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NCAA sanctions North Dakota for use of "Fighting Sioux" nickname/logo

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03-01-2012, 12:36 AM
  #1
LadyStanley
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NCAA sanctions North Dakota for use of "Fighting Sioux" nickname/logo

http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/29/ncaa...nickname-logo/

Sanctions include:

  • Can't host any post season play (they'd be designated the "home" team, but play at other team's venue)
  • "student-athletes, band, cheerleading, dance and mascot uniforms and paraphernalia" can't have the prohibited name/logo (in any post season participation)
  • College may be liable for costs incurred by any forfeiture due to use logo/etc.

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03-01-2012, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
It is the spirit of the NCAA’s championship policy that the competing student-athletes (both North Dakota and its opponents) not be distracted or disrupted during the championship by debates about when and where your institution’s Native American imagery or nickname may be displayed or worn. Therefore, we ask that the university take measures to minimize or eliminate the presence of the imagery or nickname brought to an NCAA championship venue.

Read more: http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/29/ncaa...#ixzz1nrZqW7EG
The only reason there is distraction is because of the NCAA. Total morons.

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03-01-2012, 08:13 AM
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What am I missing here? Is there something wrong with the nickname or logo?

How is it any different than the Fighting Irish?

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03-01-2012, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
How is it any different than the Fighting Irish?
What, you mean there is such thing as discrimination against the Irish?


The NCAA is becoming such a disgrace that I don't even know what to say about them anymore.

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03-01-2012, 08:49 AM
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Hooray for political correctness!

No wait.... boo for political correctness.... hey, what's that the PC police are at the door? ok ok, ALL HAIL OUR POLITICAL CORRECTNESS OVERLORDS

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03-01-2012, 09:25 AM
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I guess they figure if the Sioux Tribe is OK with the use of the name, then they'll just be offended for them....

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03-01-2012, 09:48 AM
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I think there are definitely some racist team names/logos out there, i.e. "Redskins". What the **** is that?

I don't know about this Fighting Sioux thing, but I've always assumed cities/states/whatever got away with that kind of stuff because there weren't a lot of people of that background around to complain about it.

Wikipedia tells me North Dakota is only 5.4 per cent native. That's pretty low. The university's student body is also apparently 90% white, so there obviously aren't a lot of native people around to take offense, which, I think, is why a lot of people don't think it's a big deal.

Here in Manitoba, the native population was 13.6% way back in 2001, and it was described as the province's fastest-growing ethnic population then. So it's significantly bigger now. If someone proposed even a vaguely racist logo/team name here, it would absolutely be criticized, and rightly so.

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03-01-2012, 09:54 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
What, you mean there is such thing as discrimination against the Irish?


The NCAA is becoming such a disgrace that I don't even know what to say about them anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungman View Post
Hooray for political correctness!

No wait.... boo for political correctness.... hey, what's that the PC police are at the door? ok ok, ALL HAIL OUR POLITICAL CORRECTNESS OVERLORDS
These posts together.

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03-01-2012, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
I don't know about this Fighting Sioux thing, but I've always assumed cities/states/whatever got away with that kind of stuff because there weren't a lot of people of that background around to complain about it.
It doesn't take a bunch of people to complain though, just one or two. There's a big fight going on by me right now created by two people to make a high school change their name from Indians. The high school I went to uses the name Warhawks and used to have an Indian head (sort of like the Blackhawks logo) but they changed it to a bird before anybody complained about it.

I don't see anything wrong with the nickname but if it came down to it I'd just offer to drop the Fighting and just use North Dakota Sioux. Basically keeps the name intact and it shouldn't (emphasis on shouldn't) offend anyone.

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03-01-2012, 10:20 AM
  #10
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In case anyone wants a list...

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03-01-2012, 10:37 AM
  #11
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Good thing the Chicago BlackHawks aren't in the NCAA.

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03-01-2012, 10:46 AM
  #12
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Someone should write a snarky letter to the NCAA demanding that they pull their league office out of Indianapolis if they're really so offended by anything associated with Native American culture without their explicit permission.

But seriously, this is just the NCAA being offended for the sake of being offended, especially when every poll on the subject indicates that the vast majority of Native Americans either support, or don't care about, Native American-themed logos, nicknames, and mascots, even the most apparently racist of the teams, the Washington Redskins. Not to mention that it's an even bigger joke with UND, as one of the tribes that support the continued use of the Fighting Sioux requested to speak at the NCAA hearing about the issue to voice their support of the school continuing to use the logo and name, only to be flat out denied by the NCAA.

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03-01-2012, 10:49 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
I think there are definitely some racist team names/logos out there, i.e. "Redskins". What the **** is that?
A 2002 poll commissioned by Sports Illustrated found that 75% of those Native Americans surveyed had no objection to the Redskins name. As well, in 2004, a poll by the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania essentially confirmed the prior poll's findings, concluding that 91% of the American Indians surveyed in the 48 states on the mainland USA found the name acceptable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins

The P.C. people do what they do because they want to feel important for 15 minutes. The fact is the majority of people think of it as just a name and don't really care.

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03-01-2012, 10:52 AM
  #14
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Penn State gets nothing and Ohio State gets a slap on the wrist while this happens...

Utter joke.

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03-01-2012, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
What am I missing here? Is there something wrong with the nickname or logo?

How is it any different than the Fighting Irish?
As far as I know, there isn't a large group of Irish people who find the logo offensive.

Here's an earlier article. Apparently the Sioux themselves are split:

Quote:
The NCAA imbroglio dates to 2005, when the association told more than a dozen schools, including UND, that their team nicknames were "hostile and abusive" to American Indians and schools that insisted on keeping them would be sanctioned.

UND filed a lawsuit challenging how the association had reached its decision. In an October 2007 settlement, the university agreed to retire its nickname and logo if it could not get approval from North Dakota's two largest Sioux tribes, the Standing Rock Sioux and the Spirit Lake Sioux, for their continued use.

The Spirit Lake Sioux tribe endorsed the nickname in a subsequent referendum, but the Standing Rock Sioux tribal council declined to support it or call a reservation referendum on the question.
...
Some Spirit Lake tribal members have filed a lawsuit against the NCAA, alleging its efforts to prod UND into dropping the nickname violates their rights.

"It's about principle, now. It's about freedom of speech. It's about civil rights, religious freedoms and the First Amendment," said Frank Black Cloud, of Fort Totten, a Spirit Lake tribal member and nickname supporter.

Another Spirit Lake tribal member who opposes the nickname, Erich Longie, said foes won't give up.

"We know tribal councils come and go. We are going to stay and we are going to stay at it," Longie said. "We are going to get that name changed."
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1nsxbZGTI

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03-01-2012, 11:15 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/29/ncaa...nickname-logo/

Sanctions include:

  • Can't host any post season play (they'd be designated the "home" team, but play at other team's venue)
  • "student-athletes, band, cheerleading, dance and mascot uniforms and paraphernalia" can't have the prohibited name/logo (in any post season participation)
  • College may be liable for costs incurred by any forfeiture due to use logo/etc.

so UND gets slapped while Florida State skates by.....huh?!

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03-01-2012, 11:17 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
so UND gets slapped while Florida State skates by.....huh?!
"Fighting" Sioux vs. Seminoles? I don't know. Apparently in 2005, there was a list of 18 names the NCAA found offensive and UND is the only one that didn't change theirs

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03-01-2012, 11:29 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
so UND gets slapped while Florida State skates by.....huh?!
Quote:
The use of the Seminoles and Osceola name and imagery is officially sanctioned by the Seminole Tribe of Florida.
So there's that.

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03-01-2012, 11:31 AM
  #19
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It's almost tragic considering what the NCAA could be enforcing, but still...the university has the law on their side through a court order saying they can use the nickname up until a June state referendum on the name (There's even a lawsuit out there challenging the Constitutionality of the referendum!). I'd go all out and use the nickname, imagery, etc. wherever possible. Then, when the bill comes, I'd sue the pants off the NCAA for all expenses and legal fees saying since we are a state institution, we have to follow the directive of what the state says.

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03-01-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensguy11 View Post
It's almost tragic considering what the NCAA could be enforcing, but still...the university has the law on their side through a court order saying they can use the nickname up until a June state referendum on the name (There's even a lawsuit out there challenging the Constitutionality of the referendum!). I'd go all out and use the nickname, imagery, etc. wherever possible. Then, when the bill comes, I'd sue the pants off the NCAA for all expenses and legal fees saying since we are a state institution, we have to follow the directive of what the state says.
This actually seems like a pretty good approach for UND. If the NCAA realizes they're on the wrong side of the law, they'll back down pretty quickly.

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03-01-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
I think there are definitely some racist team names/logos out there, i.e. "Redskins". What the **** is that?

I don't know about this Fighting Sioux thing, but I've always assumed cities/states/whatever got away with that kind of stuff because there weren't a lot of people of that background around to complain about it.

Wikipedia tells me North Dakota is only 5.4 per cent native. That's pretty low. The university's student body is also apparently 90% white, so there obviously aren't a lot of native people around to take offense, which, I think, is why a lot of people don't think it's a big deal.

Here in Manitoba, the native population was 13.6% way back in 2001, and it was described as the province's fastest-growing ethnic population then. So it's significantly bigger now. If someone proposed even a vaguely racist logo/team name here, it would absolutely be criticized, and rightly so.
how is redskins racist? they named them that to imply that NA are badass. if i was a native, i would be proud to see names like redskins, fighting sioux, blackhawks, seminoles, etc.

and like someone else said, it's ok to have fighting irish, but people get upset over fighting sioux? that's a sick name, especially for a hockey team. if i were irish, i could give two ***** about notre dame's name. i would prolly even be proud, just like my irish friends are.

our countries are waaaaaay too politically correct. i think people get ******** over the "fighting" part of a team's name cause they have nothing better to do.

this same thing happened to the university of illinois. people got mad cause they were called the fighting illini. how badass is that name? and now they're just the illini and the mascot can't even do his wardance. notice how colleges also have fight songs? it isn't meant to be racist. that's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard.

i wish there was a team named the fighting english, but that would never fly in the usa.

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03-01-2012, 11:50 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
I guess they figure if the Sioux Tribe is OK with the use of the name, then they'll just be offended for them....
The school hasn't been able to get aproval from the tribal govenment that's the rub.

Anyone who wants to bemoan this being some political correctness issue should actually read up on the issue in regards to UND before they shoot their mouth off about it.

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03-01-2012, 11:53 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro View Post
The school hasn't been able to get aproval from the tribal govenment that's the rub.

Anyone who wants to bemoan this being some political correctness issue should actually read up on the issue in regards to UND before they shoot their mouth off about it.
don't be ignant. political correctness has a lot to do with this. i wonder why they havn't been able to get approval? oh yeah, political correctness

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03-01-2012, 11:56 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensguy11 View Post
It's almost tragic considering what the NCAA could be enforcing, but still...the university has the law on their side through a court order saying they can use the nickname up until a June state referendum on the name (There's even a lawsuit out there challenging the Constitutionality of the referendum!). I'd go all out and use the nickname, imagery, etc. wherever possible. Then, when the bill comes, I'd sue the pants off the NCAA for all expenses and legal fees saying since we are a state institution, we have to follow the directive of what the state says.
One could argue that the state is using the likeness of the Sioux Tribe without permission, essentially a form of theft.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that's why the NCAA has a problem with it.

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03-01-2012, 12:00 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
"Fighting" Sioux vs. Seminoles? I don't know. Apparently in 2005, there was a list of 18 names the NCAA found offensive and UND is the only one that didn't change theirs
The Fighting Illini nickname was deemed okay when the NCAA killed off Chief Illiniwek, though. The logic used was that the "Fighting Illini" was actually originally done in reference to the WWI Illinois soldiers that died, though.

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