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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part III (post #217 - arena announcement 2/16)

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02-11-2012, 06:47 PM
  #126
Nuclear SUV
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Originally Posted by superdeluxe View Post
There is light rail that goes from Seattle to Tacoma, but this usually runs mainly commute hours ie you would need to find another way back.
It's regular commuter rail on the BNSF freight lines. It would take some work to get it geared up for hockey at the Tacoma Dome. There is lightrail from downtown Tacoma to the Tacoma Dome, but it isn't that long of line.

I think the Tacoma Dome would work best for just a handful of games scattered throughout the season. They could sell a separate Tacoma ticket package for fans in the south end and have options in Seattle for full season tickets or to just the Seattle games. Portland area fans would be more likely to buy tickets there. Back in the early 90's before Key Arena, the Sonics would occasionally play the Trail Blazers in the Tacoma Dome or the Kingdome to boost attendance #s. Bulls games were also at the Kingdome. The Tacoma Dome also was the home of the Sonics for the '94-'95 season where they averaged 15,457 fans a game.

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Originally Posted by Northender View Post
I heard the guy who is interested in bringing the NBA back to Seattle was totally surprised when someone brought up the NHL to him. It wasn't even on his radar.
What's your source?

According to Seattle sources who have spoken with him, both NBA and NHL are being sought after.

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02-11-2012, 06:48 PM
  #127
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Who Chris Hansen? Not sure how that is because according to the mayor, he was told the the group would want both NHL and nba
Right. Hansen's play is entirely about the NBA.

http://www.federalwaymirror.com/sports/139060419.html

The NHL came to him, when they heard he was looking at building a new facility for an NBA team.

As I said, the NHL wasn't even on his radar. It might be now, but it wasn't at the beginning.

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02-11-2012, 07:14 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Northender View Post
Right. Hansen's play is entirely about the NBA.

http://www.federalwaymirror.com/sports/139060419.html

I read the article and didn't see what you did.

What I did read and hear last week was that Seattle officials, who have had recent conversations with him, mention that NHL was part of the deal.

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02-11-2012, 07:20 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Nuclear SUV View Post
I read the article and didn't see what you did.

What I did read and hear last week was that Seattle officials, who have had recent conversations with him, mention that NHL was part of the deal.
Sounds like a familiar plan, use the hockey team to help get an arena and then dump the hockey team.

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02-11-2012, 07:25 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Sounds like a familiar plan, use the hockey team to help get an arena and then dump the hockey team.
They need the NHL long term to make their investment back. The arena will be privately funded BTW. The plan is to use the NBA/NHL and leverage those properties into a regional sports network, which is where the big $ is.

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02-11-2012, 07:28 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Nuclear SUV View Post
I read the article and didn't see what you did.

What I did read and hear last week was that Seattle officials, who have had recent conversations with him, mention that NHL was part of the deal.
Here is another article. This was entirely an NBA play.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._arena05m.html

When the NHL heard there might be a new arena being built in Seattle, they suddenly started talking about the viability of Seattle.

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02-11-2012, 08:08 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Northender View Post
Here is another article. This was entirely an NBA play.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._arena05m.html
This article does not support your case either.


What's your agenda?

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02-11-2012, 08:17 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Nuclear SUV View Post
This article does not support your case either.


What's your agenda?
SUV,

I think he is saying that the first mention of NHL in both of these articles says that it was the league that contacted Hansen, not the other way around. In other words, chronology like this:

1)Hansen wants to bring NBA back to Seattle. Works on acquiring land, etc, starts plans for building. It's all privately financed, of course.

2)Word gets out that he is working on that, and reaches Bettman or Daly. They contact Hansen - not Hansen calls them.

3)Hansen considers NHL, too. However, if this scenario is correct, who knows how much commitment he has to NHL. He may be huge NBA, and not so huge NHL fan. It just isn't known.

Thus the conclusion that this originally a basketball ploy. See the above post where northender says "It may be now."

I would say that is one possible interpretation. However, I would also say that right now, hockey is certainly in the mix, although it is hard to say how much in the mix.

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02-11-2012, 08:22 PM
  #134
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I like the idea of using a regional home arena for the temporary times:
4 games at Safeco: vs Vancouver(2), Detroit, Boston (largest local draws)
6 games at Everett Comcast Arena +1 preseason game: Games vs each Canadian team (non-Vancouver): Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal, Winnipeg & Ottawa <help to draw people from Vancouver>
8 games at Tacoma Dome +1 preseason: mixture of games including big draws (SJ, LA, Pit, Chi,..) and minor draws (Anh,Nsh, Clb, NJ & FL)
23 games at Key Arena plus all playoff games & remaining preseason games.

You could sell the season ticket packages to all games, specific-arena only games or a mix.

Preseason games could also be played in Portland, Spokane, TriCities or Kent as well.

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02-11-2012, 08:23 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Nuclear SUV View Post
This article does not support your case either.


What's your agenda?
It completely does. The article says Chris Hansen and the the city of Seattle have been involved in 8 months of negotiations around an NBA team. In the 9th paragraph, it says "The NHL has expressed an interest in placing a team in Seattle" .

I have no agenda - I would personally love a team in Seattle. My only point, which was I said in my first post, was that it is entirely clear Hansen's original play was entirely focussed on the NBA and did not include the NHL. Maybe it does now that the NHL has expressed their interest, but it didn't until last week.

This will be my last post on the subject. I respect your right to your own opinion if you don't agree. Cheers.

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02-11-2012, 08:33 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Nuclear SUV View Post
Just under 15,000 for hockey with somewhere between 9,500-10,500 seats with no viewing obstructions and another 1,000 or so with minimal viewing obstructions.
I hear all sorts of numbers. Wikipedia has 2 numbers IN THE SAME ARTICLE namely 15,177 and 10,500. King5 has an article that quotes Don Levin as saying...
Quote:
“I think it could work. It could be a good temporary building,” says Don Levin, who has been mentioned as a potential Seattle NHL Owner. But he acknowledges the challenges, “There are only 9,000 non-obstructed seats. Everything else is obstructed view. I’m not sure you sell them for much.” Key Arena seats just over 11,000 for Hockey.
Another item that I don't see mentioned often is that the 6,000 seats that get removed for the hockey config ARE ALL LOWER-BOWL SEATS!!! This really hurts gate revenue. See the layout from Key Arena's website...



Possible correction:
Taking a second look at this, I'm not sure whether the 9,000 or 11,000 figure refers to the arena with the entire south side closed off as per the bottom photo in post 5 of this thread.


Last edited by knorthern knight: 02-12-2012 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Possible correction
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02-11-2012, 08:37 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
“There are only 9,000 non-obstructed seats. Everything else is obstructed view.
And we thought the Coyotes attendance was bad...

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02-11-2012, 10:04 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Nuclear SUV View Post
They need the NHL long term to make their investment back. The arena will be privately funded BTW. The plan is to use the NBA/NHL and leverage those properties into a regional sports network, which is where the big $ is.
Speaking of "big $" there is a significant incremental cost in going from an NBA-only to an NBA+NHL arena. So much so that Barclays Center unfortunately cut back to an NBA-specific configuration, just a little better than Key Arena, in order to save money when costs started rising.

Don Levin's idea is a joke. He wants Hansen/whomever to expend extra millions to build an NHL-compatable arena rather than NBA-specific, and the hockey team would need a cut of concessions and non-hockey revenues. And Levin doesn't have the ability to contribute to the arena construction. If I was Hansen, I'd tell him to go fly a kite.

It would be a different story if the NHL owner did a 50-50 joint venture with the NBA owner. The American Airlines Center, operated by Center Operating Company L.P. is an example of what is necessary. The potential owner would need to be a billionaire already, contributing a quarter billion to the arena construction, and then buying a NHL franchise (relocation or expansion). Maybe somebody like McCaw might fit the bill. The other option is to convince Hansen to buy an NHL franchise himself. That would be the least complex situation.

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02-12-2012, 02:03 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
SUV,

I think he is saying that the first mention of NHL in both of these articles says that it was the league that contacted Hansen, not the other way around. In other words, chronology like this:
For the record, the first "article" he posted just reported on other articles, such as the second article he linked.

Listen to the recent news and it is clear as day that the NHL is part of the picture.


Last edited by Nuclear SUV: 02-12-2012 at 02:09 PM.
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02-12-2012, 02:05 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
Another item that I don't see mentioned often is that the 6,000 seats that get removed for the hockey config ARE ALL LOWER-BOWL SEATS!!! This really hurts gate revenue.
Which is why many of us here are advocating playing games both at Key Arena and the Tacoma Dome. The Safeco Field idea is great too.

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02-12-2012, 02:09 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
Speaking of "big $" there is a significant incremental cost in going from an NBA-only to an NBA+NHL arena.
If an arena is going to be built with any public assistance whatsoever, it will have to be able to handle the NHL too. Seattle is still bitter about the Key Arena debacle and NOT making that mistake again.

Also, I think you are not looking at the correct potential owners. Think multiple multibillionaires.

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02-12-2012, 07:13 PM
  #142
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FYI, Brian Robinson of arena solutions is going to be q it up sports in Seattle area joe tv at 930 or 1030 kcpq 13

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02-12-2012, 07:28 PM
  #143
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FYI, Brian Robinson of arena solutions is going to be q it up sports in Seattle area joe tv at 930 or 1030 kcpq 13

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02-12-2012, 11:13 PM
  #144
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http://thehockeywriters.com/seattle-...hl-relocation/

Quote:
A powerful coalition of real estate and area civic leaders have thrown their collective efforts into plans for a multipurpose arena that could house both the NBA and NHL. The principals include San Francisco hedge fund manager and former Seattle resident Chris Hansen, former Sonics minority owner and real estate mogul Craig Kinzer, former Sonics General Manager Bob Whitsitt, and Bellevue real estate developer Kemper Freeman. To that end, the web site ArenaSolution.org has been created to assist in mobilization efforts. Although the primary focus is to facilitate the return of the NBA to Seattle, there is nearly universal support for building an arena that could house the NHL as well.

“We’re much further along than people realize,” said Kinzer. Various reports have hinted at behind-the-scenes maneuverings for nearly a year. Undeveloped land south of the city has already been purchased by Hansen, whose intent is to build an arena on the site. Seattle mayor Mike McGinn agreed, summarizing the efforts by stating: “I think we have to say that we are much closer than we were three months ago, six months ago or a year ago.” To that end, McGinn hired prominent sports facilities consultant Carl Hirsh for several months last year to assist the city in the effort.

Both the NHL and NBA are interested. About Seattle, NBA commissioner David Stern recently said “I think it’s a very prime city for an NBA franchise,” and various media outlets have reported NHL commissioner Gary Bettman as having expressed “strong interest” in an NHL franchise in Seattle. Neither league is expected to expand to make this happen, leading to rampant speculation that the league-owned Phoenix Coyotes could be sold to a Seattle-based ownership group. With respect to the NBA, both the Sacramento Kings and the New Orleans Hornets have been discussed as possible relocation targets.

Neither team is expected to go quietly. ...
...
It may still be a bit of a long shot at this point, although Seattle P.I. columnist Steve Kelly would disagree, saying “I would say right now, the Kings are 70-30 coming here,” with the Coyotes “probably 50-50.” Key Arena has already been blessed as a temporary home for the Sonics until the new building is completed. No official word has been given as to the acceptability of the facility to the NHL.

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02-13-2012, 12:06 AM
  #145
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My feeling is if they can get the new arena to hold at least 17,500 for Hockey unobstructed, that should do. Probably 18,500 for B-Ball I would imagine should fit the bill.

Key Arena's Hockey configuration is too small as a temporary site and we are not in the '90s where teams like the Sharks and Senators could use much smaller venues as 'interim facilities'. Even for B-Ball with renovations Key Arena was around 17000 which is still quite small in comparison to other NBA venues.

Proposing 2-3 sites to be used throughout the season also comes across as a logistical nightmare and STHs will probably not like the differing sites from one game to the next. Nor would the teams and their respective operations staff and front office.

To get the best consistent gate-driven revenue for both franchises (especially for the NHL which is heavily dependent on it) and to instill support in Seattle metro receiving two relocated franchises that both can begin with high attendance numbers from day one, it would be best to go with the Tacoma Dome. I doubt it would disenfranchise fans from Seattle especially considering they used the Tacoma Dome for close to 2yrs while renovating Key for the Sonics. Even though this may counter to my earlier mention of temporary interim facilities, the San Jose Sharks played in Daly City, CA for their first few years at the Cow Palace while building their long-term venue. It is almost 1.5x the distance we would be looking at with Seattle/Tacoma (assuming the SODO site is chosen) and it worked there. I believe I can safely assume Tacoma Dome would be ready to go come summer if an announcement were made before both NHL and NBA playoffs to start operating in October.

In closing, I strongly believe this does give Seattle Metro area the upper hand over Quebec City for an NHL franchise not to mention the massive corporate dollars within the region vs. QC which the NHLBOG cannot look away from. Nor can they ignore the possibility of a regional cable package which could contain upwards of 10 sports franchises (NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL, MLS, NCAAMFB, NCAAMBB) and some of that money will go back into the NHL franchise. As many have already posted, the NHLBOG would be in best interest to opt for another American city over Quebec as relocation candidates for Phoenix, especially one strategically positioned like Seattle.

Quebec City may get another shot soon as there are other franchises on the financial bubble which I will leave unnamed but I think Seattle wins out on this one by a country mile.

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02-13-2012, 12:32 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Bucky_Hoyt View Post
My feeling is if they can get the new arena to hold at least 17,500 for Hockey unobstructed, that should do. Probably 18,500 for B-Ball I would imagine should fit the bill.

Key Arena's Hockey configuration is too small as a temporary site and we are not in the '90s where teams like the Sharks and Senators could use much smaller venues as 'interim facilities'. Even for B-Ball with renovations Key Arena was around 17000 which is still quite small in comparison to other NBA venues.

Proposing 2-3 sites to be used throughout the season also comes across as a logistical nightmare and STHs will probably not like the differing sites from one game to the next. Nor would the teams and their respective operations staff and front office.

To get the best consistent gate-driven revenue for both franchises (especially for the NHL which is heavily dependent on it) and to instill support in Seattle metro receiving two relocated franchises that both can begin with high attendance numbers from day one, it would be best to go with the Tacoma Dome. I doubt it would disenfranchise fans from Seattle especially considering they used the Tacoma Dome for close to 2yrs while renovating Key for the Sonics. Even though this may counter to my earlier mention of temporary interim facilities, the San Jose Sharks played in Daly City, CA for their first few years at the Cow Palace while building their long-term venue. It is almost 1.5x the distance we would be looking at with Seattle/Tacoma (assuming the SODO site is chosen) and it worked there. I believe I can safely assume Tacoma Dome would be ready to go come summer if an announcement were made before both NHL and NBA playoffs to start operating in October.

In closing, I strongly believe this does give Seattle Metro area the upper hand over Quebec City for an NHL franchise not to mention the massive corporate dollars within the region vs. QC which the NHLBOG cannot look away from. Nor can they ignore the possibility of a regional cable package which could contain upwards of 10 sports franchises (NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL, MLS, NCAAMFB, NCAAMBB) and some of that money will go back into the NHL franchise. As many have already posted, the NHLBOG would be in best interest to opt for another American city over Quebec as relocation candidates for Phoenix, especially one strategically positioned like Seattle.

Quebec City may get another shot soon as there are other franchises on the financial bubble which I will leave unnamed but I think Seattle wins out on this one by a country mile.
If the NHL looks at the long term prospects and what would be best long term, they will work and go with Seattle before QC.
If the NHL just wants the quick money grab to get the Coyotes off their hands and recoop losses, without realizing the bruising that losing 2 major US markets will cause in the US, they will choose QC.

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02-13-2012, 03:04 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://thehockeywriters.com/seattle-...hl-relocation/
A powerful coalition of real estate and area civic leaders have thrown their collective efforts into plans for a multipurpose arena that could house both the NBA and NHL. The principals include San Francisco hedge fund manager and former Seattle resident Chris Hansen, former Sonics minority owner and real estate mogul Craig Kinzer, former Sonics General Manager Bob Whitsitt, and Bellevue real estate developer Kemper Freeman. To that end, the web site ArenaSolution.org has been created to assist in mobilization efforts. Although the primary focus is to facilitate the return of the NBA to Seattle, there is nearly universal support for building an arena that could house the NHL as well.

“We’re much further along than people realize,” said Kinzer. Various reports have hinted at behind-the-scenes maneuverings for nearly a year. Undeveloped land south of the city has already been purchased by Hansen, whose intent is to build an arena on the site. Seattle mayor Mike McGinn agreed, summarizing the efforts by stating: “I think we have to say that we are much closer than we were three months ago, six months ago or a year ago.” To that end, McGinn hired prominent sports facilities consultant Carl Hirsh for several months last year to assist the city in the effort.

Both the NHL and NBA are interested. About Seattle, NBA commissioner David Stern recently said “I think it’s a very prime city for an NBA franchise,” and various media outlets have reported NHL commissioner Gary Bettman as having expressed “strong interest” in an NHL franchise in Seattle. Neither league is expected to expand to make this happen, leading to rampant speculation that the league-owned Phoenix Coyotes could be sold to a Seattle-based ownership group. With respect to the NBA, both the Sacramento Kings and the New Orleans Hornets have been discussed as possible relocation targets.

Neither team is expected to go quietly. ...
...
It may still be a bit of a long shot at this point, although Seattle P.I. columnist Steve Kelly would disagree, saying “I would say right now, the Kings are 70-30 coming here,” with the Coyotes “probably 50-50.” Key Arena has already been blessed as a temporary home for the Sonics until the new building is completed. No official word has been given as to the acceptability of the facility to the NHL.
NHL EVP Bill Daly already considers the Key Arena a possible "temporary solution"...

LaPresse, January 29, 2012 (translated):
"Yes we can. Yes you can write that the Coyotes could move to Quebec City next year. But you must also add that other cities, as well as Quebec, could inherit the Coyotes...Seattle, like Quebec, [is a city where an] arena has yet to be built. Existing infrastructure - the Colosseum and the Key Arena, which served as home to the SuperSonics basketball club before being relocated to Oklahoma City - could serve as a temporary solution.

Our relationship with the people of Quebec are still very good and their application is not worse than it was. But I think the passion with which you follow the case and the interest for the return of the League in Quebec gave the impression that things were more advanced than they actually are."

To me, the most interesting part of the article you posted is the mention of Kemper Freeman's name as part of the investors group. Everything else seems to be a re-hash.

Freeman owns the Bellevue Square mall among other Seattle area properties. He is a real estate heavy hitter in the region. He his a big opponent of the proposed light rail system adding an eastside link to Bellevue, ironically.

I have my doubts that Freeman is THE mystery prospective NHL team owner.

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02-13-2012, 07:42 AM
  #148
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Yes Key Arena is not great for hockey but it can work.. With 9,000+ good seats without issue and then other obstructed seats that could be available for a cheaper rate for the casual fans or families. Hell even if you sit at Rogers Arena or Joe Louis Arena your seats on the glass are somewhat obstructed since you can't really see anything on the other end/around bench or box. The fact that it IS in Seattle proper and not in Tacoma actually IS a big deal to Seattlites. Tacoma can easily be >1hr commute on most weekdays from Seattle.

Also Tacoma Dome itselt would need a tremendous overhaul to work. i.e. It would need even the basics like an iceplant to make ice as I believe the city sold that part off when the WHL team left in the 90s.

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02-13-2012, 09:24 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
If the NHL looks at the long term prospects and what would be best long term, they will work and go with Seattle before QC.
If the NHL just wants the quick money grab to get the Coyotes off their hands and recoop losses, without realizing the bruising that losing 2 major US markets will cause in the US, they will choose QC.
QC works well long term too.

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02-13-2012, 10:12 AM
  #150
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Look forward to Hansen and mcginn finally revealing this arena plan so we can start getting actually concerns based on the actually proposal not based on ones own speculation regarding some issues.

Some people in other message boards are taking what the a few council members comments after they were briefed last week as skepticism. And making sound like its a bigger deal than it really is at the current moment. They are commenting with out seeing the proposal in full details. People need to keep that in mind. Concerns need to indeed taking serious when its brought up by a council member but bear in mind it could be a non-issue when the proposal finally comes out.


Last edited by gstommylee: 02-13-2012 at 10:19 AM.
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