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Rethinking the trade deadline

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Old
02-12-2012, 10:17 AM
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CREW99AW
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Rethinking the trade deadline

Several isles fans, responded to a recent Nabokov trade proposal from a Hawks fan.We argued that the winning culture Nabokov helped create ,was more important then adding another 3rd rounder.

From the article Lisa posted below ,it seems gms agree: there's little interest in getting picks unless they are 1st rounders.Gm's want nhl ready prospects.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...articlecontent

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02-12-2012, 10:47 AM
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Good read Crew...

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02-12-2012, 11:26 AM
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IslesFanatic
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Put me in the camp of keeping nabby if it means a 3rd round pick. Screw the picks. The important games these guys will be playing down the stretch will help them waaaaay before any 3rd rounder gets to the NHL, if he ever does. Enough with picks crap. IF it meant bringing back a legit youngster, then it would be a different story. And I dont mean a Ty Wishart.

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02-12-2012, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesFanatic View Post
Put me in the camp of keeping nabby if it means a 3rd round pick. Screw the picks. The important games these guys will be playing down the stretch will help them waaaaay before any 3rd rounder gets to the NHL, if he ever does. Enough with picks crap. IF it meant bringing back a legit youngster, then it would be a different story. And I dont mean a Ty Wishart.
I agree...


I dont think teams will even be willing to part with the type of prospect we are looking for anyway.....Nabby is younger than Roloson was at the time of his trade and is playing better and has a better pedigree, so I agree a Wishart type is out of the question...

I dont know if CHI would be willing to give up Olson, but thats what Snow would be looking for imo.....

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02-12-2012, 12:07 PM
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A Pointed Stick
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Originally Posted by IslesFanatic View Post
Put me in the camp of keeping nabby if it means a 3rd round pick. Screw the picks. The important games these guys will be playing down the stretch will help them waaaaay before any 3rd rounder gets to the NHL, if he ever does. Enough with picks crap. IF it meant bringing back a legit youngster, then it would be a different story. And I dont mean a Ty Wishart.
I got the impression Snow made a gentleman's agreement with Nabokov that he'd move him to a contender at the deadline regardless of what the Isle's needs are at the time. Imagine if that's true and he still isn't moved? Keeping him at that point would be a disaster because he will mail it in like most players would. I think he is moving no matter what.

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02-12-2012, 12:15 PM
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I don't see Chicago giving up Olsen...

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02-12-2012, 12:25 PM
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OrangeZebra
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I would rather keep Nabby and finish 10th than trade him and finish 13th

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02-12-2012, 12:31 PM
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Isles Junkie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
I got the impression Snow made a gentleman's agreement with Nabokov that he'd move him to a contender at the deadline regardless of what the Isle's needs are at the time. Imagine if that's true and he still isn't moved? Keeping him at that point would be a disaster because he will mail it in like most players would. I think he is moving no matter what.
Regardless of the Isles needs? So you're saying that if the Isles were in a playoff hunt (which they sort of are) then Snow would trade Nabby anyway? I don't think so.

Even if he did promise him that, and he wasn't traded, why would Nabokov "mail it in?' He's a UFA, he's had a solid year, why ruin that with a poor final 2 months of the season & have teams/GMs thinking "can he last for a full year at his age"

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02-12-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by OrangeZebra View Post
I would rather keep Nabby and finish 10th than trade him and finish 13th
why? Both ways we miss the playoffs and if we finish 13th we get a better draft pick and whatever is returned for Nabokov.

I would love the Islanders to resign Nabby for next year but if they arent going to we might as well get as much as we can for him.

Remember Fedotenko, Satan, Park and a million other guys we didnt want to trade too cheap that just left for nothing. Imagine we got a 5th round pick for each of them, we could have picked someone worth while, we could have traded up in the draft.

Remember Matt Martin and Kevin Poulin were 5th round picks.

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02-12-2012, 01:06 PM
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OlTimeHockey
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Originally Posted by Aucoin3 View Post
why? Both ways we miss the playoffs and if we finish 13th we get a better draft pick and whatever is returned for Nabokov.

I would love the Islanders to resign Nabby for next year but if they arent going to we might as well get as much as we can for him.

Remember Fedotenko, Satan, Park and a million other guys we didnt want to trade too cheap that just left for nothing. Imagine we got a 5th round pick for each of them, we could have picked someone worth while, we could have traded up in the draft.

Remember Matt Martin and Kevin Poulin were 5th round picks.
Our developing core has two roads:

We trade Nabby, mail it in and the guys see the team yet again not giving its all for them like they do for the team every night. Plant seeds of despair - they bolt when they can many times. A cancer manifests.

We keep Nabby, finish 10-8 hopefully, come close and the team bonds. A winning environment fosters itself. Those guys come back to camp angry they didn't win enough (see: 1974-1979) and play harder.


I say keep him and sign him no matter what. Even if he bolts it shows the right things to our camp, and the guys are happy with the team, not angry, guaranteed.

I say do whatever it takes to land a defenseman before the deadline. We're making moves now that effect our current young guys years from now. We're trying to sell this franchise to them - AND UPCOMING UFA'S.

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02-12-2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Aucoin3 View Post
why? Both ways we miss the playoffs and if we finish 13th we get a better draft pick and whatever is returned for Nabokov.

I would love the Islanders to resign Nabby for next year but if they arent going to we might as well get as much as we can for him.

Remember Fedotenko, Satan, Park and a million other guys we didnt want to trade too cheap that just left for nothing. Imagine we got a 5th round pick for each of them, we could have picked someone worth while, we could have traded up in the draft.

Remember Matt Martin and Kevin Poulin were 5th round picks.
The little bit better that each of the young players will become by playing in a winning environment and in a playoff hunt is worth more to the future of this team than some random picks and moving up a couple of spots.

Tavares, Okposo, Bailey, Grabner, Hamonic, Nielsen, Martin, MacDonald....these players need to learn how to play winning hockey. They won't do that if we give up on every season by the deadline.

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02-12-2012, 01:14 PM
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Bunk Moreland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aucoin3 View Post
why? Both ways we miss the playoffs and if we finish 13th we get a better draft pick and whatever is returned for Nabokov.

I would love the Islanders to resign Nabby for next year but if they arent going to we might as well get as much as we can for him.

Remember Fedotenko, Satan, Park and a million other guys we didnt want to trade too cheap that just left for nothing. Imagine we got a 5th round pick for each of them, we could have picked someone worth while, we could have traded up in the draft.

Remember Matt Martin and Kevin Poulin were 5th round picks.
I totally disagree. I understand your point and if this were 3-4 years ago sure go ahead and trade Nabokov but, right now? No. I understand finishing say tenth place is garbage and still means no post season but it will mean this team was still in it. I'm sick and tired of this team not playing any meaningful games in the second half of the season. The rebuild is working (slowly) and it's about that time they watch it culminate. Trading Nabby is like taking a step forward and then taking a step back. This team is competing, they win today they are 6 points out of a playoff spot you really want to trade one of the main reasons they're on this streak for a third round pick? Another unproven shot in the dark prospect? I don't think so. I don't care if it's a low first round pick I'd still keep him at the deadline if they're 6 points out. Let the kids get experience playing for a reason down the stretch.. Sit back and play some hockey!

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02-12-2012, 01:17 PM
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CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
I got the impression Snow made a gentleman's agreement with Nabokov that he'd move him to a contender at the deadline regardless of what the Isle's needs are at the time. Imagine if that's true and he still isn't moved? Keeping him at that point would be a disaster because he will mail it in like most players would. I think he is moving no matter what.
I've wondered too if Snow didn't tell Nabokov to report and play for the isles ,while Snow looked for a trade partner during the season.

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02-12-2012, 01:29 PM
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19 in a row
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great thread... i saw that offer in the main boards and everyone not associated with the isles was saying 3rd rounder for nabby was fair... I was one of many that posted no interest in a 3rd does nothing for us... if we don't make the playoffs, rather finish this season off strong, go down fighting and try to build for next year... maybe even get lucky and re-sign him..

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02-12-2012, 04:07 PM
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A Pointed Stick
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Originally Posted by Isle Junkie View Post
Regardless of the Isles needs? So you're saying that if the Isles were in a playoff hunt (which they sort of are) then Snow would trade Nabby anyway? I don't think so.

Even if he did promise him that, and he wasn't traded, why would Nabokov "mail it in?' He's a UFA, he's had a solid year, why ruin that with a poor final 2 months of the season & have teams/GMs thinking "can he last for a full year at his age"
I heard that argument coming a mile away. Why would Lindros not report to the Nordiques? Why would Heatley bounce around between clubs demanding trades? Why would any player refuse to be our UFA despite enormous wads of cash thrown at them? Ever not do something everyone expects you to do, even if it meant going against cultural norms? Evgeni does have the ability to play or not play. He is not Garth's slave and it is his right to refuse to report. If he doesn't have much time left in his career and too much of the remainder is going to be eaten up playing for the Isles then why bother playing at all? I don't think he is coming back for the money, honestly. He has millions already. I think he is coming back for one last kick at the can. He's pretty old you know. This might be the last time he makes the reach.

It probably doesn't matter after this game though. I think they are done as far as the playoffs go.

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02-12-2012, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Our developing core has two roads:

We trade Nabby, mail it in and the guys see the team yet again not giving its all for them like they do for the team every night. Plant seeds of despair - they bolt when they can many times. A cancer manifests.

We keep Nabby, finish 10-8 hopefully, come close and the team bonds. A winning environment fosters itself. Those guys come back to camp angry they didn't win enough (see: 1974-1979) and play harder.


I say keep him and sign him no matter what. Even if he bolts it shows the right things to our camp, and the guys are happy with the team, not angry, guaranteed.

I say do whatever it takes to land a defenseman before the deadline. We're making moves now that effect our current young guys years from now. We're trying to sell this franchise to them - AND UPCOMING UFA'S.
If this were our first or second year of the rebuild I wouldnt necessarily agree with this line of thinking but its like our 5th year of our rebuild. We have a farm system thats very deep to the point we arent sure how much deeper it can actually get. We do need to start winning games and turning the corner so I will agree that a 3rd rounder isn't worth poop to us. Id rather get the extra 5-7 wins or whatever.

As for a defenseman...Yes...whatever it takes to land Ryan Suter within reason provided we can nail down a contract extension.

This is the most important off-season we have had in years. We have something like 12 or 14M (maybe someone can help me there) coming off our books and will need to spend something like that just to reach the salary floor next year. If you are tired of seeing Brian Rolston salary dumps acquired just to reach the cap floor you understand why trying to make the playoffs even as an 8 seed means so much. We have cap room galore, we need to be able to spend it on players who are willing to sign here not washed up players like Rolston or bottom feeder crud like Mark Eaton. If youre sick of not getting quality players then you have to do something differently. Forget about Zach Parise or Ryan Suter for a minute because those guys can pretty much pick their spot. But if your the next Mark Streit who is pretty much being run out of your city why would you even want to come to Long Island? There has to be a reason to make decent vets want to come here, let alone the premier guys like a Suter or Parise.

Everyone knows we have a young team with a lot of potential but no one is going to sign here until they see us change our philosophy and ways of doing business. If we can trade Nabby for Cory Schneider (for example) then that is different but for a 3rd round pick? Who cares? We have a million 3rd round picks on board already. Its times to start sprinkling in an established vet or two who is actually good. Enough with the permanent rebuild. It has to change and now is a good time.

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02-12-2012, 05:26 PM
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I wouldn't take a 3rd, but if someone dangles a late 1st, I'd probably pull the trigger and go with Montoya/Poulin the rest of the year.

No interest in selling low with Nabokov.

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02-12-2012, 08:28 PM
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If Nabby and Snow are serious about being here past this season, why not sign an extension? No one has heard any rumblings of one. The trade deadline is 15 days away.

Dumb the dead weight and let your prospects finish out the season.

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02-12-2012, 09:14 PM
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I'd trade Nabokov for a first round pick for sure and package him for a d-man

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02-12-2012, 09:51 PM
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I'd trade Nabokov for a first round pick for sure and package him for a d-man
Good to know. Too bad you're not the GM of any other NHL team.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:32 PM
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Being "in the playoff race" has been an illusion, if not a complete figment of one's imagination. Nabokov has played very well. So if there's a reason why we're not in 27th-30th right now, it's because of John Tavares and some pretty solid goaltending. With that said, if a team is, in fact, "in the thick of things" that team does not score 5 goals in four games. Yes, they "won" when they got shutout, but that type of thing does not happen in the playoffs, nor does a shootout.

As a whole, this team lacks character. They pulled a no-show against the Panthers, a team who they will need to track down if they want to make the playoffs. The players don't have passion, and John Tavares cannot play at the same level every single game. Franz Nielsen scoring when John Tavares is not is not really helpful.

Michael Grabner is a floater. Kyle Okposo is sloppy. Matt Moulson is completely dependent on John Tavares. Josh Bailey has been working hard, so I can give him an A for effort. Nino Niederreiter is out of his league.

So I ask this, if you're Evgeni Nabokov, and you see the play in front of you, is there any great reason to stick around? The players aren't playing like they want to make the playoffs. It seriously looked like a god damn rec league out there today, in particular. Michael Grabner is surely quite happy with his cash. Kyle Okposo was overblown two years ago and prior. The Islanders put all of this little tidbits about a player in print, the fans bite, the fans trick themselves into believing the written words, fall in unconditional love, and when the fans get tired of that player, there's a new player in line to take the former player's place.

Whether or not Evgeni Nabokov gets traded only matters to Evgeni Nabokov. He will not come back here, and whatever "asset" we would get in return will have his tires pumped and the fans will wait patiently again.

A statement that should be stricken from the notebook of Howie Rose and Peter Rutgaizer and Butch Goring, and whoever is "Tell us about (Player's name here). It's subliminal advertising. We have eyes and we can see what that player does. When people talk about Nino, for instance, the phrase is token, "He's only 19", "He shows flashes", "He's outgrown the WHL"... and so on. The fact is that as a player in the NHL, he's in WAY over his head.

At what point do you get tired of this? At what point do you get tired of waiting for the future? At what point do you stop saying, "We're just one more top 5 pick away?"

I've been following the draft with a fairly close eye since 1991. I retroactively looked at 1990 after I learned about the NHL draft the night of the draft in 1990. Then I heard about Eric Lindros, and if we weren't going to win, I'd want that next big fish. We didn't get that next big fish until 19 years later when selecting John Tavares, and here we are still waiting for something to happen.

Am I repetitive? Why? Because it's a BIG CIRCLE. We, my friends, are stuck in a loop, and we're never getting out of it. It's all smoke and mirrors followed by more empty promises.

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Old
02-12-2012, 11:45 PM
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redbull
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Am I repetitive? Why? Because it's a BIG CIRCLE. We, my friends, are stuck in a loop, and we're never getting out of it. It's all smoke and mirrors followed by more empty promises.
good rant...good post...bang.on.

the top five pick is 2-3 years away from contributing, from making the team better, at the earliest and IF they reach their max potential. That's not a rebuild plan anymore than hitting the casino is a financial strategy.

this team is a wang-fraud, nothing more. lowest possible payroll until an arena deal, at the earliest. if the team is good, it's IN SPITE of Wang's plan, or at most an accidental byproduct of spending as little as possible.

This team has potential in the assets they've accumulated, the core young players signed and playing, and those in the system who all project to be good players one day.

But that's not this year and probably not next year either.

The team's got no goalie for next year, yet (well, except DiPietro) and the good news is, once that player is signed, there's a lot of room to the cap floor. Maybe next off-season the Isles can acquire the FOUR players they need, they have the cap space that most GMs would kill for.

Until that happens, it'll be more of the same.

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