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Draft 05, Weighted lottery ?!

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10-25-2004, 09:26 AM
  #1
CRAZY_FAN
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Draft 05, Weighted lottery ?!

Sorry if this has already been posted...

The NHL has a contingency draft plan in case the season is lost. It isn't set yet, but the basics are in place. The draft is scheduled for June, but there won't be a draft until there is a new collective bargaining agreement, NHL executive vice president Bill Daly says. After a deal is in place, the league is expected to determine the draft order with a weighted lottery involving all 30 teams--last season's worst teams would have a greater chance of picking first. Having a contingency plan does not mean the league is planning to kill the season. It's just an appropriate precaution. . . .

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10-25-2004, 09:43 AM
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Drake1588
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This is the link to that article, I believe.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slu...=tsn&type=lgns

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10-25-2004, 09:48 AM
  #3
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There's obviously no truth to this. See, her name is Yorio. What the hell? That's a little too close to comfort.

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10-25-2004, 11:25 AM
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"The draft is scheduled for June, but there won't be a draft until there is a new collective bargaining agreement, NHL executive vice president Bill Daly says. After a deal is in place, the league is expected to determine the draft order with a weighted lottery involving all 30 teams--last season's worst teams would have a greater chance of picking first. Having a contingency plan does not mean the league is planning to kill the season. It's just an appropriate precaution. . . ."

This illiogical which leads me to believe it is horse manure. The draft rules are part of the CBA and get negotiated with the NHLPA. Thus if a new CBA is negotiated the rules of the draft will be part of those negotiations. Therefore. how the heck would Daly know what will be negotiated in the CBA if they are not even talking with the NHLPA? Or is he assuming that the NHLPA will just cave in to this position as well?

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10-25-2004, 11:59 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAZY_FAN
Sorry if this has already been posted...

The NHL has a contingency draft plan in case the season is lost. It isn't set yet, but the basics are in place. The draft is scheduled for June, but there won't be a draft until there is a new collective bargaining agreement, NHL executive vice president Bill Daly says. After a deal is in place, the league is expected to determine the draft order with a weighted lottery involving all 30 teams--last season's worst teams would have a greater chance of picking first. Having a contingency plan does not mean the league is planning to kill the season. It's just an appropriate precaution. . . .
Sounds like this is just the ground work. I've talked with a lawyer for the NHL and they have to have a draft. It opens up a lot of legal ramifications if not. Which the NHL wants to avoid. There's only one way for no draft and everybody knows which way that is. However, how they do the draft nobody knows for sure yet.

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10-25-2004, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickabrat
This illiogical which leads me to believe it is horse manure. The draft rules are part of the CBA and get negotiated with the NHLPA. Thus if a new CBA is negotiated the rules of the draft will be part of those negotiations. Therefore. how the heck would Daly know what will be negotiated in the CBA if they are not even talking with the NHLPA? Or is he assuming that the NHLPA will just cave in to this position as well?
the simple explanation is that bettman has no intention of negotiating ANYTHING related to the cba with the nhlpa. his plan all along has been to cancel the season and go to an impasse, then he is banking that the court will rule in his favor at which time he can put in any rule he wants and use replacement players...

really the nhl shouldn't be talking about a contingency plan but rather 'this is a potential idea that we'll discuss with the nhlpa later' but they don't plan on having the nhlpa as a factor when it comes time...

just more proof that the league isn't negotiating in good faith and why it will absolutely blow my mind if any competent judge rules in favor of the league when they go to impasse.

and on top of that, the scenario assumes that the cba would be in places before june. but if there is no urgency to talk now and save the season, what makes anyone think that they would start talking after the season is cancelled to save the draft? really if the season is cancelled you could bet $$ that we'll be sitting here in september waiting for a deal to save the 05-06 season. so really the only way i could see having a draft in june if the season is lost would be if the league gets a labor impasse...which in turn means a player strike and no real hockey for atleast 2 seasons. so lets hope and pray that we never find out what they would do if the whole season is lost because it will be a very bad thing no matter how the draft works out

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10-25-2004, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
Sounds like this is just the ground work. I've talked with a lawyer for the NHL and they have to have a draft. It opens up a lot of legal ramifications if not. Which the NHL wants to avoid. There's only one way for no draft and everybody knows which way that is. However, how they do the draft nobody knows for sure yet.
the rules of the draft are written under the cba and therefore if there is no cba there can't be a draft, there is absolutely no way around it.

there would be major legal issues if they tried to cancel the draft and simply say that those 290 players don't get drafted or those players become free agents, but what legal ramifications would come from holding the draft in september instead of june?

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10-25-2004, 01:58 PM
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also just to note, last week the rangers held a q&a forum with fans where renney, maloney, jd & sam rosen answered questions about the organization. when asked what would happen to the draft if the season is lost, maloney said that he thinks the draft would be canceled and there would be a superdraft in 2006...

he wasn't giving a definite answer as if it was a given, but i'd think that for him to say that then he must know that it is atleast being considered...and odds are an assistant gm is more 'in the know' then yorio

take it for whatever you want though cause i have no way of telling who is right

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10-25-2004, 02:15 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
the rules of the draft are written under the cba and therefore if there is no cba there can't be a draft, there is absolutely no way around it.

there would be major legal issues if they tried to cancel the draft and simply say that those 290 players don't get drafted or those players become free agents, but what legal ramifications would come from holding the draft in september instead of june?

if theres no CBA though, then there are no rules for a draft, so what would stop the NHL from implementing its own rules and holding the draft?

Would the NHLPA have a legal position to block the draft simply based on a lack of a CBA?

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10-25-2004, 02:36 PM
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my thought has always been, why cant they hold a draft, just no teams can contact players to sign them till the cba is in place. i dont think the players have a problem with the way the draft is done, every league pretty much does it the same. so the only problem would be what kind of contracts could draftees get. so you could just wait on that

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10-25-2004, 03:25 PM
  #11
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I can't see them giving the top teams a chance at #1,even if it is a small chance.

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10-25-2004, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDriesen
my thought has always been, why cant they hold a draft, just no teams can contact players to sign them till the cba is in place. i dont think the players have a problem with the way the draft is done, every league pretty much does it the same. so the only problem would be what kind of contracts could draftees get. so you could just wait on that

I would guess the structure of the contracts would have to be worked out by the new CBA. If there is no CBA, hence impasse, couldn't the NHL just put whatever rules they want here? I would think they could just impose a rookie cap and be done with it.

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10-25-2004, 03:35 PM
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I'm personally happy this is what the NHL is thinking about because this is the step I would take.

Crosby could very well be the face of the game and there is no better time for a talent like him to come along really.

I hope the Sharks win the lottery obviosly but it would be cool to see a big franchise who is in a rut like Chicago land this guy.


I sure hope the Caps don't get him....they're already spoiled with Ovechkin.

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10-25-2004, 04:34 PM
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Draft is fine the way it is. It's how it is for every other sport. The worst teams get the best young players so they can rebuild and compete in the future.

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10-25-2004, 04:47 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pei fan
I can't see them giving the top teams a chance at #1,even if it is a small chance.

Pheonix picked #5 last year, and then went on a UFA binge in the summer, improving their team a lot.

I dont think its fair that since they improved their team, that they should still pick high. If they would have played this year, i know that they wouldn't have picked 5th.

Also, Washington getting Ovechkin and Crosby just because they didn't have a chance to show that the team is improved.

Whatever way they structure the draft, i'm sure 1/2 the teams fans will feel they got screwed.

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10-25-2004, 05:22 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
Whatever way they structure the draft, i'm sure 1/2 the teams fans will feel they got screwed.
Or at least the fans of 1/2 of the teams :lol

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10-25-2004, 07:37 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAZY_FAN
Sorry if this has already been posted...

The NHL has a contingency draft plan in case the season is lost. It isn't set yet, but the basics are in place. The draft is scheduled for June, but there won't be a draft until there is a new collective bargaining agreement, NHL executive vice president Bill Daly says. After a deal is in place, the league is expected to determine the draft order with a weighted lottery involving all 30 teams--last season's worst teams would have a greater chance of picking first. Having a contingency plan does not mean the league is planning to kill the season. It's just an appropriate precaution. . . .
Nothing like screwing the poor teams out of a chance to get better.

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10-25-2004, 07:51 PM
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What if the two sides come to an agreement on a temporary CBA, just to get the draft done? It only has to last two days, rather than ten years.

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10-25-2004, 07:57 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borro
Nothing like screwing the poor teams out of a chance to get better.
Which poor teams are we talking about exactly? The Nashville Predators that maybe had a blip in production and played well? Or do you mean the lowly New York Rangers or Washington Capitals that blew off bloated payrolls to tank it? What teams are we talking about here? Maybe you mean the Calgary Flames that were one win away from winning the Stanley Cup, and the 30th pick in the draft, but lost out to another team on financial thin ice in the Lightning.

Nobody knows from year to year which teams are going to finish bottom three and get a shot at the only 'sure fire' prospects available. Without a season, is it really fair to Nashville, Tampa Bay, Calgary, and Minnesota that LA, New York, Washington and Miami get a shot at top talent when they clearly have an opportunity to improve in the standings as well as the financial wherewithall to do so. Heck, if you look at recent history, there are a number of teams that did what Calgary did, and then missed the playoffs the following year. Do the names Carolina, Anaheim, or Florida mean anything to you?

I guess it begs the question; Which 'poor' team are you supporting?

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10-25-2004, 09:05 PM
  #20
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well i have brought this up numerous times already, and it bears bringing up once more

a weighted draft is the way to go, but certain "maximum movement" rules must be set in place.... its really simple actually.... you just go through the past 15 years of hockey (or some other number of years that all the teams can agree upon) and see what the average "movement" was in the standings from year to year

say that the last place team in the league never finished higher than 20th the next season....then in the weighted draft pittsburgh could pick no worst than 10th, because history shows that they could not have possible finished higher than this.... also say that history says that the worst the 1st overall team could place the next season was 10th.... then in the weighted draft the highest detroit could pick would be 20th... then pick randomly for each team within their possible pick range (ex. 1-10th for pittsburgh)

this is a very simple way to still give the weaker teams a better chance of drafting an impact player while allowing for "normal" movement in the standings

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10-26-2004, 08:39 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel13
What if the two sides come to an agreement on a temporary CBA, just to get the draft done? It only has to last two days, rather than ten years.
No way. The draft is a negotiated item. The NHLPA wants certain things and the owners want certain things. They can use the draft rules as a bargaining chip to give and take in other areas. for example: get a rookie salary cap and give earlier free agency, things like that. Also, a team would not want to draft players without knowing what it's going to cost them.

Overriding all this is that the draft is probably about the next to last thing on the prioritty list of things to get resolved. Why would they spend time and effort to get a draft negotiated when they could be spending it figuring out how to get players back to work?

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