Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated"Rated PG13, unmoderated but threads must stay on topic - that means you can flame each other all you want as long as it's legal
Political Stuff That Just Ain't Thread Worthy - Part IV
The GOP's War on Women is in full swing. Too bad for Mitt Romney that it's likely costing him huge numbers of votes to Obama from women, based on the polling trends being observed.
This whole birth control debate must be part of the GOP's strategy to appeal to women voters.
Obama beat McCain among women voters by 56-43. I guess the GOP has looked at that result and decided that 43% is just too darn high, and they can get that number lower.
It is so amusing how you lefties just read your huffpo, or media matters and just march in lock-step spewing what is fed to you.
This is not about contraception. It has never been about contraception. Tell me, was access to contraception a problem prior to the dictate from the Dictator? The answer is a resounding HELL NO!
Contraception has been around as long as anyone here can remember, and at no time has anyone tried to ban it. As a matter of fact, many insurance providers already cover it, and if a woman does not have it, there are agencies such as planned parenthood that will dispense them cheaply, or free.
The issue here is threefold.
One, Obama is in trouble with woman voters. Say what you want about 2008, Obama is losing the woman vote. Let's create a crisis by declaring that Republicans that oppose his contraception mandate are against women's health. That's right, something completely elective, like contraception, somehow becomes an issue crucial to women's health. Something that wasn't a problem, magically becomes one, and offers another nice distraction for Obama to boot.
Two, it is about government over-reach, and control. If Obama can control religious organizations, and their health-care coverage, then he controls them completely. Today he goes after the church, who does he go after tomorrow.
It is also about de-facto government control of health-care. No single-payer government system? No problem! Just order the "private" insurance companies to do your bidding. Once you have crushed them out of existence, *presto*, save society by riding in with your single-payer government system.
You are fooled, the media is fooled (or just does the usual and parrots what they are told to parrot), and women are fooled into supporting Obama again.
So, more and more, instead of individual sovereignty, and the ability to choose, and determine what kind of health care plan we want, we are all forced into a one size fits all plan. Gee, I am so glad that my wife and I will have access to that free contraception, even though we don't need it, and will never use it. Somehow we did just fine purchasing our own when we did need it. But hey, that forces us to pay for it so that others get it "free".
There is no such thing as a free lunch, and this will increase health care costs for everyone.
You are fooled, the media is fooled (or just does the usual and parrots what they are told to parrot), and women are fooled into supporting Obama again.
It is so amusing how you lefties just read your huffpo, or media matters and just march in lock-step spewing what is fed to you.
This is not about contraception. It has never been about contraception. Tell me, was access to contraception a problem prior to the dictate from the Dictator? The answer is a resounding HELL NO!
Contraception has been around as long as anyone here can remember, and at no time has anyone tried to ban it. As a matter of fact, many insurance providers already cover it, and if a woman does not have it, there are agencies such as planned parenthood that will dispense them cheaply, or free.
The issue here is threefold.
One, Obama is in trouble with woman voters. Say what you want about 2008, Obama is losing the woman vote. Let's create a crisis by declaring that Republicans that oppose his contraception mandate are against women's health. That's right, something completely elective, like contraception, somehow becomes an issue crucial to women's health. Something that wasn't a problem, magically becomes one, and offers another nice distraction for Obama to boot.
Two, it is about government over-reach, and control. If Obama can control religious organizations, and their health-care coverage, then he controls them completely. Today he goes after the church, who does he go after tomorrow.
It is also about de-facto government control of health-care. No single-payer government system? No problem! Just order the "private" insurance companies to do your bidding. Once you have crushed them out of existence, *presto*, save society by riding in with your single-payer government system.
You are fooled, the media is fooled (or just does the usual and parrots what they are told to parrot), and women are fooled into supporting Obama again.
So, more and more, instead of individual sovereignty, and the ability to choose, and determine what kind of health care plan we want, we are all forced into a one size fits all plan. Gee, I am so glad that my wife and I will have access to that free contraception, even though we don't need it, and will never use it. Somehow we did just fine purchasing our own when we did need it. But hey, that forces us to pay for it so that others get it "free".
There is no such thing as a free lunch, and this will increase health care costs for everyone.
-- Santorum: Says he wouldn't try to take away the pill or condoms. But he believes states should be free to ban them if they want. He argues that the Supreme Court erred when it ruled in 1965 that Americans have a right to privacy that includes the use of contraceptives.
Birth control, even within marriage, violates his beliefs as a Catholic. Last year Santorum told the Christian blog Caffeinated Thoughts that as president he would warn the nation about "the dangers of contraception" and the permissive culture it encourages. "Many of Christian faith have said, `Well, that's OK. Contraception is OK,"' he said. "It's not OK. It's a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be. ... If it's not for purposes of procreation, then you diminish this very special bond between men and women."
Foster Friess, a prominent backer of Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum, raised eyebrows Thursday when he offered up his own idea for a possible contraceptive method: "This contraceptive thing, my gosh, it's so... inexpensive. Back in my days, they used Bayer aspirin for contraceptives."
Friess's implication is that if women hold aspirin between their legs, they won't open them.
"The gals put it between their knees, and it wasn't that costly," he told MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell.
Abortion; informed consent. Requires that, as a component of informed consent to an abortion, to determine gestation age, every pregnant female shall undergo ultrasound imaging and be given an opportunity to view the ultrasound image of her fetus prior to the abortion. The medical professional performing the ultrasound must obtain written certification from the woman that the opportunity was offered and whether the woman availed herself of the opportunity to see the ultrasound image or hear the fetal heartbeat. A copy of the ultrasound and the written certification shall be maintained in the woman's medical records at the facility where the abortion is to be performed. This bill incorporates SB 279 (Smith).
Del. David Englin (D) is sharply criticizing a Republican-supported “informed consent” bill that requires women to undergo an ultrasound before getting an abortion.
The bill, which passed the House of Delegates yesterday and the state Senate two weeks ago, would require an ultrasound to determine a fetus’ gestation age. It would then give the woman the option to view the ultrasound before her abortion.
Englin said the bill represents a level of government intrusion that “shocks the conscience.” According to Englin’s office:
… only an invasive transvaginal probe ultrasound can effectively determine gestation age during much of the first trimester, which is when most abortions occur. Englin offered an amendment to require the pregnant woman’s consent prior to subjecting her to a vaginal penetration ultrasound, but House Republicans rejected the amendment by a vote of 64 to 34.
Oh yes Planned Parenthood. That awful thing that the GOP and Tea Party so desperately want to defund.
Mt. Pleasant, SC - The Rick Santorum for President campaign announced that Abby Johnson, former employee of and now national nemesis of Planned Parenthood, has endorsed Rick Santorum for President.
Abby Johnson said: "I am proud to give my personal endorsement to Senator Rick Santorum, a true champion of the unborn. While Senator Santorum has other outstanding qualities that would make him a wonderful President of the United States, his focus on protecting life in its most vulnerable stages speaks magnitudes about his values and morals as a leader. By valuing life in all its stages, Senator Santorum displays the courage that is needed to turn this country around.
When a society devalues life, from the unborn to the elderly and disabled, morals and values are thrown to the wayside to the detriment of all its citizens. As I saw during my time working at Planned Parenthood, when life is devalued, unborn babies and their mothers just become another way to boost the bottom dollar.
Senator Rick Santorum has the courage to lead by morals and absolute truths, which I find refreshing. He is a man of integrity and faith and I am proud to publicly offer my endorsement."
Rick Santorum said: "It is a true honor to receive Abby's endorsement. Abby is a woman of courage and conviction. Her stand against Planned Parenthood is something to be admired, and her stand for life is unquestioned. To receive her endorsement is a terrific boon to our campaign, and reaffirms my strong commitment to standing up for the dignity of each and every life - both the born and the unborn. I look forward to working with Abby to finally defund Planned Parenthood and advance our shared message of faith, family and freedom."
Even more disgusting than that Virginia forced ultrasound penetration bill is some of the things the bill's supporters are saying in an attempt to justify it. Horribly offensive comments such as "the woman already consented to be penetrated [by a penis]" that border on ****-justification.
This is not about contraception. It has never been about contraception. Tell me, was access to contraception a problem prior to the dictate from the Dictator? The answer is a resounding HELL NO!
For many Republicans, this is entirely about contraceptives. The Obamacare coverage mandate simply served as a nice launching off point.
"I'm pro-life and I don't want to encourage any medical professionals including PAs to be able to do that," the Napoleon Republican said after the vote.
To many Republicans, it's not about Obama, Obamacare, or anything but the desire to outlaw contraceptives. If that can't be accomplished, they are going to push to make them harder to access or more expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Fire
Contraception has been around as long as anyone here can remember, and at no time has anyone tried to ban it.
Yes, they have. The whole genesis of the right to privacy line of cases that made Roe v. Wade so famous was a case where the Supreme Court found a law banning contraceptives to be unconstitutional. When Rick Santorum says he does not believe we have a right to privacy, that's what he's talking about. He wants to strip away our right to privacy to make it easy for government to outlaw contraceptives, abortion, and the gays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Fire
Two, it is about government over-reach, and control. If Obama can control religious organizations, and their health-care coverage, then he controls them completely.
Keep in mind that while you may call a government demand that prescription medicines be covered as overreach, also realize the loudest voices in this would eagerly impose government power to totally deny women access to those same prescription medicines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Fire
Today he goes after the church, who does he go after tomorrow.
You are fooled, the media is fooled (or just does the usual and parrots what they are told to parrot), and women are fooled into supporting Obama again.
Or maybe women are starting to look at a fringe element of the Republican party that has a loud voice right now and are waking up to how life could be very different if those people got power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Fire
So, more and more, instead of individual sovereignty, and the ability to choose, and determine what kind of health care plan we want, we are all forced into a one size fits all plan. Gee, I am so glad that my wife and I will have access to that free contraception, even though we don't need it, and will never use it. Somehow we did just fine purchasing our own when we did need it. But hey, that forces us to pay for it so that others get it "free".
There is no such thing as a free lunch, and this will increase health care costs for everyone.
That is true for lots and lots of things covered by health insurance. No one in my family has sickle-cell anemia or diabetes. Should I be outraged that part of my insurance cost is driven by paying for care of folks suffering from those diseases? Hell, you and I won't ever need a mammogram. Why are we paying for those?
Last edited by Troy McClure: 02-17-2012 at 10:37 AM.
I bet you're also the type that thinks the Civil War wasn't really about slavery.
I don't want to get into this argument but...it also goes on the opposite side of the coin that people only think the Civil War was just about slavery.
I don't want to get into this argument but...it also goes on the opposite side of the coin that people only think the Civil War was just about slavery.
On that note; why does health care cover viagra?
Because ALL men and MOST women want cheap Viagra. Duh...
__________________
History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
Yet unemployment is still high and Pepsico is cutting jobs.
Unemployment is a lagging indicator.
On the other hand, I agree with the basic point you are making (given which post you responded to) that the stock market is not a great measure of economic health.
because some people would like to continue having a normal sex life and can't help it if their dong stops working.
let's put it this way, if we're not going to cover for ED, then why are we covering treatments for smokers, or heart disease treatment for fatties? after all, those people are probably a lot more responsible for their health issue than the guy who can't get it up any more.
Yet unemployment is still high and Pepsico is cutting jobs.
At some point you're going to have to admit that the economy has improved since Obama took office. The GOP hysteria about how bad the economy is under Obama is falling on more and more deaf ears, since the markets are up, unemployment is decreasing, and GDP growth is up (a poor measure of the economy, but still). The GOP just can't win 2012 with your line of thinking because people aren't buying it anymore. Things are improving, slowly but surely.
At some point you're going to have to admit that the economy has improved since Obama took office. The GOP hysteria about how bad the economy is under Obama is falling on more and more deaf ears, since the markets are up, unemployment is decreasing, and GDP growth is up (a poor measure of the economy, but still). The GOP just can't win 2012 with your line of thinking because people aren't buying it anymore. Things are improving, slowly but surely.
Of course, but it's not hard for the economy to improve after it hits rock bottom.
Saying that the economy has improved since Obama took office is exactly the same as saying that the economy has improved since the Penguins last won the Stanley Cup.
Of course, but it's not hard for the economy to improve after it hits rock bottom.
Saying that the economy has improved since Obama took office is exactly the same as saying that the economy has improved since the Penguins last won the Stanley Cup.
Silly all around. The economy may have gotten a bit worse, a lot worse, been exactly the same, been a bit better or been a lot better. Nobody knows what would have happened if John McManyhouses and Caribou Barbie would have swept to power, or if Hillary would have taken the Dem nomination. All guesswork (in any direction).
Last edited by Doppler Drift: 02-18-2012 at 03:12 PM.
