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Spain, best sporting nation?

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Old
02-14-2012, 07:57 PM
  #26
Shadowthrone
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
No one cares about it here because it's boring.
Not nearly as boring as Formula 1. And I'm from Europe

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02-15-2012, 07:31 AM
  #27
Panteras
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I think people should realize that yes, some countries are going to be better than others at certain sports specially if that sport happens to be popular in the region or what not...but with that said we should also realize that you simply can't put NASCAR and f1 in the same breath, or American football and soccer no matter which one we think is the actual better sport or more enjoyable..

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02-15-2012, 09:43 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Lacrosse is mostly played in US and Canada, handball all over the world. Do you realize what kind of handball were actually talking about here?
Actually, Lacrosse is played by almost all European and Asian countries as well as Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Argentina and Costa Rica.

Yes, I know what Handball is. It's a sport that has very little popularity outside of Europe. I'd definitely say it's more popular worldwide then Lacrosse is but not by a whole lot. It's actually kind of like Lacrosse but without sticks and a lot less physical.

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02-15-2012, 09:56 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
No one cares about it here because it's boring.
That's what everyone in North America says about Soccer.

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02-15-2012, 10:43 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by DaaaaB's View Post
Actually, Lacrosse is played by almost all European and Asian countries as well as Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Argentina and Costa Rica.

Yes, I know what Handball is. It's a sport that has very little popularity outside of Europe. I'd definitely say it's more popular worldwide then Lacrosse is but not by a whole lot. It's actually kind of like Lacrosse but without sticks and a lot less physical.
Not true. South America, Asia and North Africa have decent teams.

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02-15-2012, 11:45 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by DaaaaB's View Post
That's what everyone in North America says about Soccer.
Yet they still watch it (see soccer board for climbing ratings for EPL/UCL games and USA World Cup games).

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02-15-2012, 12:01 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Yet they still watch it (see soccer board for climbing ratings for EPL/UCL games and USA World Cup games).
And I'm sure those numbers still pale in comparison to Football, Baseball, Basketball and probably Hockey. Secondly, you ever heard of immigrants before. Take away all the immigrants that are watching it and it's rating would plummett.

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02-15-2012, 12:14 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DaaaaB's View Post
Actually, Lacrosse is played by almost all European and Asian countries as well as Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Argentina and Costa Rica.
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The last European Lacrosse Championships were held in Lahti, Finland in 2008, with 18 competing countries.
And not a blip was heard of it in Finnish sports media. Seriously, if it's not an Olympic sport, it's meaningless. Eurosport's been around for over 20 years and although it's been out of free cable for some years where I live, I can't remember a single time they had lacrosse on. Considering how starved they are for sporting events these days, that's telling.

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02-15-2012, 03:13 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
And not a blip was heard of it in Finnish sports media. Seriously, if it's not an Olympic sport, it's meaningless. Eurosport's been around for over 20 years and although it's been out of free cable for some years where I live, I can't remember a single time they had lacrosse on. Considering how starved they are for sporting events these days, that's telling.
Handball, F1 and most Soccer get absolutely no coverage in the USA, a country with 60 times the population of Finland. For that reason, your sports are irrelevant.


Using your logic anyway.

I don't understand how you can arbitrarily discount some sports but then include others because they are popular in your part of the globe.

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02-15-2012, 03:52 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
And not a blip was heard of it in Finnish sports media. Seriously, if it's not an Olympic sport, it's meaningless. Eurosport's been around for over 20 years and although it's been out of free cable for some years where I live, I can't remember a single time they had lacrosse on. Considering how starved they are for sporting events these days, that's telling.
You're argument is completely irrational. See the post above mine for further explanation.

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02-15-2012, 10:20 PM
  #36
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In my opinion, as a rule of thumb, there should be a pretty much basic consensus as far as "internationally relevant" sports. In other words, sports that actually matter under certain criteria.

This criteria in my opinion are: A) actual competitiveness of the sport, (more than 1 geographical area of competitive nations/athlete) B) international popularity of the sport (actual following/practice in more than 1 geographic area)

The sports that fit this criteria in my opinion are as following:

TEAM SPORTS:

1-Soccer/other derivatives ie. indoor/beach
2-Basketball
3-Rugby
4-Cricket
5-Hockey/other derivatives ie. field/inline
6-Volleyball/other derivative =beach
7-Baseball

INDIVIDUAL SPORT/DISCIPLINE

1-Tennis
2-Boxing
3-MMA/ Other martial arts specifically Judo
4-F1/MotoGP
5-Cycling
6-Athletics

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Old
02-15-2012, 11:54 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Bocephus86 View Post
Handball, F1 and most Soccer get absolutely no coverage in the USA, a country with 60 times the population of Finland. For that reason, your sports are irrelevant.


Using your logic anyway.

I don't understand how you can arbitrarily discount some sports but then include others because they are popular in your part of the globe.

Blatant lie.

Root Sports shows UCL and replays some EPL games. F1 is a mainstay on the Speed channel.


And yes, Nascar is irrelevant not just in Europe but anywhere else around the world except North America and Mexico.
There is a reason why Formula 1 races are spread throughout the WHOLE world and have drivers from every continent of the planet.
A few years ago Germany had this race track build to attract american racecar series like Nascar and other open wheel racing. It became infamous when Alex Zanardi had this horrible crash but ultimately the Lausitz Ring did not spark any interest in German viewership when they realized IRL is simply extreme oval racing. Nascar would be made fun of and rightfully so if it ever became a blip on the European Motorsports radar. It has the reputation of being a graveyard of aging F1 drivers (Jacques Villesneuve) or underachieving, hyped Drivers (JP Montoya).


For the topic at hand.

Overall I think the United States ARE the best sports nation. Spain is great when it comes to most team sports but Americans seem to be the better individual athletes.
I am a Spaniard living in the US so I think I have a pretty good idea when it comes to this topic.

Lastly, two things.. whoever mentioned the Winter Olympics in regards to Spain being bad. Does the person know how much snow falls in Spain outside of the Sierra Nevada?

And finally anyone who mentions Baseball on a sports forum loses any credibility.
Sumo Wrestlers are overall better athletes than Baseball players and create more action in a single bout than 20 consecutive baseball games. The fact that double headers exist in baseball should tell you that it is not very physical.
I don't call professional darting a sport either.

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02-16-2012, 01:39 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MrAlfie View Post
And finally anyone who mentions Baseball on a sports forum loses any credibility.
Sumo Wrestlers are overall better athletes than Baseball players and create more action in a single bout than 20 consecutive baseball games.

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02-16-2012, 05:38 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
In my opinion, as a rule of thumb, there should be a pretty much basic consensus as far as "internationally relevant" sports. In other words, sports that actually matter under certain criteria.

This criteria in my opinion are: A) actual competitiveness of the sport, (more than 1 geographical area of competitive nations/athlete) B) international popularity of the sport (actual following/practice in more than 1 geographic area)

The sports that fit this criteria in my opinion are as following:

TEAM SPORTS:

1-Soccer/other derivatives ie. indoor/beach
2-Basketball
3-Rugby
4-Cricket
5-Hockey/other derivatives ie. field/inline
6-Volleyball/other derivative =beach
7-Baseball
Baseball is popular in 1 geographical area plus two countries. Same with ice hockey. Does that really make these sports more "international" than handball? I don't think it does. Handball probably still has more competitive countries than baseball and ice hockey put together, where these countries are located does not seem very relevant to me.

also, lol @ field hockey being a derivative of ice hockey

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02-16-2012, 07:30 AM
  #40
Panteras
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
Baseball is popular in 1 geographical area plus two countries. Same with ice hockey. Does that really make these sports more "international" than handball? I don't think it does. Handball probably still has more competitive countries than baseball and ice hockey put together, where these countries are located does not seem very relevant to me.

also, lol @ field hockey being a derivative of ice hockey
Well it is relevant because the more spread out the more global appeal the sport seems to have...I don't know about handball actually having more competitive teams than baseball for example. Baseball has north America (includes Mexico), the Caribbean islands of Cuba, Dominican republic, puerto Rico, in south America Venezuela in central America Nicaragua, in Asia Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, and in Europe Holland.

Of course other teams do go to the baseball world cup otherwise known as the world baseball classic, but out of all the teams I mentioned with exception of Nicaragua and Taiwan are competitive, I don't know how you can say handball has more competitive teams than baseball and hockey put together..I mean baseball is an Olympic sport I don't recall handball being one Ok so you think it's funny that field is derived from ice, ok maybe vice versa, fact is they are derivatives of each other/sister sports unless you think field was derived from chess?

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02-16-2012, 08:33 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
Well it is relevant because the more spread out the more global appeal the sport seems to have...
But baseball is popular in a dozen countries if that, and completely irrelevant everywhere else. That's my point: just because these countries are at opposite ends of the world does not increase the sport's global appeal in the least. Venezuela being good at it does not increase its popularity in Argentina.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
I don't know about handball actually having more competitive teams than baseball for example. Baseball has north America (includes Mexico), the Caribbean islands of Cuba, Dominican republic, puerto Rico, in south America Venezuela in central America Nicaragua, in Asia Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, and in Europe Holland.
Holland is not really competitive from what I can see and it's hardly even "in Europe" either since most of the players seem to be from the Dutch Antilles.
So the countries you listed is really just one region plus two countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
I don't know how you can say handball has more competitive teams than baseball and hockey put together. I mean baseball is an Olympic sport I don't recall handball being one
What? Of course handball is an olympic sport
Baseball on the other hand has been dropped from the Games, with lack of international competitiveness being one of the reasons.


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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
Ok so you think it's funny that field is derived from ice, ok maybe vice versa, fact is they are derivatives of each other/sister sports unless you think field was derived from chess?
Yeah but then rugby is derived from football and you still listed them separately.

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02-16-2012, 08:42 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaaaB's View Post
Actually, Lacrosse is played by almost all European and Asian countries as well as Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Argentina and Costa Rica.

Yes, I know what Handball is. It's a sport that has very little popularity outside of Europe. I'd definitely say it's more popular worldwide then Lacrosse is but not by a whole lot. It's actually kind of like Lacrosse but without sticks and a lot less physical.
Lol, I live in New Zealand, there's no way you're using New Zealand in an argument of countries that play Lacrosse Most people here wouldn't even have the first clue what Lacrosse is.

and I don't want to speak for the Aussies, but having spent a lot of time in Australia, it really seems like they couldn't care less about it either.

and of course I'm not saying that nobody in these countries plays Lacrosse, but it really isn't relevant at all.


Last edited by Morozov: 02-16-2012 at 08:51 AM.
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02-16-2012, 11:09 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
Ok, so, I was watching today the Futsal (Indoor soccer) European Championship Final...ok, no biggie, only thing is, it was Spain vs Russia, and Spain won, apparently for the 6th time, and then it hit me.....wow, wtf, is it me or does it just seems like almost any sport you see either Spain or a Spaniard is involved in it or winning it...since when did Spain have this turn-around? They have to be one of, if not the most successful sporting country in the past 5 years or so...

Current world soccer champs (2010), euro soccer champs (2008), euro basketball champs the last two competitions, won the basketball world championship in 2006, basketball runners up in 2008 olympics, handball world champions 2005

one of the greatest tennis players of all times, Formula 1 champion, moto gp champion, cyclist champion (currently said to have taken steroids) ......and this all seems to have come in the past couple of years, spread out in a myriad of sports

what do you guys think?

You're citing a lot of past and regional accomplishments for Spain to be considered the *current* best sporting nation. To me, Spain's top three sports to hang it's hat on:

* Soccer (#1 in FIFA rankings)
* Basketball (#2 in FIBA rankings behind the U.S.)
* Tennis (#2 ranked men's player in Nadal and 6 in the top 30)

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02-16-2012, 11:20 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by MrAlfie View Post
And finally anyone who mentions Baseball on a sports forum loses any credibility.
Sumo Wrestlers are overall better athletes than Baseball players and create more action in a single bout than 20 consecutive baseball games. The fact that double headers exist in baseball should tell you that it is not very physical.
I don't call professional darting a sport either.
This is quite possibly the most ridiculous comment I've ever seen on these boards and that's saying a lot.

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02-16-2012, 11:27 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
Lol, I live in New Zealand, there's no way you're using New Zealand in an argument of countries that play Lacrosse Most people here wouldn't even have the first clue what Lacrosse is.

and I don't want to speak for the Aussies, but having spent a lot of time in Australia, it really seems like they couldn't care less about it either.

and of course I'm not saying that nobody in these countries plays Lacrosse, but it really isn't relevant at all.
I said they play Lacrosse in NZ which they do. Otherwise, why would the New Zealand Lacrosse Association exist?

I never said anything about how popular it is.

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02-16-2012, 02:43 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
Well it is relevant because the more spread out the more global appeal the sport seems to have...I don't know about handball actually having more competitive teams than baseball for example. Baseball has north America (includes Mexico), the Caribbean islands of Cuba, Dominican republic, puerto Rico, in south America Venezuela in central America Nicaragua, in Asia Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, and in Europe Holland.

Of course other teams do go to the baseball world cup otherwise known as the world baseball classic, but out of all the teams I mentioned with exception of Nicaragua and Taiwan are competitive, I don't know how you can say handball has more competitive teams than baseball and hockey put together..I mean baseball is an Olympic sport I don't recall handball being one Ok so you think it's funny that field is derived from ice, ok maybe vice versa, fact is they are derivatives of each other/sister sports unless you think field was derived from chess?
Countries that are either what you could call competitive or good enough to not get steamrolled by the best nations at WCs or ECs include Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Ukraine, Russia, Romania, Hungary, Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Germany, France, Spain, Iceland, Poland, Argentina, Brazil, South Korea (NB some might only be competitive on the mens or womens side). Some of the listed countries can definitely be argued for and against though, but it reflect my opinion on the matter.

That's 21 countries, not much under Icehockey and baseball lumped together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaaaB's View Post
I said they play Lacrosse in NZ which they do. Otherwise, why would the New Zealand Lacrosse Association exist?

I never said anything about how popular it is.
That is like using UAE as an argument that Icehockey as a worldwide played sport.

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Old
02-16-2012, 02:58 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Yet they still watch it (see soccer board for climbing ratings for EPL/UCL games and USA World Cup games).
I don't know anything about EPL/UCL ratings, but as far as World Cup games, Americans will watch any international event that big. Phelps became celebrity because millions of people tuned in to watch him swim. How many have seen him participate in a non-Olympic swimming event?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
And not a blip was heard of it in Finnish sports media. Seriously, if it's not an Olympic sport, it's meaningless. Eurosport's been around for over 20 years and although it's been out of free cable for some years where I live, I can't remember a single time they had lacrosse on. Considering how starved they are for sporting events these days, that's telling.
If we're just looking at Olympic sports, all you have to do is count medals and there's your answer.

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02-16-2012, 03:25 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by DaaaaB's View Post
This is quite possibly the most ridiculous comment I've ever seen on these boards and that's saying a lot.
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
Oh really is it? Any person who is completely neutral on both of these "Sports" and watches, oh lets say 5 Baseball matches and 5 Sumo Wrestling Tournaments (Sumo in Japan/Asia, Sumo in Europe looks quite frankly ridiculous when guys wear biker shorts under their Mawashi) for the first time will be more entertained by Sumo than by Baseball. The reserved Japanese crowd even goes as the match goes which isn't exactly the case in Baseball. People don't watch baseball for the action value, it gets them out of the house to hang out in a stadium or it just gives them a good excuse to drink beer at home. Hardly anybody ever pays attention to the game unless somebody scores and that is the ultimate deal breaker. If you can't get excited for a sport unless somebody scores then it is simply boring.

I haven't watch Sumo in a long time now, I used to when I had access to Eurosport Germany and it is something that everyone can get into and appreciate once a person gets over the giggle factor (teehee, they are fat!).

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02-16-2012, 03:26 PM
  #49
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Countries that are either what you could call competitive or good enough to not get steamrolled by the best nations at WCs or ECs include Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Ukraine, Russia, Romania, Hungary, Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Germany, France, Spain, Iceland, Poland, Argentina, Brazil, South Korea (NB some might only be competitive on the mens or womens side). Some of the listed countries can definitely be argued for and against though, but it reflect my opinion on the matter.

That's 21 countries, not much under Icehockey and baseball lumped together.
Didn't Tunisia and Egypt reach the last 4 at the WCs a few years ago?

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02-16-2012, 04:27 PM
  #50
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Didn't Tunisia and Egypt reach the last 4 at the WCs a few years ago?
I forgot about those two, I had this nagging feeling that there was someone in Northern African, but I couldn't remember who. But yeah, Tunisia finished 4th in 2005. Tunisia seems like a bit of a one-hit wonder playing at home that year, but the seem to quite consistently place around 15th place. Egypt on the other hand had a big of a golden generation in the late 90's and early 2000's, but they have fallen to a level around Tunisia.

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