on the Rangers, but I'm pretty sure that every team would love to have a Rick Nash on their roster.

The best comparison I can probably make to Nash is someone like a Thomas Vanek or a Jarome Iginla - scoring wingers who need help from their teams. (Note: I'm not actually saying that Nash is better than Iginla, or anything to rile up Flames fans, but it's a decent comparison.)

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02-09-2012, 05:39 PM
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smoneil
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I said he had Jagr, who was a few points away from the Art Ross in 2005-06. It's also hard to compare a goalie to a winger.

Sorry, I shouldn't have mentioned Hossa, because they got him as a Cup run trade deadline pick-up, but Crosby still had much more talent than Nash to work with.
Jagr's numbers went down in 06/07, and especially from that point on, it was Lundqvist that made the difference between the Rangers being a bubble playoff team and a lottery team. Crosby did have more talent around him, but Nash has had his share of support as well (Zherdev, Vyborny, Vermette, Umberger, Carter this year, Voracek--none of these guys are Malkin, but none of them are slouches, either).

Quote:
Nash may be not great defensively, but not that many superstars are/others get a pass. As for the PPG pace - his last three seasons he's had 66 in 75, 67, in 76, and 79 in 78. That's pretty close.

Nash might not be on par with say, Crosby and Malkin, but he's still a star in the league. You might not like his contract, and he doesn't seem like a great fit on the Rangers, but I'm pretty sure that every team would love to have a Rick Nash on their roster.
That's just it--the guys who don't play much defense are putting up much better numbers to earn that kind of salary. Nash isn't a ppg player. He's done it twice in his career, and his career totals are way off that pace. EVERY team would love to have a Rick Nash on their roster, but I can't think of too many that would A- Want him at that salary and B- be willing to give up important pieces of a first place team to trade for him.


Quote:
The best comparison I can probably make to Nash is someone like a Thomas Vanek or a Jarome Iginla - scoring wingers who need help from their teams. (Note: I'm not actually saying that Nash is better than Iginla, or anything to rile up Flames fans, but it's a decent comparison.)
I wouldn't disagree with this at all. I think Vanek in particular is a great comparable. I'm not hating on Nash--I'm just arguing that he gets elevated to superstar status when he shouldn't be.


Last edited by smoneil: 02-09-2012 at 06:08 PM.
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02-09-2012, 05:44 PM
  #17
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You obviously don't watch him very often. He's one of the more defensively sound forwards in the league. Additionally, I'll argue he's a 65-70 point player by himself. With someone like Brad Richards he'd be that 100 point player he's paid to be.
I watch him about 10 or 11 times a season. Like I said in my first post, he may be doing something different in the other 70 games, but the guy I saw ranged anywhere between "atrocious" and "serviceable" on defense. He was nowhere near being "one of the more defensively sound forwards in the league." As for your second point--If the Rangers are giving up homegrown, affordable, top-6 players AND a first round pick (Wolski and MZA aren't worth figuring into the equation imo), they had better be getting a guy who has DEMONSTRATED 100-point capability to commit to Nash's salary. Nash has never come close to that. Frankly, your comment about Nash sounds eerily similar to the claims we heard from some Rangers fans regarding the Gomez signing. They were positive that Gomez would put up insane numbers with Jagr. It never happened.

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02-09-2012, 05:44 PM
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Why would the Rangers want that awful contract? How about we sign Parise as a UFA and save our assets.

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02-09-2012, 05:50 PM
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Why would the Rangers want that awful contract? How about we sign Parise as a UFA and save our assets.
If you think Carter's contract is bad, just wait until you see what Parise ends up with. I'll guarantee it's at least 7 million cap hit (unless he pulls out a retirement contract) and most likely longer than 5 years.

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02-09-2012, 05:57 PM
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If you think Carter's contract is bad, just wait until you see what Parise ends up with. I'll guarantee it's at least 7 million cap hit (unless he pulls out a retirement contract) and most likely longer than 5 years.
I would love that deal for Parise. He's better, in every facet of the game, than Carter. And he doesn't have any questionable character traits.

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02-09-2012, 06:02 PM
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Rick Nash is a very good player, but the Rangers could not realistically fit his contract into their cap structure. They already have 3 $6.5M+ contracts on the cap, and, as smoneil brought up, they are set at top-6 RW. Obviously, you're always looking for upgrades, but unless they play Nash at LW, it makes no sense whatsoever - even then, as I pointed out, there is almost no way the Rangers could realistically fit in that contract without drastic changes, and why would a first place team make drastic changes?

The price would be too high for Sather anyway. When was the last time Sather made a blockbuster deal (Gomez deal doesn't really count--I'm talking about ADDING a high profile player via trade for several valuable pieces). He doesn't make that many huge trades.

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02-09-2012, 06:07 PM
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I think Dubinsky + Staal for Nash would be good for both teams.

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02-09-2012, 06:55 PM
  #23
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Nash reminds me of Danny Heatly, overrated, selfish and not a winner. Nash isn't worth trading a team's future for!


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02-09-2012, 07:16 PM
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Nash is severly overpaid

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02-09-2012, 10:25 PM
  #25
The Amity Affliction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
You obviously don't watch him very often. He's one of the more defensively sound forwards in the league. Additionally, I'll argue he's a 65-70 point player by himself. With someone like Brad Richards he'd be that 100 point player he's paid to be.

Regardless, Columbus and the Rangers aren't good trading partners. 10minutemisconduct recently had a good article on the Jackets potential overhaul. He said Nash would net a young #1 goalie (Schnieder/Bernier) + a frontline defenseman (Jack Johnson) + a pick/prospect.

The Rangers don't have the goalie to give up, they won't give up one of their frontline defensemen. Therefore it's a bad match.
Absolutely not.

While I'll admit that although I do have center ice, and I don't watch the Jackets nearly as much as you do, that's not true.

His defense isn't horrendous, but at the same time, this is not a guy that comes anywhere near close to finishing as a Selke finalist (top-10) like you seem to be suggesting here.

You need to watch a lot of other different players and teams play if you think Nash is one of the more sound defensive forwards in the league.

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