It is plausible that many on your list have some exposure; however, I do not think it will affect any future funding of arenas in the future since we are dealing with very experienced investors. Some investments go bad and they know that. If they stopped investing in every type of investment that lost them money they would likely be left with all the money stuffed in their mattress (technically, even that would lose them money). Glendale is small potatoes to many of the investment world, always was, always will be. If the Yotes leave, stadiums will still be built and financed, hockey arenas will still be built and financed and life will go on.
Great point! This is small potatoes to these guys even though I think there is very little big money in the bonds, they are spread far and wide in Muni bond funds.
Show me the bondholder list for those bonds, it is NOT made up of the MIchael Dells of the world, believe me. BTW if the big money boys are so upset why is there big private money interested in building a new arena in Seattle?
Maybe not the best example. The Seattle group would be building an arena for the NBA first and foremost. The hockey team wouldn't be the primary tenant like the Coyotes are in Glendale.
So it won't be a dagger in the heart of future wealthy investors who want to privately finance arena construction? Only to future public subsidies? Which is more common these days?
Just a note on the AHL.... In order for Phoenix to play in the AHL they would have to have an AHL franchise and one is not avail. AHL President Dave Andrews has said that all 30 AHL teams will be in their current location next season. Affiliations... That's a different story. There will be plenty of affiliation shifts in the off-season.
All that said... Let's just hope this is a situation that isn't needed.
Well, that settles that then.
I really would not want to be in the position the CoG finds itself in today. The city's bond value has been depreciated by Moody's, they're losing tons of money with Jobing.com arena. Not many folks are interested in filling the arena for the Coyotes and they're about to cut and do more damage to the city's budget over this fiasco. No wonder they are trying everything to salvage the Coyotes.
Show me the bondholder list for those bonds, it is NOT made up of the MIchael Dells of the world, believe me. BTW if the big money boys are so upset why is there big private money interested in building a new arena in Seattle?
Completely different groups and circumstances mesa. The thing about Conspiracy Theories?... their almost always absent verifiable documented proof. Thats why there called "Conspiracies"... how'dya like me so far?.
No wonder they are trying everything to salvage the Coyotes.
It's their only hope.
At the same time its like getting back with an ex wife, it will never been the same, there will always be mistrust but when old, fat, and ugly you cant do any better. The fans have been turned off and anytime a new stadium is built your going to think the team is moving. They will sell tickets when the team is competitive but there cant be a rebuilding year because without hope, the fans wont show. Its just straight up a mess and some creative individual will have to come in and spice everything up.
Yeah, that's probably the crappiest part. Say Jamison buys the team and has a short term out clause. Everyone will suspect he's just buying time until Seattle gets their arena built for their basketball team and he can move our hockey team right in there. Or that he's waiting for Quebec to pile up huge amount of spending on a new arena, let them really, really, really feel the pressure and then sell us to them for a huge mark up. I'm not sure how feasible any of that is, but my point is any new local ownership will have an enormous, black shadow of doubt cast on them. Like we are just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Right on our necks.
Ya, that right there is a huge problem rt. The mistrust runs deep. Its going to take a very special breed of owner to win back the publics confidence and loyalties as so much damage has been done.
Yeah, that's probably the crappiest part. Say Jamison buys the team and has a short term out clause. Everyone will suspect he's just buying time until Seattle gets their arena built for their basketball team and he can move our hockey team right in there. Or that he's waiting for Quebec to pile up huge amount of spending on a new arena, let them really, really, really feel the pressure and then sell us to them for a huge mark up. I'm not sure how feasible any of that is, but my point is any new local ownership will have an enormous, black shadow of doubt cast on them. Like we are just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Right on our necks.
I doubt that very much considering most people in AZ don't follow the Coyotes well enough over the years to know what is going and there are plenty of people in this market who can and will be converted to hockey fans overtime. Also, even with all that has gone on and the state of the economy the ticket fanbase continues to grow since the after the end of the 1st season after the bankruptcy filing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion
Ya, that right there is a huge problem rt. The mistrust runs deep. Its going to take a very special breed of owner to win back the publics confidence and loyalties as so much damage has been done.
As I have said a number of times, anyone who says that having an owner with an exit clause won't here is choosing to ignore what is happening with the Nashville Preds now and the owner has an exit cluse that I have pointed out many many times. Usually infomation people don't want to hear just falls on deaf ears.
I find it so funny how there are people who believe the Coyotes relocating won't have any effect on any team in any sport getting any public financing of a new building in the future.
1. Public opinion in the United States has changed on such a topic to become more against and almost all of Canada still holds on to this idea that no public money should ever be used to cover any new buildings for a sports team even with the likelyhood the QC govenment will give public money for a new arena.
2. The voters shot down the new Islanders Arena and there is no question there were plently of votes who saw the Coyotes mess as a big example to vote no. If the Coyotes leave and Glendale gets ****ed, you can sure bet not only those who say no will not be change their minds ever but many who said yes before will say no in the future as a result.
3. Even with the purposed arena deal in Seattle most people in the state still don't want to see so much as one red cent of public money into the deal and prefer the owner of any of the teams going there to pay for it all.
No he believes that giving taxpayer money to wealthy team owners is a bad use of public funds. had the city pulled the plug two years ago and concentrated on attracting other venue opportunities they would be money ahead.
A person who believes it's a bad use of public funds is going to say "I don't want to support the team with more public funds" - they are not going to say "I want the team to go bye-bye."
His phrasing makes it sound as if he is personally against the team, and not interested in any sort of solution that would keep them here but be profitable for the COG.
As I have said a number of times, anyone who says that having an owner with an exit clause won't here is choosing to ignore what is happening with the Nashville Preds now and the owner has an exit cluse that I have pointed out many many times. Usually infomation people don't want to hear just falls on deaf ears.
That's not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Nashville went through a fraction of the adversity Phoenix has gone and continues to go through. Not saying an ownership with an out clause is a non-starter but I would think it needs to be at least a 7 years out with some sort of provision or metric to ensure the owner acts in good faith in their attempt to make the team work here.
Personally I'll take anything at this point but if in an owner comes in with the appearance of having one foot out the door, I don't think they'll be able to turn much around barring some lucky drafting of the next Ovechkin or something.
Personally I'll take anything at this point but if in an owner comes in with the appearance of having one foot out the door, I don't think they'll be able to turn much around barring some lucky drafting of the next Ovechkin or something.
I have been questioning that for 3 years... how does a new owner convince the fan base that they are in it for the long haul?
Other than you, the fan, having to trust the word of the new owner, the NHL could help the matter. If the NHL's word on that they are fully committed to the Phoenix market, is to be believed, then the NHL should not be selling the team to anyone that wants a 2-3 year out clause. IIRC the NHL constitution specifies a minimal of 7 years has to pass before an application to relocate can be made ( IE: this is exactly what ASG did with the Thrashers ). So only sell the team to someone that will commit to at least 7 years.
A person who believes it's a bad use of public funds is going to say "I don't want to support the team with more public funds" - they are not going to say "I want the team to go bye-bye."
His phrasing makes it sound as if he is personally against the team, and not interested in any sort of solution that would keep them here but be profitable for the COG.
Thats' "Cactus" Phil. He really should learn to think twice before speaking once sarcastically particularly in light of his actual voting record on the issues pertaining to the team & the league. He appears to be running for cover in running for re-election and straight into the arms of the Goldwater Institute & Tea Partiers. Why didnt he make a simple call to Global Spectrum, AEG or whomever months upon years ago to try and ascertain approximate arena management costs rather than objecting vociferously to everything proposed publicly and then voting to approve proposal A/B/C or D anyway?. I can tell you why but the days too early to be getting upset with yet another hypocritical politician... calling the $25M the NHL receives an "Arena Management Fee" itself is completely disingenuous, only done so to avoid Gift Clause concerns, the terms in the AMUL clearly stating what those funds were earmarked towards. Did he not read the document?. Does he just vote up or down whatever based on the prevailing populous winds?... ah, ya, Im guessin so.
I have been questioning that for 3 years... how does a new owner convince the fan base that they are in it for the long haul?
It's called marketing. You promote the hell out of the team as if they are the greatest attraction in the desert and will be a dynasty for decades to come. The public is not that hard to fool if you are good at PR.
At the same time its like getting back with an ex wife, it will never been the same, there will always be mistrust but when old, fat, and ugly you cant do any better. The fans have been turned off and anytime a new stadium is built your going to think the team is moving. They will sell tickets when the team is competitive but there cant be a rebuilding year because without hope, the fans wont show. Its just straight up a mess and some creative individual will have to come in and spice everything up.
That's the problem, I think most of the creativity went out the window with Hulsizer. Everything that probably could have been thought up, was. Especially with the high priced NHL lawyers that have been involved since the beginning. I just have a hard time seeing how there will be any profitability in Glendale. They have been losing money since forever.
The BOG would have every reason and right to want out, and the NHL as well. Rest assured though, that they won't leave without milking every possible penny they can this year with leaks, misinformation, disinformation on the Coyotes stability and situation. They do have remaining dates on the NHL reg.season calendar to fill and hopeful playoffs.
That's the problem, I think most of the creativity went out the window with Hulsizer. Everything that probably could have been thought up, was. Especially with the high priced NHL lawyers that have been involved since the beginning. I just have a hard time seeing how there will be any profitability in Glendale. They have been losing money since forever.
Nah, I meant creativity in promoting the team and marketing to businesses. Zero time is focused on the team by local media, either because they dont carry the games or they claim ratings are not high enough (is it because of the networks the games are on or are they on those networks because no one is watching; interesting go around).
No way should a real team ever do this but the kind of creativity I can think of is what the Rattlers did a few years ago. If they didnt make the playoffs, all season tickets were refunded....At that time arena football was a dying league (much like the NHL in the U.S.) so it got locals talking about the promotion....Coyotes could have a bring a friend day for free or give discounts if you get friends to buy tickets...corny but other teams around here have done it.
Nah, I meant creativity in promoting the team and marketing to businesses. Zero time is focused on the team by local media, either because they dont carry the games or they claim ratings are not high enough (is it because of the networks the games are on or are they on those networks because no one is watching; interesting go around).
No way should a real team ever do this but the kind of creativity I can think of is what the Rattlers did a few years ago. If they didnt make the playoffs, all season tickets were refunded....At that time arena football was a dying league (much like the NHL in the U.S.) so it got locals talking about the promotion....Coyotes could have a bring a friend day for free or give discounts if you get friends to buy tickets...corny but other teams around here have done it.
I just don't see what else they can do. Any type of creative give aways, freebies, or anything of the sort is a potential monetarily loss to the NHL. Considering they are already losing tons, I don't see how they aren't just thinking of making money right now.
Perhaps if they were thinking long term, they may have envisioned trying to brand the population with their product, and I'm sure they have already tried in a number of ways. Unfortunately I think they are thinking short-term, very short-term.
As for the TV question, I, as a TV executive in charge of programming, will look and see what type of ratings and interest there is in this Coyotes product. I will also take a long hard look at how much revenue it can bring me through the advertising slots I have open to selling.
Oops, I see no ratings, so in turn, I also don't see any revenue through ratings.
I pass, next product please. There just isn't enough interest.
So no interest from TV, no interest from local media, no interest in the Phoenix Coyotes. No interest from the general population.
A lot of posters are either in denial of that or flat out ignorant of the situation at hand. I don't really blame them. It's a tough thing to swallow if you've been a longtime fan. People will do an insane amount of mental gymnastics to avoid coming to terms with what is happening. Do we honestly want this team to limp along without strong ownership?
At the same time its like getting back with an ex wife, it will never been the same, there will always be mistrust but when old, fat, and ugly you cant do any better. The fans have been turned off and anytime a new stadium is built your going to think the team is moving. They will sell tickets when the team is competitive but there cant be a rebuilding year because without hope, the fans wont show. Its just straight up a mess and some creative individual will have to come in and spice everything up.
dumb question but this is the only thread that I've seen you post on. Are you even a fan of the team and/or players? or even the draft itself? I'm just curious.
I really hope Phoenix doesn't meet the same fate my old team did(Atlanta) and end up in some Canadian city. You have a team in playoff contention so why the low attendance numbers?
dumb question but this is the only thread that I've seen you post on. Are you even a fan of the team and/or players? or even the draft itself? I'm just curious.
He once said he was a fan of the wild but has never posted in their section so smells like a duck....walks like a duck....
