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Old
02-10-2012, 05:04 AM
  #26
wedge
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the only reason I would trade Plekanec is for an upgrade. No interest in trading him for futures.

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02-10-2012, 05:26 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Specifically talking about Plekanec here, but it applies to other scenarios as well. When people say "Oh Eller is developing well, Plekanec is now expendable" "Desharnais made more points, Plekanec can be moved" then we project these lines with Eller and DD in top 2 center positions.

EVEN if we assume Eller and DD become legit, consistent 2nd line centers, what's the obsession with riding ourselves of Plekanec or any other player in a similar circumstance?

This isn't Halak vs Price where only 1 will play 60 games. This is forwards, d-men...Where many can play.

Why do we want to tear down depth as soon as we get it? It's annoying as hell.

Granted, if we're talking about an upgrade and you gotta give to get, I understand, but a lot of times I read garbage about trading Plekanec for futures. Really? Why? I find it borderline moronic.

Again, it applies to many situations, but in this particular situation, a top two-way center is great. Why do we even discuss trading Plek for a non-upgrade just because Eller and DD may become good consistent players.

Pittsburg has Crosby Malkin and Staal. Why is it forbidden for us to have a decent 3 way combo?

Just a pet peeve I guess. Anyone else annoyed by this?
If either one of pleks or DD were a true number 1 center or a big number 2 center then I don't think you woul see as many people wanting to trade pleks. Sadly, both pleks and DD are undersized number 2 centers and with eller as our 3rd center, we need to upgrade and have a true number 1 center with a big body in order to take the next step and compete with the upper echelon in the nhl, hence all the pleks proposals...

Its not a bad a idea to trade pleks+ for an upgrade because he does have great value on a good contract, but if pleks can't be replaced, then we have no choice but to keep him...

But if we can get that big number 1 center, then I say trade pleks and get the best value for him...

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02-10-2012, 06:20 AM
  #28
Monctonscout
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The only situation I can see trading Plekanec is 1-we get a star player back and he is a big part of the deal(Nash Staal Backstrom Getzlaf etc) and most of those guys are pretty much untoucheable or their contracts(cap hit/money or coming up UFA's) make it hard to trade for them. 2-it's a package of youth but overpayment, like Yakupov or Schenn and Voracek.

At the end of the day, this team needs to stay mostly intact and make the playoffs next year for the young core(Price Subban Diaz Weber Emelin Pacioretty DD Eller etc) to progress.

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02-10-2012, 07:27 AM
  #29
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So you are comparing Malkin Crosby Staal to Eller DD and Plekachu.......................................... ..................

Plekanec is the only center of this team that is allergic to the center of the ice(forget gomes)....and also manage to come second in every 1v1 battles at ES. Im not the first one to say he plays like a good little girl, he said it.

17 years and couting of mediocrity.

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Old
02-10-2012, 07:32 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couris View Post
So you are comparing Malkin Crosby Staal to Eller DD and Plekachu.......................................... ..................

Plekanec is the only center of this team that is allergic to the center of the ice(forget gomes)....and also manage to come second in every 1v1 battles at ES. Im not the first one to say he plays like a good little girl, he said it.

17 years and couting of mediocrity.
you should watch Habs games sometimes.

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Old
02-10-2012, 07:39 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
what logic is this bro ?

Sid , Malkin and Staal might be the best 1-3 punch of all time , and have won a cup

wtf on earth are we going to win with the midget , DD , and Eller as 1-3 ?

go back to any cup team and tell me who ever won with this talent down the middle

how many times have we seen this broken record where Pleks disappears in clutch playoff games ?

budddy its vision and we dont have it moving forward .

this is why we will miss the playoffs this year , we need a fken rebuild and now
DD and Pleks can`t be your 1-2 , period , you cant win

dd on 20 teams minimum wont play in this league so why are we content for mediocrity ? we are losing for f sakes

even as good as Cole has played like I said B4 , what are we a Cole away from ?

total joke how a 34 year old pick up might be our best player this year

Pleks is the one you move while he still has value in this league and you should do well in a deal cause he might be a solid option on good teams as a complimentary center

Eller to do size , wheels , and defensive awareness is a legit possibility as #2

for a player who gets no pp time, plays with crap most nights, he has more goals , a better shot and can easily outscore the midget if given his role .

Leblanc has game folks , he should eventually be our #1 in time .

he wont be your prototypical #1 center but has a solid IQ , and offensive creativity and unless we land a Grigorenko this year or get a better
I WOULD GROOM HIM FOR THE JOB , but clearly in time he has more to offer than pleks or the midget

our problem every year , we put the round hole in the square peg trying to make it work , and it never does with a fit

but for you fans talking about depth , wake up this center tandem we have is
s h i t and it shows by our record
DD is on pace for more or less 50 pts and is making less than a Mil this season and next, only a retarded GM wouldnt want this...


32 at the time of the pickup...

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Old
02-10-2012, 07:41 AM
  #32
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couris View Post
So you are comparing Malkin Crosby Staal to Eller DD and Plekachu.......................................... ..................

Plekanec is the only center of this team that is allergic to the center of the ice(forget gomes)....and also manage to come second in every 1v1 battles at ES. Im not the first one to say he plays like a good little girl, he said it.

17 years and couting of mediocrity.
Are you going for some kind of record for amount of dumb comments in a single post?

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Old
02-10-2012, 07:57 AM
  #33
Ginu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Specifically talking about Plekanec here, but it applies to other scenarios as well. When people say "Oh Eller is developing well, Plekanec is now expendable" "Desharnais made more points, Plekanec can be moved" then we project these lines with Eller and DD in top 2 center positions.

EVEN if we assume Eller and DD become legit, consistent 2nd line centers, what's the obsession with riding ourselves of Plekanec or any other player in a similar circumstance?

This isn't Halak vs Price where only 1 will play 60 games. This is forwards, d-men...Where many can play.

Why do we want to tear down depth as soon as we get it? It's annoying as hell.

Granted, if we're talking about an upgrade and you gotta give to get, I understand, but a lot of times I read garbage about trading Plekanec for futures. Really? Why? I find it borderline moronic.

Again, it applies to many situations, but in this particular situation, a top two-way center is great. Why do we even discuss trading Plek for a non-upgrade just because Eller and DD may become good consistent players.

Pittsburg has Crosby Malkin and Staal. Why is it forbidden for us to have a decent 3 way combo?

Just a pet peeve I guess. Anyone else annoyed by this?
I'll tell you why I want to trade Plekanec:

1) We won't go far in the playoffs with Plekanec and Desharnais as our top two centers, and Desharnais has little trade value.
2) Gallagher is coming in a few years. There's no way we can have all 3 in the top 6. Way too small!
3) Other than Boston last year and maybe one more season, each team that has won the Stanley Cup in the last 10 years has a legitimate #1 center who can take over games and hit 80 points in the regular season. We don't have that.
4) We don't have the talent of the Bruins to surround our smaller centers with so we need a change at that position.
5) Plekanec is a 1B center and is great two-way but he's not a game-changer offensively. Eller has shown he can handle the defensive side of the game.
6) He's the only center we have that can bring a return and we won't get that center by trading anyone else.
7) If we can't land that #1 center, if we've acknowledged that we need to be better, we have to draft one. Trading him would ensure we fall in the standings and we'd likely be able to get another 1st for him. That's a quick re-tooling right there.

It's not because he sucks. It's because we need to be better and have to upgrade at his position. No other player will give us a return so he's the only option. And if we don't make a change at center, forget competing until we do.

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Old
02-10-2012, 08:10 AM
  #34
habs03
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I agree, what I hate the most is when people say we should get a Big centre and trade away Plek. I think if we somehow find another good centre, ex Carter, that would put Plek in a perfect position, in the number 2 hole. The problem with that is what do you do with Eller/DD, would one be traded, or do you switch Eller to LW, Eller might be better playing C, but I think he would be a better LW than DD would be.

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Old
02-10-2012, 08:12 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Actually, Eller and DD are locks for the top 3 center. Its Leblanc that will eventually take Plekanec's spot.

5M$ for a 3rd line center who disappears in important game. His defensive game is also overrated, look at his +/-!! And he plays like a girl... HE SAID ITTTT!!

He's definitely not a guy that you can win a Stanley cup with.



Edit: Ok ok, sorry guys. I forgot this

It was just a compilation of the stupid stuffs I saw on this board... and on l'antichambre (bergy).
Sarcasm detector is turned off, lol
you posted this at midnight after a habs win.

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Old
02-10-2012, 08:13 AM
  #36
Ginu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I agree, what I hate the most is when people say we should get a Big centre and trade away Plek. I think if we somehow find another good centre, ex Carter, that would put Plek in a perfect position, in the number 2 hole. The problem with that is what do you do with Eller/DD, would one be traded, or do you switch Eller to LW, Eller might be better playing C, but I think he would be a better LW than DD would be.
You won't get Carter without Plekanec. That's the prob.

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Old
02-10-2012, 08:24 AM
  #37
habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
You won't get Carter without Plekanec. That's the prob.
I dunno the way they have rumours of trading away Nash/Carter, I think they might look to shed some salary, so I think it actually might take Eller++ or DD++ to get them.

But like I was saying ideal, it would it would be 1C-Plek-DD/Eller, it would be a lot stronger than 1C-DD-Eller

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02-10-2012, 08:34 AM
  #38
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Plek could get traded because he's a wanted player. But the Habs would have to be blown away with the players coming back. What if the Blues offer Chris Stewart and a 1st? The Habs would seriously think about it.

But the only ones who are questioning Plek's value are some media idiots like Francois Gagnon and Tony Marinaro who know little about hockey and bigots who are critical of all Euros. You never hear any coach or teammate question Plek's worth to the team.

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Old
02-10-2012, 08:39 AM
  #39
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It doesn't really annoy me. I'm just automatically dismissive of any expression of "trade Plekanec" sentiment. So it doesn't really get to the point of annoying me. I would have stopped being a Habs fan decades ago if stuff like that truly annoyed me. Habs fans will be Habs fans.

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02-10-2012, 08:41 AM
  #40
Ginu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I dunno the way they have rumours of trading away Nash/Carter, I think they might look to shed some salary, so I think it actually might take Eller++ or DD++ to get them.

But like I was saying ideal, it would it would be 1C-Plek-DD/Eller, it would be a lot stronger than 1C-DD-Eller
DD has little value on the market. He's much more valuable to us. Eller has potential but doesn't have as much value as Plekanec. I'd rather have a 1C - Eller - Gaustad down the middle. I'd shift DD to the wing.

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Old
02-10-2012, 08:50 AM
  #41
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Well it all depends of the makeup of the team. Do you really want a guy you're paying 5 M$ to center your 3rd line? If your idea of a team is 2 offensive line, 1 defensive one and 1 gritty one, well I wouldn't have a 5 M$ guy centering the defensive one.

Now, reality check. Eller is NOT ready to center an offensive line and chances are HE'S the one who might center that defensive line for years to come. He might never explode to be that great offensive player. So Plekanec is STILL a top 6 player. Now, that's why the makeup of this team needs to be somewhat redone. Putting Moen and Darche on his wings is trying to say that if Plekanec would have 2 big wingers like DD is having, he'd be as succesful offensively. Problem is that it's Moen and Darche who is beside him. So Pleks needs to play with AKost and Bourque. Yet, we have no idea if AKost will stay. And I'm not convince Bourque is a 2nd line player. Not on a GREAT team. A 3rd line formed of Eller, Bourque and somebody else, I would have no problem with to go forward. But we need to be better on that 2nd line. Now, would Gionta fill that spot? Personnaly, I don't believe it's a good match with Pleks. Which for me come the conclusion that Gionta is more expendable than Pleks. Unless we suck it up and form a 3rd line of Eller-Bourque-Gionta. I still believe we are 2 really good wingers on the 2nd line to become a top tier team. And people say Leblanc shouldn't be on the 4th...well yes he should 'cause he is still young. And if you have a Leblanc-White-and a gritty vet player on your 4th, you know that you have a great team.

So yes, at some point, you do need to make a choice. Whethe it's for cap reasons. Whether it's for identity reasons. And I hope we make those decisions.

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Old
02-10-2012, 08:55 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
DD has little value on the market. He's much more valuable to us. Eller has potential but doesn't have as much value as Plekanec. I'd rather have a 1C - Eller - Gaustad down the middle. I'd shift DD to the wing.
I disagree, I just don't see how Eller is ready for top 6 minutes yet. and while I love Gaustad, he is a better 4th suited for a 4th line, maybe a 3rd liner if a team has two really good 1-2 centre, example the Pens.

I actually won't be opposed to having Plek-DD-Eller down the middle, if we got some really good wings on all 3 lines to spead the offence around.

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02-10-2012, 08:56 AM
  #43
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Plekanec is not expendable. He is valuable.

The only way he gets moved is IF

1-MTL decides to go FULL REBUILD (doubt it)
2-at the end of next season Eller has blossomed into a 60 pt 2-way defender capable of playing like Plekanec AND we drafted a big centre (Grigorenko/Galchenyuk) that is ready to be an NHLer.

Even then, I have a hard time seeing him moved.

Imagine
Grigorenko/Galchenyuk
Eller
Plekanec

as a top 3 in any order.

DD can be moved to the wing.

So why move him unless you get a crazy good offer?

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Old
02-10-2012, 09:00 AM
  #44
gillyguzzler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
DD has little value on the market. He's much more valuable to us. Eller has potential but doesn't have as much value as Plekanec. I'd rather have a 1C - Eller - Gaustad down the middle. I'd shift DD to the wing.
You undervalue DD way too much. I admit that I too thought DD might be better suited for the wing when the season started but that line is GOLD and DD is a big part of it. Who would have thought that he might get 60 points this year? He's cheap and everyone wants to play with him. He's earned his spot between Cole and MaxPac and this line will only get better.

I like Eller too but, because he's not a very good passer (shoot first type of C), he would probably be more effective on the wing than DD. I don't want Eller to be centering the 4th line next year if they do get another centerman.

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02-10-2012, 09:01 AM
  #45
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IF we trade a center it must be Plekanec

Eller is a young player who can become one of our 2 top center or a solid 3rd. Everybody want to keep him.
Desharnais is a great passer, 3rd in points with the team, make his linemates better, and he cost less than 1M this year and next year. Exactly the type of player you need to keep.

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Old
02-10-2012, 09:01 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Specifically talking about Plekanec here, but it applies to other scenarios as well. When people say "Oh Eller is developing well, Plekanec is now expendable" "Desharnais made more points, Plekanec can be moved" then we project these lines with Eller and DD in top 2 center positions.

EVEN if we assume Eller and DD become legit, consistent 2nd line centers, what's the obsession with riding ourselves of Plekanec or any other player in a similar circumstance?

This isn't Halak vs Price where only 1 will play 60 games. This is forwards, d-men...Where many can play.

Why do we want to tear down depth as soon as we get it? It's annoying as hell.

Granted, if we're talking about an upgrade and you gotta give to get, I understand, but a lot of times I read garbage about trading Plekanec for futures. Really? Why? I find it borderline moronic.

Again, it applies to many situations, but in this particular situation, a top two-way center is great. Why do we even discuss trading Plek for a non-upgrade just because Eller and DD may become good consistent players.

Pittsburg has Crosby Malkin and Staal. Why is it forbidden for us to have a decent 3 way combo?

Just a pet peeve I guess. Anyone else annoyed by this?
Well, the thing you have to understand regarding that mentality with pleks, is that he can actually get us some sort of a decent return, guaranteed, because teams LOVE players like plekanecs

Im not saying ship him for sure, but he can definately help bring in someone potentially better with the right package

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Old
02-10-2012, 09:06 AM
  #47
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No one is saying Pleks is expendable. The argument is that he can be upgraded for a bigger more physical centre.

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02-10-2012, 09:09 AM
  #48
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If you can get a package similar to what the Flyers got for Carter and Richards, why not consider it?

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Old
02-10-2012, 09:10 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Notice how DD doesn't get defensive matchups against the Malkins and Getzlafs of the league? Notice how Eller can't produce when matched up against the Datsyuks and Backstroms of the league?

They're not number 1 centres. Pleks can at the very least hold his own as a number one.

The problem is that Pleks really does disappear offensively when we've needed him the most. He's done it almost every year and it's disappointing for an otherwise great player to choke it up and get tunnel-vision when he's counted on. That's why people keep suggesting to trade him for a legit number 1, not because he's expendable.
This. Players can't only be "ranked"(as in 1rst line,2nd,3rd) by how much they produce, too much variable there. Pretty good chance that a 55 pts guy who does it against 1rst line is going to bring more to team overall than a 65pts guy who does it against 3rd lines.

Also something that people don't take into account is that having Eller DD as a 1-2 punch next year (forget about those good players+expandable parts for a superstar deal, they never actually work in real life so we ain't getting Getzlaf for Plek unless we add something so big it could end up looking stupid in 2-3 years) doesn't only ensure that we'll probably be more legitematly terrible then hilariously unlucky next year (as in a -30 by this point instead of the -5 we are now) it also becomes very risky to Eller and DD's devellopment. Throwing players who aren't ready for 1rst line opp. against 1rst line opp. seems like a textbook way to make a guy bust.

As an example, people are all in love with RNH on the Oilers but the guy faces really really soft opposition (like easiest among F with at least 40 games played) and gets 65% O zone starts. That doesn't mean RNH is bad, that doesn't mean he'll never be able to handle higher opposition, it just means he's not ready for it now and no one would be mentionning him as a possible top 20 center in the league if he had to play unsheltered minutes. To illustrate this, when we played the Oilers this year, their whole kid line was really hot and they got killed in possession by ... Plekanec.

And I think Plek's "girly play" in the playoffs is really exagerrated. He's been really good the last 2 playoffs. You could say he dissapeared in the CF against the Flyers but so did the rest of the team, including plaoff heroes Cammy and Halak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
I'll tell you why I want to trade Plekanec:

1) We won't go far in the playoffs with Plekanec and Desharnais as our top two centers, and Desharnais has little trade value.
2) Gallagher is coming in a few years. There's no way we can have all 3 in the top 6. Way too small!
3) Other than Boston last year and maybe one more season, each team that has won the Stanley Cup in the last 10 years has a legitimate #1 center who can take over games and hit 80 points in the regular season. We don't have that.
4) We don't have the talent of the Bruins to surround our smaller centers with so we need a change at that position.
5) Plekanec is a 1B center and is great two-way but he's not a game-changer offensively. Eller has shown he can handle the defensive side of the game.
6) He's the only center we have that can bring a return and we won't get that center by trading anyone else.
7) If we can't land that #1 center, if we've acknowledged that we need to be better, we have to draft one. Trading him would ensure we fall in the standings and we'd likely be able to get another 1st for him. That's a quick re-tooling right there.

It's not because he sucks. It's because we need to be better and have to upgrade at his position. No other player will give us a return so he's the only option. And if we don't make a change at center, forget competing until we do.
1- Possible but I find Plekanec to actually be a huge asset in the playoffs.
2-Forget about a top 6, it's about a top 9 now. Gallagher ain't top 6 or bust, he could be aweome in a soft minutes offensive third line role.
3-Trading Plek doesn't give us that and those guys aren't exactly common. And I think we are seeing a change in the league where a 3 "second lines" model might work better than a 1-2-3 lines one. I think having as a goal to have all top 9 players hitting 30 ES pts is a more realistic one than scrambling for a superstar.
4-Not that long ago, neither did the Bruins. I think we're looking pretty good on the wings, the defense could be upgraded.
5-Like I said, Plek won't bring back a game changer anyway and what Eller has shown is that he could devellop into a... Plekanec. They're both good defensively, but not against the same opposition. Giving Eller Plekanec kind of minutes won't do any good to him at this point (we've actually seen it like last month).
6-He ain't bringing back a 80+ pts guy and prospects and picks won't help sheltering Eller and DD next year.
7-Like I said previously, highly dangerous for our young guys. If we get a high pick this year, take it and run but we ain't as bad as our record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I agree, what I hate the most is when people say we should get a Big centre and trade away Plek. I think if we somehow find another good centre, ex Carter, that would put Plek in a perfect position, in the number 2 hole. The problem with that is what do you do with Eller/DD, would one be traded, or do you switch Eller to LW, Eller might be better playing C, but I think he would be a better LW than DD would be.
The only time Eller has looked good there was with Plek but I think DD is a better fit on the wing. Less defensive responsabilities and being on the wing doesn't stop him from making plays at all. It's not like he makes all of his plays from the same spot and he wouldn't be allowed to go there as a winger. But I tend to prefer having two-way guys as C.

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02-10-2012, 09:16 AM
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habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
Plekanec is not expendable. He is valuable.

The only way he gets moved is IF

1-MTL decides to go FULL REBUILD (doubt it)
2-at the end of next season Eller has blossomed into a 60 pt 2-way defender capable of playing like Plekanec AND we drafted a big centre (Grigorenko/Galchenyuk) that is ready to be an NHLer.

Even then, I have a hard time seeing him moved.

Imagine
Grigorenko/Galchenyuk
Eller
Plekanec

as a top 3 in any order.

DD can be moved to the wing.

So why move him unless you get a crazy good offer?
This for me

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